Feedback [Feedback] - Oceanic Future Part 6

[DeletedUser]

10 times isn't a formula
it is actually a result (attack / defense = 10 times)

can be correct or wrong

using a different calculation

there are only 2 different calculations
the one which gives a correct result
and the other

These calculations that the community has created and use, roughly match what's already visible in the game. But that does not mean that you are using the same formula as the game.

in other words
the "result" that the attack (including all boost and skills) must be 10 times the defense to have a damage 9-10 is wrong

so why don't you say that in short understanding words which doesn't let room to discuss

but you didn'tdo that
you said: we must only use all boosts/skills

 

[DeletedUser7779]

@thephantom
Since the bug or balancing issue - however you wanna call it - was reproduced, I hope it gets fixed soon. It's not normal a medusa to be able to instant kill a unit, especially an eel because eels have defense boost against them.
I suspect in a few days more complaints will follow when ppl on live servers build medusas and put them in defense in AA gvg. Because most ppl attack with 8 eels.

 

[DeletedUser8859]

Every unit can theoretically one-hit another unit. If they have enough attack compared to the enemy unit's defense (obviously taking into account any boosts, terrain bonuses, ability bonuses, unit vs. bonuses).

That...can't actually be true. Eels have a defensive bonus against artillery, so in no way should the difference be large enough to allow a Medusa to deal 10 damage in one attack to an Eel. At best, maybe the reverse would be true - an Eel taking out a Medusa in one shot, since their attacks are actually stronger against artillery units.

qaccy, next week, when you reach GE Level 3, take a note of the Eels attack / defense stats and the Medusas attack / defense stats on the battle. Then we can workout the numbers, and considering terrain bonus (if the Medusa landed on a good one for her) and special abilities of both units, confirm theoretically if a Medusa can kill an Eel on one shot or not; and then say if what you have seen is an error or not.

 

[DeletedUser]

qaccy, next week, when you reach GE Level 3, take a note of the Eels attack / defense stats and the Medusas attack / defense stats on the battle. Then we can workout the numbers, and considering terrain bonus (if the Medusa landed on a good one for her) and special abilities of both units, confirm theoretically if a Medusa can kill an Eel on one shot or not; and then say if what you have seen is an error or not.

why wait ? you can do it today

eels 0%
medusa 200%

terrain best for medusa
directly next to eel (highest possible blast boost)

now I want to see the way to the result
(not only: result: yes it can but we don't say how)

 

[qaccy]

I actually completely overlooked the fact that Blast gets stronger the closer you are to the unit. In the case of the Medusa's effectively 'infinite' range, that does have a very significant effect. Essentially, a Medusa is always gaining a significant attack bonus due to Blast, even when it starts as far away as possible from the enemy units and is firing on ones that haven't even left the starting position. Is Blast's bonus applied before or after passive military bonuses? I assume after, like terrain bonuses, but I'm unsure. If it's +6 attack for every .67 spaces closer (remember the 1.5 battlefield scale), or +6*military bonus, that's also a very large difference. In the end though, it seems that the result is the Medusa being capable of one-hit killing other units, so any math that's put forth should realize that as the conclusion.

Still doesn't address the inconsistency between the Medusa having 'wonderful shields' (per the OF6 announcement) and having the second-lowest defense out of all OF units, though.

 

[DeletedUser4403]

Still doesn't address the inconsistency between the Medusa having 'wonderful shields' (per the OF6 announcement) and having the second-lowest defense out of all OF units, though.

Pure speculation, but I think Medusa was designed simply as a direct counterpart to the extended use of Hover Tanks. Hovers deal only 1-3 hit points on Medusa even with drastic differences in Hovers attack vs Medusa’s defense bonuses, hence the “wonderful shields” sentiment.
Then the Blast to offset stealth. That’s it. Nothing more was intended. Nothing more was considered. Personal thoughts there...

What you all have discovered is yet another unintended consequence of the devs shortsightedness (Rails, Crystal Villa, Oracle anyone??) that unfortunately continue to plague post release items.

 

[qaccy]

Pure speculation, but I think Medusa was designed simply as a direct counterpart to the extended use of Hover Tanks. Hovers deal only 1-3 hit points on Medusa even with drastic differences in Hovers attack vs Medusa’s defense bonuses, hence the “wonderful shields” sentiment.
Then the Blast to offset stealth. That’s it. Nothing more was intended. Nothing more was considered. Personal thoughts there...

What you all have discovered is yet another unintended consequence of the devs shortsightedness (Rails, Crystal Villa, Oracle anyone??) that unfortunately continue to plague post release items.

The somewhat ironic thing here, though, is that Turturrets still take longer to kill (slightly) than the Medusa does, and they'/re not really very threatening to Hover Tanks if that was their intent. Certainly something to think about, but in light of this interaction with Blast giving the Medusa sky-high attack, it just makes them even worse against units with Reactive Armor because, 200 attack or 1200 attack, a Medusa's still going to take 3 shots to kill a single HT. I still consider Plasma Artillery a bigger threat because they at least start on the opposite end of the field and so often can't even be reached on the first turn, and they have the same base defense value as the Medusa.

