Feedback [Feedback] - Virtual Future - Part 1

[Addonexus]

how much coins and supplies is the pay XX coins and XX supplies quest?

 

[xivarmy]

Personally I think Hovers should have either their Reactive Armor or their stealth removed. The two abilities combined are much too potent. When Future Era was the final age it was alright, because Rail Guns were still prevalent as a solid counter to them. Now, they're always going to take at least 3 hits to destroy like any other unit with Reactive Armor, but unlike those other units it's also required to actually be able to attack them first. Inno designs new units in something of a vacuum, wherein they only compare units of the same age when designing new ones. There isn't going to be a new unit released specifically designed to counter the Hover Tank, because it's not a Virtual Future unit. It's also pretty unlikely that they do go back and change them, but they did do similar with Rail Guns once upon a time so I'm still holding out hope for it.

I don't really think nerfing hover tanks is a great idea. Inside their own age they're already one of the weakest units - their stealth only mattering vs spotters and champs and otherwise they're unexceptional - losing stealth would leave them flat out inferior to exoskeletals. Losing reactive might not hurt much but i don't think that'd be enough to stop hover-mania in later ages without proper stealth counters.

It'd be far easier to design a unit that just outright obliterates them... Something that :
a) counters stealth
b) doesn't have a counterpart stealing its possible positions because of 2 of each unit types in the age
c) has sufficient defenses that rogue soak and then wipe it out isn't a good answer

come to think of it all this would require is adding blast to ronin bot. and given that it's supposed to counter ranged and the ranged units have stealth in trees, that wouldn't even feel out of place.

 

[DeletedUser3741]

how much coins and supplies is the pay XX coins and XX supplies quest?

800000 coins and 800000 suplies

 

[DeletedUser8150]

I don't really think nerfing hover tanks is a great idea. Inside their own age they're already one of the weakest units - their stealth only mattering vs spotters and champs and otherwise they're unexceptional - losing stealth would leave them flat out inferior to exoskeletals. Losing reactive might not hurt much but i don't think that'd be enough to stop hover-mania in later ages without proper stealth counters.

It'd be far easier to design a unit that just outright obliterates them... Something that :
a) counters stealth
b) doesn't have a counterpart stealing its possible positions because of 2 of each unit types in the age
c) has sufficient defenses that rogue soak and then wipe it out isn't a good answer

come to think of it all this would require is adding blast to ronin bot. and given that it's supposed to counter ranged and the ranged units have stealth in trees, that wouldn't even feel out of place.

Agreed. (and also to several posts earlier about Champ its laughably outclassed now and has been for many ages. Needs a major boost to either att or def to make it relevent)

 

[Markus Stormrider]

what will happen to the clouded parts of the original world map? will we get these available (as bonus areas) eventually? or will they remain as they are forever, while new world maps become available?

 

[DeletedUser3536]

Assuming what I've read so far about the units is true, they all, except the Ronins, are crap so far.

Even though Samurai seems to have Contact Skill that retaliates everything except things like Dragon Drones and Scimitars (even though the Skill description says "Always retaliates") and Inno loves to put these little idiots against us in GE plus his 1-Range makes him very vulnerable when attacking, even with Reactive Armour, that fails when you do a Critical Hit.

Ninja sounded good... until I see they have Rapid Deployment. I don't know the terrain randomizations for you, but I rarely get ground with things that favour me (i.e. Forests for them to hide)

Ronin Bot is the one slightly better. Force Field is very annoying to pass through but doable with enough firepower. Glad at least they come first in the Tech Tree

 

[DeletedUser5882]

Quest window not showing the CF bonus for VE goods turned out to be a visual bug only.
I collected a reward in its original number but my stock showed that the correct CF boosted amount had been added.

On the other hand, about SV and BP correlation, I still think BPs are included in that "extra something".
I realized that it was expected to appear in a certain manner to be related to SV aid rewards. However, BPs don't have the animated display the way coins, supplies, goods or diamonds appear in when they are collected from a building or gained as reward from aids. BPs always appear in a pop up window. It is impossible to tell what exactly prompted the BP reward unless it appears right after collecting a certain buildings (SoI) or a reward (GE/quest).

