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Feedback [Feedback] - Virtual Future - Part 1

  • Thread starter Retired Community Manager
  • Start date
I'm on board with hovers are too good in the ages above them... Just not that it's the hover's fault. I rather blame it on too many of the new age units being poorly designed and/or too dependant on special abilities the AI doesn't know to use right. Maybe losing reactive 4 wouldn't be the end of the world in FE - it'd primarily make exoskeletals a bigger threat to them which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but i don't think it'd be a complete solution past FE either. Losing stealth would make the hover useless in FE without an accompanying buff to their ability to ignore spotters and other hovers for some reason (the only thing you use them for regularly in that age).

I mean the fact that it dies to a hover tank certainly isn't the ONLY complaint we typically have about new units now. They're often boring or flat out bad ignoring that. I thought we'd learned the lesson that in later ages range 1 units have to be rather exceptional to be used at all via drone swarms being POS in FE. And yet one of the 3 new units we're supposed to be excited about in VF is range 1, and the only help it has for the fact its going to eat retaliations is that it has contact that'll only work against its clones, and reactive armor 4 which will allow it to soak up one more hit maybe - which it'll often be taking anyways from retaliation! It's like giving us dragon breath units and them not being entirely useless has led them to the bold conclusion : what if we took away dragon breath and tried to make range 1 units again. People like contact and reactive armor right? That should be enough!

How many of the 10 OF units do you actually use? What if you refused to use hovers, would that number change much? Is the problem really hovers or is it that so many of the units don't pose enough of a threat because of stat limitations or have stupid enough AI that taking 4-5 shots to kill them isn't a problem?

Railguns were too good in their own age in addition to being too good above it before they were nerfed. Hovers are not in the same position and any adjustment to them needs to be more careful. And that's ignoring the backlash they got over the well deserved railgun nerf.

I largely agree with what is said above. I don't think we should nerf the Hover tank. The solution is a balance to newer units. We don't fully know what the VF units will bring so it's hard to evaluate them yet. So far the new units are lackluster and would be easily defeated by OF units. But new age units being beaten by the age below is not the problem. The problem is that the Hover tank was never balanced against in OF properly. The OF tank is pretty terrible stats wise and it's the only unit in the age that can fight against stealth units. The medusa can too but rapid deployment renders the unit useless. Rapid deployment can be interesting to use as a defense but even 8 medusas would quickly go down to 1 Hover tank and 7 rogues. A unit using Rapid deployment needs to be able to withstand a tremendous amount of damage or hide. Medusa does neither. Had the OF tank not been so completely terrible both in terms of attack and defense and movement it would have stood as a good counter to Hover tank and then we would not be talking about the need to nerf the hover tank.

Inno should look at the units that they are releasing for VF and consider changing their stats. Giving one of them blast and getting rid of the range 1 unit would go a long way to improving the quality of the VF units and giving a good counter to the Hover tank.
 

DeletedUser7239

Guest
Rather than nerfing the hovers which are well balanced against other FE units focus on improving the newer units

Agree with you, some (i) always think in nerfing, why not improve others units?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Question:
Is promethium still needed for GE negotiations when your in VF?
 

Julian24

Viceroy
For those who think the contact skill is useless wit a range of 1: A normal Unit would only strike back once. The samurai does this every time. Sury, it is not as effective as with an higer range, but it still has a use.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
For those who think the contact skill is useless wit a range of 1: A normal Unit would only strike back once. The samurai does this every time. Sury, it is not as effective as with an higer range, but it still has a use.
a normal later era unit doesn't strike back. because it is out of the range of 1 where it would strike back

and the samurai won't strike back either, not even once
because which unit will attack it from 1 distance ?
none (except another samurai)

but each time it makes his normal attack it gets a strike back
a normal light unit in later eras doesn't take this hit back because it attacks from more than 1 distance

so this Contact is FAKE
it will never be in action

and for those who think it has a use:
please come back after you made ONE fight where a samurai stroke back twice

at least they gave an reactive armor so it survives two attacks to be theoretically (very theoretically) be able to do 2 strike backs
 
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Julian24

Viceroy
and what about scimitar, dragon drones und drone swarms? Don't they have a range of 1? The figthing system was always a rock, paper, scissors game.
 

