Feedback [Feedback] - Oceanic Future Part 6

[DeletedUser7779]

Every unit can theoretically one-hit another unit. If they have enough attack compared to the enemy unit's defense (obviously taking into account any boosts, terrain bonuses, ability bonuses, unit vs. bonuses). Easily observable without any bonuses if you use Arctic Future or Oceanic Future units versus Bronze Age units. Gets more difficult to find such a case when the era is the same, but if the attack vs. defense difference of the units in that case is high enough then it could lead to that possibility.

Absolutely agree, though here we're talking about units of the same age. That alone, should be only possible in very extreme cases, maybe when the difference between attack and defense is like 500? My attack/defense boost on live is 289/180, so pretty sure this is not normal. If mods could test that please, I think it was either #35 or #36, it had 3 medusas on first wave and 1 on second.

 

[DeletedUser]

Every unit can theoretically one-hit another unit. If they have enough attack compared to the enemy unit's defense (obviously taking into account any boosts, terrain bonuses, ability bonuses, unit vs. bonuses). Easily observable without any bonuses if you use Arctic Future or Oceanic Future units versus Bronze Age units. Gets more difficult to find such a case when the era is the same, but if the attack vs. defense difference of the units in that case is high enough then it could lead to that possibility.

and practically it needs that the attack is at least 10 times of the defense value
then the damage is 9-10. so it can insta-kill with one hit

with attack 20 times the defense value the damage is 10-10. a sure insta-kill

but it is impossible in the same era that the attack value of the attacker is 10 times the defense value of the defender (including boosts and bonuses)

(not considering Artic Orangery: there the unit only needs to make 7 damage. with 50% that is then 10.
but in GE the enemy doesn't have an AO)

 

[Westeros77]

The damage dealt by the medusa seems to be too strong compared to the attack and defense values. (My defense is much higher than medusa attack but it still makes 7-8 damage to me). Maybe the blast bonus of the medusa is too strong, since it has a range of 100!!, so it always much closer than "normal" range and gets a lot of damage bonus. I don't know if it was intended by the developers or not.

 

[thephantom]

The damage dealt by the medusa seems to be too strong compared to the attack and defense values. (My defense is much higher than medusa attack but it still makes 7-8 damage to me). Maybe the blast bonus of the medusa is too strong, since it has a range of 100!!, so it always much closer than "normal" range and gets a lot of damage bonus. I don't know if it was intended by the developers or not.

The skill bonus is taken into account in the final attack vs defense values, so it does affect the potential damage of course. We'll look into the balancing of that.

 

[DeletedUser]

How is it possible that a medusa can one hit kill my eel?? Just did some GE on lvl 3 on live .. on one encounter I attacked with 8 eels, medusa landed and killed my eel instantly!! Then on second wave , I obviously entered the battle with 7 eels and the medusa one hit killed my eel again!! Needless to say they didn't do critical hits, so what's going on? Im not aware of any unit in game that can one hit kill another?

EDIT: on second wave i went in with 6 eels, not 7. My bad. And those 6 were at full health.

it is still mathematically impossible that they insta-kill an eel
so it must be a bug

eel. no boost (0% !!!!): 150 defense. against artillery another 150. makes 300

level 3GE.medusa have 200% (or near that). makes 630 attack
+50 terrain. and lets take the full 100 range * 6 more damage for each closer
makes a total of 1280 (630 + 50 + 600)

1280 / 300 = 4,3

and as said to insta-kill it needs at least factor of 10

The skill bonus is taken into account in the final attack vs defense values, so it does affect the potential damage of course. We'll look into the balancing of that.

better you find the bug

 

[DeletedUser7239]

it is still mathematically impossible that they insta-kill an eel
so it must be a bug

eel. no boost (0% !!!!): 150 defense. against artillery another 150. makes 300

level 3. they have 200% (or less). makes 630 attack
+50 terrain. and lets take the full 100 range * 6 more damage for each closer
mages a total of 1280 (630 + 50 + 600)

1280 / 300 = 4,3

and as said to insta-kill it needs at least factor of 10


better you find the bug

The skill bonus is taken into account in the final attack vs defense values, so it does affect the potential damage of course. We'll look into the balancing of that.

Do i see another rail gun episode again? Nerfing is the word here so it seems.

 

[RedRed]

We have tested the opposite situation in the live server and a Medusa 211/153 in attack wasn't able to insta-kill a 100/100 eel in defense (except with the help of the orangery)

Wondering how it is possible that a medusa with less than 200 a/d (In my notes I have 125/125 as top boost in GE part 3) can kill a 254/174 eel... imho there is bug more than a balancing issue.

 

[DeletedUser]

if you are facing a medusa that can kill eels with one hit there is an easy solution for that problem in GE
use enough rogues. medusa hits them first
(or flying. then they can't hit)

 

[Markus Stormrider]

Wondering how it is possible that a medusa with less than 200 a/d (In my notes I have 125/125 as top boost in GE part 3) can kill a 254/174 eel... imho there is bug more than a balancing issue.

the gaze of a medusa turns one into stone, therefore it dies

 

[thephantom]

We have tested the opposite situation in the live server and a Medusa 211/153 in attack wasn't able to insta-kill a 100/100 eel in defense (except with the help of the orangery)

Wondering how it is possible that a medusa with less than 200 a/d (In my notes I have 125/125 as top boost in GE part 3) can kill a 254/174 eel... imho there is bug more than a balancing issue.