Since I don't have any other GBs or special building that would boost the BP count, and the appearing of BPs from aidings has noticeably dropped since SV "malfunctioned" (Day 1 - 0 BPs, Day 2 - 2 Bps, Day 3 - 1 BP from aiding) I believe BP to be included in the extra something. I was hoping @Zarok Dai or any other admin would explain what that 'extra something' involves as reward but I believe they missed that little request in the sea of messages

 

[Lionhead]

Quest window not showing the CF bonus for VE goods turned out to be a visual bug only.
I collected a reward in its original number but my stock showed that the correct CF boosted amount had been added.

On the other hand, about SV and BP correlation, I still think BPs are included in that "extra something".
I realized that it was expected to appear in a certain manner to be related to SV aid rewards. However, BPs don't have the animated display the way coins, supplies, goods or diamonds appear in when they are collected from a building or gained as reward from aids. BPs always appear in a pop up window. It is impossible to tell what exactly prompted the BP reward unless it appears right after collecting a certain buildings (SoI) or a reward (GE/quest).

Since I don't have any other GBs or special building that would boost the BP count, and the appearing of BPs from aidings has noticeably dropped since SV "malfunctioned" (Day 1 - 0 BPs, Day 2 - 2 Bps, Day 3 - 1 BP from aiding) I believe BP to be included in the extra something. I was hoping @Zarok Dai or any other admin would explain what that 'extra something' involves as reward but I believe they missed that little request in the sea of messages

As far as I know, the spawning of BP´s has nothing to do with SV. SV should work almost like a WW. Only fp´s are not including in that "something" extra. To me it seems, that even the distriution between the available "something extra´s" are very similar to WW.
Besides, we have RFP to increase the spawning of BP´s.

 

[DeletedUser5882]

Besides, we have RFP to increase the spawning of BP´s

Yes, that is true. Only I don't have it.

As far as I know, the spawning of BP´s has nothing to do with SV. SV should work almost like a WW.

WWs have icons on top revealing what they might give, and when collecting we see the items we got quite clearly along with their count. Even if there were BPs coming out of them, we would know because the BP would appear immediately after collecting from WWs. However, SV description says "something extra" while aiding. And we do get BPs normally while aiding so it makes sense if the "extra" part applies to something that we are already receiving from that action!
But I may have been wrong all along and the increase in BP appearing may have been the result of some other factors I am not aware of and that the sudden decrease just when SV started to malfunction may have been all some weird coincidence or a dysfunction related to the VE update !

Therefore I am looking forward to receiving an explanation from our admins that will once and for all clear this SV bonus confusion. I don't mind being wrong! But I do mind giving inaccurate information about a feature that I have no way of finding its true content aside from estimations based on personal "long time observations" which of course has no validity as a proper source.

 

[Lionhead]

Yes, that is true. Only I don't have it.


WWs have icons on top revealing what they might give, and when collecting we see the items we got quite clearly along with their count. Even if there were BPs coming out of them, we would know because the BP would appear immediately after collecting from WWs. However, SV description says "something extra" while aiding. And we do get BPs normally while aiding so it makes sense if the "extra" part applies to something that we are already receiving from that action!
But I may have been wrong all along and the increase in BP appearing may have been the result of some other factors I am not aware of and that the sudden decrease just when SV started to malfunction may have been all some weird coincidence or a dysfunction related to the VE update !

Therefore I am looking forward to receiving an explanation from our admins that will once and for all clear this SV bonus confusion. I don't mind being wrong! But I do mind giving inaccurate information about a feature that I have no way of finding its true content aside from estimations based on personal "long time observations" which of course has no validity as a proper source.

https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/feedback-arctic-future-part-4.6674/page-4

See post #70.

 

[V3ntr]

I don't want to be a devil's advocate here but have ONE very stupid (or not?) question.

Cryptocurrency is a neat example of good work

Sincer we go to virtual future - wow, great, player one, blade runner style buildings etc.
My concern is:
1. How do we fight virtual units with our onw real units - how hoover tank enter virtual rteality and fight virtual samurai there?
2. How can a virtual future unit come out to be real to hurt my hoover tank?