DeletedUser8989

Guest
Bonjour
quelle ressource utilise-t-on pour s'installer dans gvg?
Je vous remercie
 

DeletedUser

Guest
and what about scimitar, dragon drones und drone swarms?
drone swarm is terrible: nobody will use it against VF units
in OF GE I use combat drones one era earlier but never those drone swarms

and scimitar and dragon drones don't take strike backs
you know that dragon breath beats contact ?
no retaliation doesn't take retaliation from contact

in other words
a samurai will NEVER strike back against scimitar and dragon drones
 
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MagicMiam

Steward
Bonjour
quelle ressource utilise-t-on pour s'installer dans gvg?
Je vous remercie
Translation : "Hello, what resources are used to settle in GvG ?"

Awnser : There is no GvG map ni VF, just as it was before. The All Ages map is the last one, and it requires medals.
En français : Il n'y a pas de carte GcG pour le Futur Virtuel, la dernière carte est Tous les Ages et on paye avec des médailles comme avant.
 

DeletedUser5097

Guest
For those who think the contact skill is useless wit a range of 1: A normal Unit would only strike back once. The samurai does this every time. Sury, it is not as effective as with an higer range, but it still has a use.
If they did have stealth you are right. Stealth would force units to strike this next to
it. This is not the case.;)
is it confirmed that the gb gives future goods??
This is false; the GB gives +2% att/def. of base stats of the attacking and defending army units, no other
bonus.
Rather than nerfing the hovers which are well balanced against other FE units focus on improving the newer units
Agreed, if I read the other posts about this I come to the conclussion that a VF unit with
the blast skill combined with a good range can be helpfull. A better skill would be a new
skill that ignores stealth and (may) makes stealth target visible for all units for 1 turn. Simelar
with how Poisen works but than against stealth temporary. Once I did suggest this type of
skill for a new artil. unit but a normal unit with this skill in VF with nice defences would also
be able to do the trick. The unit would enable new tactics against stealth units, but would not
be OP since still other units could handle it well and would not get hurt by the skill.
A other possible skill would be a skill to just ignore reactive armor (as many times suggested
by many players) combined with something that cancels revenge damage would be a very
strong unit against Hover.

Sort possible skills to solve Hover mania:
* A skill that (may) makes stealth targets visible (for 1 turn)
* Blast on a unit combined with a good range
* Possible a unit that ignores reactive armor and possible ignores stealth/cancels revenge damage
 

DeletedUser5097

Guest
I think he meant in general the gbs that produce goods.... like fod and rfp, do they produce future goods in VF?
Oh on that way, thanks I'm sorry for misunderstanding.;) I thought it was about the VR GB.:p At the
moment goods producing GB's producing in VF Future era goods.
 

DeletedUser8273

Guest
there is a two problems in AF and OF from my view:
hover tank (HT) and champion
HT problem in OF is that only crab can fight , but crab has less range than HT
champions sucks in all era's above FE. so what if champions will get ability to ignore stealth?
 

qaccy

Emperor
@xivarmy I personally think there's very strategic gameplay involved in all the interactions between OF units. And it's not very unreasonable to expect that if something is performing beyond intention, that the solution is to bring it back in line. This happens all the time in other games. Balance at the top is what developers tend to focus on in games with progressive content. Anywhere else, the focus is on fixing bugs that may pop up and, yes, preventing lower-level abilities/items/whatever from being too prevalent at the top. For instance, look at a game like World of Warcraft. If you received a special quest item at level 40 or so that ended up having some significant effect in max-level instanced content, you can bet that Blizzard would take steps to disable that item's effects rather than simply tuning everything else to account for it, even if they wanted to expect that every player has access to and is using said item. Why should it be any different here?
 

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
@xivarmy I personally think there's very strategic gameplay involved in all the interactions between OF units. And it's not very unreasonable to expect that if something is performing beyond intention, that the solution is to bring it back in line. This happens all the time in other games. Balance at the top is what developers tend to focus on in games with progressive content. Anywhere else, the focus is on fixing bugs that may pop up and, yes, preventing lower-level abilities/items/whatever from being too prevalent at the top. For instance, look at a game like World of Warcraft. If you received a special quest item at level 40 or so that ended up having some significant effect in max-level instanced content, you can bet that Blizzard would take steps to disable that item's effects rather than simply tuning everything else to account for it, even if they wanted to expect that every player has access to and is using said item. Why should it be any different here?

