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Feedback PvP Arena

esoterism

Squire
You try not to understand so we have to be more precise.
The PvP Arena replaces the neighbourhood PvP Towers, this was why they were removed.
That is currently to situation on the BETA version of FOE. You have asked for feedback so that you know whether it should go LIVE or not, that the purpose of a BETA. You have 78 pages of people saying this PvP Arena is not what we want and the PvP Towers should then be restored.
Do you really understand the principle of what a BETA means ?
Only a portion of that feedback is calling for the feature to be removed.
People try to be polite with you and cooperate but when we see that changes does make the feature better, the vast majority of comment is about removal. When we tried to do a poll (that you systematically erased) there was a 90%+ for the removal of the PvP Arena so the PORTION for the removal is BIGGER !!!
Check again if you think the "PORTION" is different !!
Some of you would like to see the Arena removed and the towers reinstated. My latest update was to confirm that this is not on the cards and I'm really sorry that you feel that that equates to not being listened to.
90%+ of your customers (what you call "some of you") are asking for the removal that is the reason why you should RECONSIDER your decision because it is SENSELESS !! and goes against the principle of a Beta. When change is worse than before the change, the change should not occur !!!

it's not possible to both remove the feature and improve it at the same time. For those who feel the only improvement is to remove it, then, in this case, the outcome is disappointing for you.
You should not be stubborn, it is better for anyone (including Inno) to open the eyes and recognize they are on the wrong path before crashing into the wall so that they can stop rather than closing the eyes considering it will hurt less when crashing into the wall !!!

Recommendation = please check what is the size of the "PORTION" of "SOME OF YOU" doing a honest POLL.
 
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Hiep Lin

Viceroy
You have 78 pages of people saying this PvP Arena is not what we want and the PvP Towers should then be restored. Do you understand the principle of what a BETA mean ?

The pvp towers are of no use to me and give me no pleasure.
They can be deleted if they are replaced with better.
For the moment the arena is not better, I wait to see the change.
Abandoning the project and putting back the towers has no interest.
 

Laobhan

Farmer
I am now playing the pvp towers again, I use one rogue, for attacking and one rogue for defence, go in to whatever is 200 points, I figure that as long as I stay under 3001 points I will not lose out on any of the rewards and as Inno have made it so that it if I start creeping up to the next level, it will penalise me to keep me in my correct station in life, (must be owned by the king of siam "Why is your head higher than mine?") it doesn't matter if I try to win or not, I, only have to play one game every week, so I will save my shinny diamonds and not have to buy anymore as I don't need them.
 
Well, it is clear that the "other sources of feedback" are the actual usage data of this feature: how many players are playing in the PvP arena, how often they play, how many attempts they buy, etc.

So if you want to give them feedback they will listen to, stop playing the PvP arena, as I have done, since they clearly don't value this forum feedback.

However, there is a problem with that. As a beta server, the purpose of this server is to test out new features. If you release a bad feature, then ask players for their feedback (which is usage) they will stop using and thus stop testing the feature. But you also ask them to test new features on beta, and by doing so, players are giving untruthful feedback by testing it.

So what's it gonna be, INNO Games? feedback, or testing?
because by ignoring the forum feedback, you can't have both.
 

Julian24

Viceroy
That is currently to situation on the BETA version of FOE. You have asked for feedback so that you know whether it should go LIVE or not, that the purpose of a BETA. You have 78 pages of people saying this PvP Arena is not what we want and the PvP Towers should then be restored.
Do you really understand the principle of what a BETA means ?
The beta server is there to see if a feature is bug free and well accepted. The second one is not really given at the moment, but the beta is NOT too look, if a feature should be implemented or not. Changes will be made if it is not accepted, but new features will never get scrapped.
90%+ of your customers (what you call "some of you") are asking for the removal that is the reason why you should RECONSIDER your decision because it is SENSELESS !!
Where do you get the 90% from? Just because the forum feedback is like 90%+ negative does not mean, that 90%+ want it to be removed. When do you go to the forum? Do you write if you like a feature or if you dislike it? That is the current situation. I think the PvP-Arena in its current state is not good, but where are the thousands of other beta-players complaining here? I only see the same like 5 people writing every day, complaining (which alone is not bad), and insulting @Dudettas (who is doing a great job here!) and the developers (who do a great job most of the time, think about events, gbg, new ages, the new message center and especially the last update 1.185).
Insulting and writing the same every day does not help. It spams this feedback thread and makes it more difficult for Dudettas to forward good and objective feedback.
 