I'll end this post by saying this: Isn't it kind of odd that the Rapid Deployment animation for the Medusa is it literally drilling into the ground, yet it doesn't have Dug In? That animation, along with its immobile nature, might make it the single most appropriate unit to have this ability, yet it doesn't have any sort of defensive ability at all. I realize this is probably because no unit has 3 abilities, but c'mon...even the Sub has Dug In and it's not even touching the ground (yet it along with the Manta are also incapable of crossing water, another mystery to me).

 

[DeletedUser8150]

Pure speculation, but I think Medusa was designed simply as a direct counterpart to the extended use of Hover Tanks. Hovers deal only 1-3 hit points on Medusa even with drastic differences in Hovers attack vs Medusa’s defense bonuses, hence the “wonderful shields” sentiment.
Then the Blast to offset stealth. That’s it.

Doesn't work though. I happily used Hovers -v- medusas without problems.

@qaccy: The funny thing is the medusa is less hastle with hovers than the turtle in one key way. I don't have to wait several turns for them to get in range without me manually moving them to stay stealthy

 

[DeletedUser4381]

he doesn't know how it works
that is why he says: it is correct but I don't prove it

because else he would say:
the mistake in your calculation is xy

and that is why he needs to test it
and doesn't calculate what the result should be

That assumes that the inner workings of the calculation are supposed to be known to players. Inno haven't released the formula, and it's pretty clear they have no plans to either release it or even give hints on how it works. Given that, the best that any answer from them will give is that erroneous assumptions are being made.

 

[qaccy]

Alright, now that I've finally got a Blue Galaxy built I've got to say that I'm not the biggest fan of how it functions, considering the game as a whole. I think its bonus is fine, having x% chance at doubling up to y collections, but in practice it can be rather annoying to use. It essentially promotes NOT collecting from any buildings that may be ready to collect in between collecting from the BG and your desired buildings being ready, which is inherently harmful to gameplay or at the very least harmful to the GB. For example, say someone has a Terrace Farm ready in 20 hours that they want to use the BG's bonus on. However, they're currently running other production buildings at 4-hour intervals in order to complete a Daily Challenge. @thephantom Is it intended that the player sometimes has to choose between something like completing a DC requirement and getting the most use out of their Blue Galaxy's bonus? Or is the idea/assumption that most players who'd build this GB would be refreshing their bonus and then immediately collecting from the buildings they want to activate it with? I guess in that light it's really only harmful to those players who don't have all their collection timers in sync with each other.

 

[DeletedUser]

bonus won't work when a GB isn't connected with a road

isn't that a way to control which collections are boosted ?

(only bad because timer stops for next refresh)

 

[thephantom]

@thephantom Is it intended that the player sometimes has to choose between something like completing a DC requirement and getting the most use out of their Blue Galaxy's bonus? Or is the idea/assumption that most players who'd build this GB would be refreshing their bonus and then immediately collecting from the buildings they want to activate it with? I guess in that light it's really only harmful to those players who don't have all their collection timers in sync with each other.

I get your point, but isn't that mainly about strategics for maximizing your output?

For example there are a number of things I do in my city due to similar reasons:
- Since I have St. Mark's I avoid any short-cycle residentials since then I would not get to use the boosts where it makes the most difference.
- If I have unspent attempts for Guild Expedition and a Kraken waiting to be collected, I usually do the attempts first and then collect the Kraken, so that I would have the First Strike for the next (and more difficult) encounters where it matters more.
- If my city productions are ready to be collected, and I have open quests (events, DC), I don't collect all at once but do it gradually as needed by the quests so I complete as many as I can at once and don't have to wait for the next productions.
- Likewise I sometimes postpone aid/tavern visiting when expecting those quests, so that I wouldn't have to wait for the next availability of those actions.

To me all of that's trying to get the most out of my actions. I don't have a Blue Galaxy yet, but if I did have it I wouldn't find it difficult to align its collection with other daily productions that have nice outputs (set buildings, Black Tower, Pillar of Heroes, etc.). Or you can collect it at a different time - you would still get the chances to double collect, it just wouldn't be the biggest potential from your city.

 

[qaccy]

@thephantom Definitely some solid points, which fit right in with what's going on here. The St. Mark's one, though is also somewhat inefficient similar to this one - from a gameplay standpoint, I don't think you're supposed to be leaving 'ready' buildings sitting out because there's a lost opportunity cost involved with that (collecting resources vs not collecting them). Even though you're doing so in order to then acquire a larger bonus elsewhere, it still seems like something of a disconnect between how the game is presented and how the game is played. Ideally, players should always be collecting all resources as soon as they're available and there shouldn't be any direct or indirect penalty for doing so, should there? Because at the most fundamental level, collecting resources as soon as they're available should always be better than leaving them out, or at least this is how I understand the game.