You've tested 211 attack without any increase from the Blast skill. The skill boost itself is never shown in the tooltip stats, but it's calculated for the attack. Already tested and can insta kill units if I get to land close enough to them.

 

[DeletedUser]

You've tested 211 attack without any increase from the Blast skill. The skill boost itself is never shown in the tooltip stats, but it's calculated for the attack. Already tested and can insta kill units if I get to land close enough to them.

actually the skill boost is shown in my tooltip: it says 6

and how high can the blast skill then be ?

100 range * 6 skill = 600 max

or am I wrong ?

not even close enough for an insta kill of an eel

if you really think it is correct prove it here with a mathematical example
because even if it is not shown it must be calculated

and tested it proves my words: IT IS A BUG
because if it would be correct you would simply calculate it and not test it


because: you tested it. it can happen
I calculated it: it can't happen
ergo; it is a bug: something happen what can't happen if the game calculated it correct

 

[DeletedUser]

Already tested and can insta kill units if I get to land close enough to them.

great
you can reproduce the bug

now fix it

 

[thephantom]

actually the skill boost is shown in my tooltip: it says 6

and how high can the blast skill then be ?

100 range * 6 skill = 600 max

or am I wrong ?

not even close enough for an insta kill of an eel

if you really think it is correct prove it here with a mathematical example
because even if it is not shown it must be calculated

and tested it proves my words: IT IS A BUG
because if it would be correct you would simply calculate it and not test it


because: you tested it. it can happen
I calculated it: it can't happen
ergo; it is a bug: something happen what can't happen if the game calculated it correct

I don't really have to prove anything. Yes, the Blast can lead up to 600 more attack.

great
you can reproduce the bug

now fix it

Great, I already stated we're looking into.

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't really have to prove anything.

if you say the game is working correct then you have to

Yes, the Blast can lead up to 600 more attack.

only those 600

proves that it can't insta-kill

because

not even close enough for an insta kill of an eel

Great, I already stated we're looking into.

not as bug

We'll look into the balancing of that.

because looking it from balancing is really different from looking into as bug

 

[thephantom]

then you have to

Except I literally do not have to do anything. You can see the expected potential damage when the two attack/vs/defense numbers are as such. Just because you've calculated something with a player created formula based on observation doesn't mean you've "debunked" my own observation.

 

[DeletedUser]

Just because you've calculated something with a player created formula

so you say the formula is wrong

lol the cheapest way to sneak out of the problem
I calculated it wrong

Except I literally do not have to do anything.

literally you have to do so much in your life
or else you would be dead faster than you think

 

[thephantom]

so you say the formula is wrong

lol the cheapest way to sneak out of the problem
I calculated it wrong

Don't see any sneaking out, I simply do not think I have to explain anything in more detail. Yes, there's an issue, but it's a balancing one and it's already being reviewed.

Bringing up something to be looked at / double checked based on observations makes perfect sense. But claiming that something is broken because your own formula doesn't provide the same result as the game isn't quite the same. I know how the existing "formula" that was initially put into a simulator by Byeordie came to be, and it's simply based on observation of what the potential damage was in different cases. Nothing wrong in that, on its own, it worked just fine. Except it looks at values of very close range and 80 attack vs 8 defense might be a 10 times difference in attack vs defense, while 1100 vs 500 is barely 2 times of a difference. But the difference between the two is clearly super huge.

All I'm saying at the end is that a hand-made calculation on your own could match the game's calculation in many cases, not in all, and it still doesn't mean that the game has a bug. Because the game's formula is not known and you may not be taking all factors into account that it does.

literally you have to do so much in your life
or else you would be dead faster than you think

But I don't even have to live. I choose to.

 

[DeletedUser8150]

Strange how we all play the same game and yet can see the picture so differently. I've been playing through lvl 4 thinking the Medusa is too weak both in A&D.

@thephantom

"Because the game's formula is not known and you may not be taking all factors into account that it does."

Um? Just to be clear are you suggesting they are not including known parts of the game in their calculation or that there are calculations that affect damage that are not known/hidden to players? Not trying to antagonise just want to be clear.

 

[DeletedUser]

he doesn't know how it works
that is why he says: it is correct but I don't prove it

because else he would say:
the mistake in your calculation is xy

and that is why he needs to test it
and doesn't calculate what the result should be

 

[thephantom]

Um? Just to be clear are you suggesting they are not including known parts of the game in their calculation or that there are calculations that affect damage that are not known/hidden to players? Not trying to antagonise just want to be clear.

I am saying that the currently used calculations by people here are calculations that players have designed. Because the game's official formula is not visible anywhere. These calculations that the community has created and use, roughly match what's already visible in the game. But that does not mean that you are using the same formula as the game.

Therefore if what you're seeing doesn't match what's present in the game, doesn't necessarily mean the game has a bug, it can also be the case that you yourself are using a different calculation.