3 This might also come to GB's or other bonuses - maybe in virtual world they would not be so strong as in physical? Or not work at all? That could make sense. Or we will end up with ton's of % bonuses added to units just to pose any challenge at all.

Wouldn't it be "natural" to separate both worlds - so you can not fight virtual units with real units and vice versa?
Or I am missing something?

Could some dev's explain how did it happen? Just being curious

PS. In case if you could (depending on explanation) VF uniots could cause damage to physical units but not other way.

 

[DeletedUser5882]

See post #70.

Thank you. Did check it.

Possible rewards are similar to those you can receive from the Wishing Well. I believe the only item that is excluded are the FPs (so you can get everything but FPs) but I'm not 100% sure. Will double check.

It seems even thephantom is not sure about the rewards here. He says possible rewards are similar to the ones we get from WWs. But he also states that as far as he knows only fps are excluded. That one is true. But his explanation is inconclusive.

I checked a few pages forward and found that he had an additional reply to the question.

Just to confirm the possible rewards are coin, supplies, goods, medals, and diamonds.

I believe this one is conclusive

 

[DeletedUser8859]

what will happen to the clouded parts of the original world map? will we get these available (as bonus areas) eventually? or will they remain as they are forever, while new world maps become available?

Being unlocked sometime in the future as a bonus quests like the Barbatrians leading to the Monastery is the logical thought for those areas, but until an official announcement nobody knows.

 

[Takethat]

Mmmm .. What's the point of a New unit with the contact skill and 1 in range ? Anyway even without Contact, a melee only unit without tremendous firepower/defense or overpowered skills won't be of much use. Hope this will be fixed or that unit is as good as dead.

 

[qaccy]

I don't really think nerfing hover tanks is a great idea. Inside their own age they're already one of the weakest units - their stealth only mattering vs spotters and champs and otherwise they're unexceptional - losing stealth would leave them flat out inferior to exoskeletals. Losing reactive might not hurt much but i don't think that'd be enough to stop hover-mania in later ages without proper stealth counters.

It'd be far easier to design a unit that just outright obliterates them... Something that :
a) counters stealth
b) doesn't have a counterpart stealing its possible positions because of 2 of each unit types in the age
c) has sufficient defenses that rogue soak and then wipe it out isn't a good answer

come to think of it all this would require is adding blast to ronin bot. and given that it's supposed to counter ranged and the ranged units have stealth in trees, that wouldn't even feel out of place.

With the Hover Tank's current abilities, every unit that is released is going to be compared to it. Any unit that is dead before it's able to reliably reach and take them out, which still requires 3 attacks, is going to be essentially obsolete. Even if the Ronin got Blast, if none of the other VF units have something to handle them, then they're still going to be just as effective as they currently are. Hover Tanks need to be toned down. It's long overdue.

 

[DeletedUser8859]

Why toning down Hover Tanks instead of creating the newer units with the right stats / abilities to counter/defeat them since they are from an age superior (or age two times superior) to Hover Tanks?

It is kind of rare than a single Helicopter can defeat 8 Turtles / Medusas no matter the higher ages of these OF units, or their attack bonus. But since other OF units can wipe out the Helicopters easily then that's OK. The same thing should be set for Hover Tanks. Hover Tanks with their stealth could retain their advantage over a particular type of units of one or two eras above them, but not over all units of an era two times above them.

Shouldn't by design most units two ages or more above another be powerfull enough to defeat a lower era unit?
Why not designing higher era units right, instead of tonning down the lower era unit?

 

[DeletedUser5097]

I don't want to be a devil's advocate here but have ONE very stupid (or not?) question.

Cryptocurrency is a neat example of good work

Sincer we go to virtual future - wow, great, player one, blade runner style buildings etc.
My concern is:
1. How do we fight virtual units with our onw real units - how hoover tank enter virtual rteality and fight virtual samurai there?
2. How can a virtual future unit come out to be real to hurt my hoover tank?

3 This might also come to GB's or other bonuses - maybe in virtual world they would not be so strong as in physical? Or not work at all? That could make sense. Or we will end up with ton's of % bonuses added to units just to pose any challenge at all.

Wouldn't it be "natural" to separate both worlds - so you can not fight virtual units with real units and vice versa?
Or I am missing something?