I'm not sure I understand the logic: Inno keeps saying changes are going to be made because people here on the forum want them, BUT they say in the same time that the Arena is a great success according to some mysterious sources. Why do they agree changes are needed if the feedback is so good? How can the players on the forum be wrong when they think the Arena is a failure nobody likes but right when they suggest some changes to make it slightly better?
@Dudettas, sometimes you say that Inno is listening to us and making some of the changes we ask for, and sometimes you say that people complaining about the Arena are a minority and that the Arena is well received. If it is so well received, please let Inno take it to the live servers as it is and don't ask for more feedback here. If they really trust so much their other sources, what are they waiting for?
 

Yekk

Regent
like I said I would wait but I am truly insulted by your comments Dudettas... You are not unbiaised... You do work only for your bosses...shame on you...

It is broken plain and simple. Little changes that insult the player base do not undo that....Putting that your bosses feedback is being considered...fail totally
 

CrashBoom

Legend
so it was long enough to have 10 people voting ? :rolleyes:

LAUNCH AN UNBIASED POLL !!
ingame for all beta players (everybody who starts the game must vote to get into the game)

not only the people of the forum which many only registered to be against something


vote:
- arena should stay. no towers
- arena should stay. but with old towers
- no arena. give us towers back
- no arena. towers also not needed anymore (because they are not PvP but a GBG/GvG grinding tower)

maybe an even more complicated poll
where old towers (in the option where it stays) count all fights or towers are reduced to PvP towers (only counting neighborhood fights)
 
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Thunderdome

Emperor
The PvP Arena replaces the neighbourhood PvP Towers, this was why they were removed.
So, make matching based on neighborhoods, not the whole server!!! Simple as that, right?

Please understand that you are not being ignored and that your feedback is very much valued. Some of the feedback received here on the forum has already been incorporated into the feature, and they are continuing to work on adjustments to the PvP Arena.
When you're gone for days (if not weeks) at a time and your only response was "it's under discussion" for that long amount of time, how do you think we, the beta players, feel?

Some? Only 2 noticeable things I can say were incorporated: 1. The MANUAL battles and 2. The adjustment of the time between attempts (from 4 hours to just 2). The removal of the diamond limit for purchasing attempts wasn't something any player ask here for (or desired). That was something that Inno just pulled out of their German posterior end to put into to satisfy their lust for money (don't know if anyone ever bought diamonds in the beta server; I know I didn't because I get a good amount of diamonds that I save for using on things that really matter... this travesty isn't one of those. Secondly, the little increase in rewards was supposed to make things better? There it is, folks! Sixteen pounds of Monterey Jack and the continent of Australia! The mice won't survive on 16 pounds of cheese. That's how we feel as we're the smart ones.

Whilst there is a lot of feedback on this subject, only a portion of that feedback is calling for the feature to be removed. Some of the feedback seen in this thread has already been incorporated and there are more changes to come. This indicates that your feedback is indeed being considered.
A portion? Were you reading the entire thread? Or, were you just skimming the posts just because it had your name on it (either by @ or someone, like me, just quoted your texts to be responded to accordingly)? If I am not mistaken, there's only a small portion who said they don't care about the feature or towers while an even smaller portion said they don't have a problem with it. However, there's a LARGE portion (or majority of the players for a better example) that called for this feature to be taken out and the towers to be restored. Make the game fun, not a bore that would have a mass exodus.

Changes? A little too late for that. The only change I saw was the silent treatment and censoring from Inno's end (yes, you included) towards the players for weeks on end. All we ever wanted was a little communications, but we didn't get that. I know many will probably tell me to "back off" but I am a bloke that won't do that. You want to change my mind, you get on the ball and you make them come out to address their players and explain themselves. Then and only then we might get some kind of peace.

Some of you would like to see the Arena removed and the towers reinstated. My latest update was to confirm that this is not on the cards and I'm really sorry that you feel that that equates to not being listened to.
Again, they better explain WHY and what were they thinking on removing something that players have come to love over the years with something that is not going to win any reviews (79 pages isn't wrong, you know). And, yes, many of us wanted this travesty to be gone and the towers to be reinstated. It was one of our ways of getting medals (for those of us who were either starting out in building or just needed them to continue expanding our cities). It was also a way for us to really interact with our neighbors, and make friends. Some people I enjoy hitting and competing to see who gets to the top, neighborhood wise (I could give a toss about server rankings as it always going to be one who spends a lot of money to get just about everything so they can be on top). It gives us that flexibility to using our armies efficiently. It also help us determine who is actively fighting and who is sitting on the sidelines.