Similar for aiding, if you're waiting to do so due to quests that's pushing back your 24-hour timer on being able to visit again, which can be an inconvenience once real life or some other event occurs which further pushes back your schedule even when you aren't purposely doing it. However, this one is a bit more of a personal choice at least since it should never be impossible to complete a DC's aid/tavern requirement unless you're making your rounds minutes before the new one becomes available or before viewing the tasks for the day.

But all that being said, perhaps I'm the one who's out of touch and overly idealizing things. I guess situations like the above are probably just some of the factors to go along with everything else that make the game more varied, interesting, complex, whatever it is you want to call it. This GB does seem to fall into that category, being something you have to think about to get the most use out of it. Not too much unlike the Dynamic Tower and Voyager V1, I suppose!

 

[DeletedUser8150]

I get your point, but isn't that mainly about strategics for maximizing your output?

For example there are a number of things I do in my city due to similar reasons:
- Since I have St. Mark's I avoid any short-cycle residentials since then I would not get to use the boosts where it makes the most difference.
- If I have unspent attempts for Guild Expedition and a Kraken waiting to be collected, I usually do the attempts first and then collect the Kraken, so that I would have the First Strike for the next (and more difficult) encounters where it matters more.
- If my city productions are ready to be collected, and I have open quests (events, DC), I don't collect all at once but do it gradually as needed by the quests so I complete as many as I can at once and don't have to wait for the next productions.
- Likewise I sometimes postpone aid/tavern visiting when expecting those quests, so that I wouldn't have to wait for the next availability of those actions.

To me all of that's trying to get the most out of my actions. I don't have a Blue Galaxy yet, but if I did have it I wouldn't find it difficult to align its collection with other daily productions that have nice outputs (set buildings, Black Tower, Pillar of Heroes, etc.). Or you can collect it at a different time - you would still get the chances to double collect, it just wouldn't be the biggest potential from your city.

All fair enough points but it can , no matter how well you plan, get pretty disruptive. I had 90 5 minutes tasks, and 12 4 hour tasks together (DC+Event) alongside the usual collect goods coins etc which rather forces you to try to put important collections late in the day which isn't great for things like good value goods aiding from GBs

 

[DeletedUser7779]

There's something really wrong with those medusas, especially when attacking eels.
Here a screenshot from a battle on the continent map.
Please note:

1) medusa a/d boost is 40/40 , my a/d boost is 289/180
2) Eels have defense bonus against medusa
3) Medusa lands far away from my eel and it still does 7 damage to it !!! That's bugged.
As a comparison, on the previous sector I attacked with 8 hovers, medusa landed way closer to me and did only 3 damage.

There's something wrong with the medusa against eel damage calculation imo.

Medusa vs Eel

Spoiler

Medusa vs Hover

Spoiler

EDIT: NormaJeane - 2018-03-10 - Too large image(s), spoiler tags were added. Max size allowed is: 600x480 pixels.​

 

[Prom d Exolandia]

Little feedback on GB Galaxy from live fr forum (thx Gijoe54) :

Back on the new GB The Blue Galaxy after a few days of use:
It is level 19, that is 39% x 7 harvests. I doubled in 3 days and 18 crops : 1 palace, and 1 sanctuary. Fortunately I have doubled a sanctuary, otherwise I would have doubted the interest of said GM
Spent over 5000 FP on it, and looking for plans. 1400 diams also for the initial pose.
I have trouble, right now, to understand the delirium.

Have you other feedback on that GB ?

 

[qaccy]

@zwucki If the HT were actually hit for 3 damage, I'd agree that something may be wrong, but to me that appears to be a 4-damage hit from the Medusa. Since RGs easily hit HTs for 7-8 damage and they're statistically weaker than the Medusa is, I think it's pretty safe to assume that were it not for Reactive Armor, they'd be hitting at least that hard if not even harder.

 

[DeletedUser8150]

@zwucki If the HT were actually hit for 3 damage, I'd agree that something may be wrong, but to me that appears to be a 4-damage hit from the Medusa. Since RGs easily hit HTs for 7-8 damage and they're statistically weaker than the Medusa is, I think it's pretty safe to assume that were it not for Reactive Armor, they'd be hitting at least that hard if not even harder.

Spot on its just reactive armour doing its job. I don't make enough use of 8eel attacks to be really sure if there is an issue. Perhaps making 8eel a bit weaker is no bad thing it did seem to be the go to PvP above and beyond what is balanced.

 

[qaccy]

@Pevsner Eels *are* supposed to be strong against artillery, though. At this point I'm unsure whether the Medusa is intended to be able to essentially kill any unit in two (or even one?) shot. Blast with that much range effectively becomes Power Shot, trading the accompanying Reload 'ability' for being unable to bypass Reactive Armor and Flying. I still don't personally think the Medusa's very good, much too vulnerable, but then again I've had this suspicion for a while that new units are designed to give us a harder time more so than they are to give us more stuff to play with. Like I still think Turturrets are stronger from a player standpoint, but the Medusa is more annoying to face off against, in terms of minimizing damage taken. Stuff like that.

 

[RedRed]

There is a priority order when collectiong with diamonds? f.e.: the blue galaxy it is collected first of other buildings or randomly in amid? Terrace farms?