Could some dev's explain how did it happen? Just being curious

PS. In case if you could (depending on explanation) VF uniots could cause damage to physical units but not other way.

1.) Both parties are uplouded to a vr battlefield server, this can been seen in GE where both parties (even none-vf units)
are given uplouding animations.
How the hovertank can enter the vr-world is simple. The same way as all the buildings of FoE are made. The data of the
hovertank's skills, construction, etc. will be uplouded in to the VR. Since this is a very advanced VR the hovertank will
act like it's real and the driver will also enter the VR like it is a real place. As you can read in the announchment a high
tech. interface enables this. All together the VR servers making all of this real.

2.) They don't both parties are uplouded to the realm of a VR. Even bronze age units as you can find out when
playing PvP and some one placed no army.

3.) Obtained xp and new ways to battle with advanced tactics skills. While the xp is obtained with a VR this xp
is very real and will help in combat. This doesn't mater it is in the real word or the VR. In the VF both worlds
are very real. Look to our world. FoE or other worlds of games are kinda real for us, we play with it and some
take it very seriouse look to GvG for example. In VF this only became more. In the army and in other sectors
they use advanced simmulation for obtaining new ideas and views. This grants new tactics and knowledge than
can be used in the real world and in the created virtual worlds. This does mean that the obtained bonusses
can be applied on both armies.

And no it's not natural to seperate this worlds. In the VF scenario the worlds are very close together. It doesn't
mater rather it was created or not. Look to the movies Tron and especialy Ready Player One for understanding
this. The actions inside of the VR does impact the real world, as seen in Ready Player One with extreme
advanced high tech. global VR this only opens the doors to a ''new world'' a digital frontier and this will have
impact. The actions of people in both worlds does have impact on each other.
As did said before. Battles take place in the realm of a VR. This can clearly been seen with the animations
of both parties at the start. It's may still possible that caussulties can ocure in this. Deppanding on how far
the tech. is and how real the expirence is. I don't see why they wanted to go so far that if you die in the VR
you also die in RL, that's beyond me, but since this is how FoE works and so the VF gets a sinister touch
in the background... this is also how physical units can die for actions in a VR realm.

At the end of the day I think we shouldn't look into games scientifically accurate. Since this makes this
type of games ways too dark for words.xd Or maybe you should if you like the sinister touch... hmmm
I'm still not sure.

 

[DeletedUser4911]

by introducing terracota army are u thinking on how to balance the gvg bonus defense on the sector??
i mean when u changed the bonus of Aachen Cathedral, Castel del Monte, Statue of Zeus from 5% to 3% ur excuse was
'' balancing changes that will complement the Guild versus Guild feature''
by introducing more attack to the player i dont think u are balacing the gvg ,i think this GB is going to kill the gvg if no balance will be done.

 

[qaccy]

Why toning down Hover Tanks instead of creating the newer units with the right stats / abilities to counter/defeat them since they are from an age superior (or age two times superior) to Hover Tanks?

It is kind of rare than a single Helicopter can defeat 8 Turtles / Medusas no matter the higher ages of these OF units, or their attack bonus. But since other OF units can wipe out the Helicopters easily then that's OK. The same thing should be set for Hover Tanks. Hover Tanks with their stealth could retain their advantage over a particular type of units of one or two eras above them, but not over all units of an era two times above them.

Shouldn't by design most units two ages or more above another be powerfull enough to defeat a lower era unit?
Why not designing higher era units right, instead of tonning down the lower era unit?

I think I can see the point you're trying to make, but that's a bad example. Since the Helicopter has the Flying ability, artillery cannot hit it so a single Helicopter actually can, guaranteed, defeat 8 Turturrets/Medusa because they're completely unable to strike it.