Simply not removing this travesty DOES NOT EQUATE to not being listened to. It's the weeks' long silence THAT EQUATES to not being listened to. I was a forum moderator for a game that is long gone now but is being played on the Chinese server. I take the time to listen to folks' suggestions to forward to the ones responsible. I take the time to reply back to those suggestions in letting folks know that the matter is being looked into. When some time passes, I TAKE THE INITIATIVE to ask for a status update as I do not like to leave anything open or unanswered. Sometimes, if it equates to being a pest then so be it. I am not here to take your job or any other staff member's job. I am here to ask for a little professional courtesy between yourselves and the player base as Inno needs players... we don't need Inno.

We can't implement all of the feedback we receive and it's not possible to both remove the feature and improve it at the same time. For those who feel the only improvement is to remove it, then, in this case, the outcome is disappointing for you.
With this travesty of a feature, it would have fallen into the "Do Not Suggest List" for majority of the players have spoken on its removal. I guess Inno doesn't have the old backup that can be used to restore while this is being reprogrammed (feel free to check the really good suggestions that was made by others in the last 79 pages). Very bad, Inno, very bad indeed.

The last sentence has me laughing, though. We might be disappointed, but not as much as Inno that will witness everyone leaving FoE in droves should this go into the live servers in its current form.

For those who made it this far in reading the full monty, I don't believe in skimming when I want to get a point across. I am very detailed.


Moderator note: removed bold formatting
 
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esoterism

Squire
It was also a way for us to really interact with our neighbors, and make friends. Some people I enjoy hitting and competing to see who gets to the top, neighborhood wise (I could give a toss about server rankings as it always going to be one who spends a lot of money to get just about everything so they can be on top). It gives us that flexibility to using our armies efficiently. It also help us determine who is actively fighting and who is sitting on the sidelines.

FOE is a community game, not an individualistic game, we therefore need the PvP Towers stats to rank ourselves against peers.
PvP Arena does reach this aim and wish to transform a community game into an individualistic game, that the reason why this will be a TOTAL FAILURE THAT WILL COMPLETELY DESTROY THE GAME (for mercantile purposes, that can be reached otherwise).
SO STOP IT FROM HAPPENING !!!
 
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DEADP00L

Emperor
Perk Creator
Certainly there will be disappointments regardless of Inno's decision, concerning all the grievances but the main one, the one that annoys the most testers, remains the MMR (ie the choice of opponents).
The PvP towers brought nothing but the few medals helped in the small ages.
With the arena, a player who is in HMA or MAC, quickly finds himself confronted with players in MARS. This is where Inno turns a deaf ear!

@Dudettas : You say (rightly) that these 80 pages are not representative of the community.
Take a multiple choice survey to determine members' wishes and force this survey on the entire community.
Only it will be difficult to deny the obvious.

The survey could include:
- return of PvP or removal of the arena
- the age of the opponents
- automatic fights
- the unique job of the neighborhood
- etc ...

Thus it would not be 50 members who would give the impression of being 3,000 but a real panel representative of the expectations of the players.
 
My theory is that Inno has a pool of whales/ultra spenders that they send surveys to, but this number is probably not grand in number but grand in importance.

Inno has done rollbacks before, this hasn't gone live, there's always opprotunity to go back.

Moderator note, removed swearing.
 
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HossamAly

Merchant
I'm curious whether this other feedback source had also presented 'strong positive feedback' regarding the Virgo Project GB when it was released on Beta and everyone said it was a bad idea yet it carried on to live? Or is it just the Devs inability to recognise bad design concepts?

This is a bad concept. I honestly don't know what changes can be implemented to improve it. I'm not furious that it'll replace the towers, as the towers weren't massively useful anyway. I am just baffled that inno thought this is a good concept and is ready for Beta testing, and even released a teaser on live servers. It shows an extreme lack of good judgment.
 

beelzebob666

Overlord
Pathfinder
Spoiler Poster
. I honestly don't know what changes can be implemented to improve it.
I made some...
My suggestion still is:
- manual fighting (defenders army is hidden)
- no bonuses from GB or other buildings (like Egyptian settlement)
- new pool of troops similar to the Egyptian units and no rogues (current age troops can be converted to Arena troops of the same type)

That way the arena would be a real show of skill (besides buying tries with diamonds).