It's not like one item being at full power is key to your WoW levelling experience - you still have your full regular character kit of skills which form the core of your toolkit. Unit types ARE the toolkit though. Hover tanks as it stands do have a key role in FE GE, albeit a somewhat limited niche one. It's also a very fragile one as they have poor stats, just good abilities for countering one common unit (Spotters). Take away the abilities and FE is down to Railguns and Exoskeletals and TE Combat Drones with the other 3 age appropriate units being useless 90% of the time. Drone Swarms are bad. Spotters are weak on offense usually due to poor stats and only annoying to exoskeletals on defense. And now you want to turn hover tanks into another spotter because inno can't design compelling top end units to save their life. This would make FE perhaps the least interesting, most attrition-oriented age of all by far.

My current summary of OF units (without using hovers)
Crabs : Only good as reliable eel counters - scimitars replaced this duty. Free turturret kills on defense.
Octopods : Free turturret kills on defense. Can't think of an offensive role they're ideal for.

Mantas : Easy kills for subs or turturrets that outrange them. Never found a use for them on offense where they're actually better than subs. Unable to counter eels properly, and Crabs/Octopods are already countered better by artillery.
Scimitars : One of the options to mix with turturrets if your primary concern is killing off a few eels. Range 1 limits their use though because they have to move into danger to do their job often. Vulnerable to ranged units of the age. On defense they charge forward too far on the first turn allowing the attacker to engage in mini-waves in the battle.

Subs : Staple Unit on offense that is also good at attrition on defense. Only weakness on offense as the artillery partner is stealth (eels) - and that's not necessarily that bad as they at least reliably retaliate against the eels, unlike the manta that's supposed to be good against them but isn't.
Nautilus : Subs useless cousin that merely dilutes their pool on defense. Technically survives better against low attack units but stupid AI causes them to often do nothing in many fights as they just keep hanging back. Against high boost OF enemies the force field is worthless and you may as well run subs.

Eels : All or none. Does not mix well with others for the most part. They have to get in range of the crabs, eat retaliation from subs, initial blows from medusas which makes the number of fights they're ideal for low. But they have high stats and 8 eels can beat most things messily. One of my mainstays for attacking the hood and DAs in AA GvG.
Gliders : Useful in extreme artillery waves but those aren't terribly common. Not strong enough to cope with most unit types. Special 'Swarm' defense ability is worthless. Messes up eel AI when they're mixed on defense and makes 8 Fast waves easier to kill (eels won't charge forward and hit because there's another unit type).

Turturrets : Staple Unit with a couple glaring weaknesses. Sheer magnitude of offensive output is usually worth finding ways to make it work. Most likely to be the unit from the age we're talking about still using 3 ages from now.
Medusas : fragile unit that plunks itself down in the front line. On defense you only need to send a matching number of rogues to counter it. On offense I can't think of a use.

Summary: Without touching a single hover tank, i would use lots of turturrets and subs. occasionally scimitars and eels. 4 units out of 10. Furthermore most of the units i don't use also sabotage enemy defenses when they show up by reducing the number of good units they run.

Useful Additives from lower ages :
1) Hover Tanks - tedious but works against everything due to the units that counter stealth having other glaring issues (crab range and low defense, scimitar and medusa vulnerable round 1 placement) and not being present in high enough quantities.
2) Plasma Artillery - as long as there's no fliers in the battle often a better partner for turturrets than scimitars or crabs as they don't have to go into the danger zone to kill eels.
3) Railguns - Yup, they're still there. If there's just one flyer, and otherwise a 'hang back and snipe' group would be ideal, a couple railguns is occasionally a good option. Turturrets have enough offense to burn to tolerate the loss of offense from every-other-turn.
4) Dragon Drones - Stats are so low that it can be hard to make work, but the flying tag allows 8 dragon drones to occasionally be better than 8 scimitars. And they offer more potential offense than gliders due to dragon breath.
 

DeletedUser7942

Guest
Can one list the VF recurrent quests, please ?
Yes, that would be great if someone could do that. Also I am hoping very much they come out with a smaller supplies building, the one in VF1 is 5x6 which pretty much puts and end to doing those 24 hour recurring quests so I'll be stuck in OF until they do.
 
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