When it comes to Hover Tanks, because of their two abilities it's actually very difficult for any one unit type to pose a significant threat to them. Anything that can't see through stealth must approach until they're directly adjacent, and Hover Tanks are some of the most mobile units in the game, being able to cross water (fun fact: only four out of ten OF units are able to do this) and receive reduced movement costs on most other types of terrain. This makes it very easy for them to outmaneuver a majority of units while still being able to fire upon them with their top-class attack range, whittling down even units that would supposedly have an advantage against them:

Plasmas are the most dangerous post-FE unit for Hovers, as they're able to remain on the far side of the field while firing on them every turn. Hovers have to advance in order to reach them, but this also puts them in range of the other enemy units unless they're able to methodically take them all out by the time they cross over. If not, they'll be taking extra damage from these units by moving into their travel range. The other AF units aren't even close. Dragon Drones, Behemoths, and Surrogates are no threat whatsoever. All fine, as these aren't intended to counter heavy units. Battle Fortresses are certainly annoying to deal with because it's a guaranteed 4-hit kill, and the BF has enough movement to be able to strike on its turn unless the Hover stays at max range. Raiders are only a threat if they're the last unit type remaining, but even then it's still a 3-hit kill for them and advancing to an adjacent tile nullifies their Dug In bonus. Even with a so-called bonus against heavy units, the Raider often falls before its target does.

For OF, without the presence of a long-range stealth detector, it's even easier for Hovers. Until the release of the Scimitar, they really had nothing to fear. Crabs are outranged and non-threatening even for units it has bonuses against; the Medusa gets its first turn and then it's a sitting duck in the middle of the field, having pretty lackluster defense for something that was originally advertised as having 'wonderful shields'; the Manta has no trouble closing in, but it's no problem at all to swarm one or two of them down before they make it across as the other units they're with lag behind and line up to be taken out in subsequent turns; Subs are able to trade blows fairly well, but it's still 3 attacks for them like any other unit while the Hover has the potential to take them out in two; the rest of the OF units save for one are never going to stand a chance against them either. The Scimitar doesn't worry about retaliation, has very few movement challenges, and very strong heavy bonuses. This is the only unit that's most likely going to come out on top in a matchup against Hovers.

Anyway, above all else: Why are these comparisons even necessary? No other FE unit is still relevant, having been outclassed and replaced by something else if not from AF, definitely OF. They've all been rendered obsolete. The Hover Tank has not, and it really cannot due to its abilities. Unless Inno brings back Power Shot for a new unit, but that's just going to create a new all-powerful unit until it's eventually brought in line as well like the Rail Gun was.

 

[xivarmy]

Anyway, above all else: Why are these comparisons even necessary? No other FE unit is still relevant, having been outclassed and replaced by something else if not from AF, definitely OF. They've all been rendered obsolete. The Hover Tank has not, and it really cannot due to its abilities. Unless Inno brings back Power Shot for a new unit, but that's just going to create a new all-powerful unit until it's eventually brought in line as well like the Rail Gun was.

I'm on board with hovers are too good in the ages above them... Just not that it's the hover's fault. I rather blame it on too many of the new age units being poorly designed and/or too dependant on special abilities the AI doesn't know to use right. Maybe losing reactive 4 wouldn't be the end of the world in FE - it'd primarily make exoskeletals a bigger threat to them which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but i don't think it'd be a complete solution past FE either. Losing stealth would make the hover useless in FE without an accompanying buff to their ability to ignore spotters and other hovers for some reason (the only thing you use them for regularly in that age).

I mean the fact that it dies to a hover tank certainly isn't the ONLY complaint we typically have about new units now. They're often boring or flat out bad ignoring that. I thought we'd learned the lesson that in later ages range 1 units have to be rather exceptional to be used at all via drone swarms being POS in FE. And yet one of the 3 new units we're supposed to be excited about in VF is range 1, and the only help it has for the fact its going to eat retaliations is that it has contact that'll only work against its clones, and reactive armor 4 which will allow it to soak up one more hit maybe - which it'll often be taking anyways from retaliation! It's like giving us dragon breath units and them not being entirely useless has led them to the bold conclusion : what if we took away dragon breath and tried to make range 1 units again. People like contact and reactive armor right? That should be enough!

How many of the 10 OF units do you actually use? What if you refused to use hovers, would that number change much? Is the problem really hovers or is it that so many of the units don't pose enough of a threat because of stat limitations or have stupid enough AI that taking 4-5 shots to kill them isn't a problem?

Railguns were too good in their own age in addition to being too good above it before they were nerfed. Hovers are not in the same position and any adjustment to them needs to be more careful. And that's ignoring the backlash they got over the well deserved railgun nerf.