Edit:
I could even think of some premium options besides healing units and extra attempts:
- limit the amount of troops that can be converted daily - extra troops can be converted for using diamonds
- infiltration option - use diamonds to damage the opposing units (similar to the continent map)
- scouting - use diamonds to uncover the hidden enemy units (one by one)
 
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Blackfir5

Farmer
So, one week full play in PvP Arena and i still placed behind rank 1000!!!
I'm contemporary an so better my ranking, so harder the easy oponents. near place 1000 the easy opponent is oceanic. whorse, but i trieda few times. no chance to win. and whorse too, i have to loose hard earned points. i know, bevore i start the fight. there is noch way to change the opponents?!?

at the PvP towers, in one week full power, i can reach first place. in arena not even place 1000. the arena should be replaced with the towers! as soon as possible please!
 

Cardena

Squire
...

Whilst there is a lot of feedback on this subject, only a portion of that feedback is calling for the feature to be removed.

When reading this, I am quite sure that some of the feedback here was deeply misunderstood. Many of us tried to be polite and were asking for changes instead of saying, dump this are PvP-arena into the bin and try doing something new.

If we are asking for mayor changes about the behaviour of the arena, what else is it than to say, just remove the arena?

A feature,
  • which enables you to complete buy your way,
  • which does not function for lower era players but nonetheless invites them to participate (why? easy preys for the diamond players who would otherwise be unable to win, or what is reason EMA has to fight against Mars?)
  • which only gives the feeling of success to a tiny amount of the players unlike the old towers (yes, there are players which never did look at the old ones, those are not going to miss them, but those players most probably will be indifferent to the new arena also)
should make players happy? Really?

There may be ways to change the arena to something which is not a complete desaster (which the arena now is). But the changes would be so big (and possible changes have been mentioned in this thread, for example only for the last three eras or one arena for every era or every neighbourhood), that it is the same as saying get rid of the arena and try again to find a good feature for the players who like to fight. It is only more polite to talk about the changes than to say forget the arena as it is now.

But it seems being polite to INNO is not a good idea.
 

Nessie

Baronet
But it seems being polite to INNO is not a good idea.

It was never a good idea to be polite to a profit oriented company like InnoGames. If you want something to laugh about, go to the official website of InnoGames innogames.com/


In fact, most of InnoGames' statements on the official website are in direct contradiction to how InnoGames actually behaves - the best example is the PvP arena - therefore this is not off topic.

Or would you call a statement like this in connection with PvP Arena off topic? I call it misleading and a shame:

QUOTE
The InnoGames development team is dedicated to giving players the best possible gaming experience. Long-term gaming enjoyment, technical advances, and high-end graphics are the priority at InnoGames. The opinions of the players of our online games are incredibly important to us and the InnoGames team is always happy to get feedback. UNQUOTE

There is more like that, read it :(
 
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jovada

Regent
The InnoGames development team is dedicated to NOT giving players the best possible gaming experience. Long-term gaming enjoyment, technical advances, and high-end graphics are NOT the priority at InnoGames. The opinions of the players of our online games are NOT incredibly important to us and the InnoGames team is NOT happy to get feedback.

@Nessie , i corrected your text you forgot the word NOT
 

Thunderdome

Emperor
The InnoGames development team is dedicated to giving players the best possible gaming experience. Long-term gaming enjoyment, technical advances, and high-end graphics are the priority at InnoGames. The opinions of the players of our online games are incredibly important to us and the InnoGames team is always happy to get feedback.
This was posted when I played in YEAR 1. This was the reason why I came to play FoE. Yes, I do my reading before I play a game because it's not of a monetary investment but of a different kind of investment that involves time and enjoyment. Year one had all that. I regret leaving after year one for outside related things, but I came back a few years later and decided to have another go at it, meaning I have to rebuild since my CA city was deleted due to inactivity.

Now, the way things go and the moderators are lap dogs to Inno, I begin to regret playing or even voicing my disappointment. They don't give a damn. Removing my bold font (yes, I was too ticked off that I felt I should emphasize my point as I won't kiss down and sugar coat things when I know they done is one of those things that made me think this.

Figured this way, if a post contains something "positive" about something that is messed up, they will accept it. If a post contains something that will make them look bad (yes, this joke of a feature does make them look bad) they will just turn a blind eye to it. In the end, we're just wasting our words, boys and girls,


Moderator note: removed swearing
 
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