Feedback Postponement of Guild Perks

[one day flower]

Good idea provided you limit the number of friendly guilds and put a timeout after any acceptance of friendship between guilds.

Thank you. It's my intention to limit it to 1 other guild. I have encountered several guilds with descriptions saying something like "We are a junior guild too xyz".
A timeout was not my intention. Why do you think that is a requirement? What do you see as the danger?

The perk i mentioned above is a guild perk which would provide a boon above just the formal listing as a friendly guild.

I am still thinking about other perks which would provide a boon to such a relationship.

 

[drakenridder]

But if you can't, then I remind you GBG is not infinite. 60 provinces. 160 fights. 6 shifts per day maximum. it s is divided into 8 guilds and distributed in proportion to their capabilities. It's just that the strongest take whatever they want. The rest take what they can

Let me remind you that if an 4h slot is on an GbG province no one can advance in that province, thus they can't do anything. It is actually virtually infinite as there's no attrition at work while bypassing.

Pff..Obsession is bad in the general case. Obsession in the game is ridiculous

Yeah indeed, obsessive bragging about achievements in this game is ridiculous, like this for example:

But Chateau -100+ and arc 180 allow me to farmed coins, supplies, OP and goods in quantities that 80% of players cannot imagine.

All irrelevant information, just a bunch of bragging. Especially the coins & supplies part cause any established and serious player wouldn't brag about that as they can't care less about anything in the game then that.

Will you be able to compete with this with your stocks?

Talking about obsession. Why would that be relevant at all? You're just obsessively bragging at this point. The question is irrelevant and not helpful for perks. Instead of attacking me for perhaps hurting you're ego and launching another brag francy we could've also friendly discussed further on the objective points we agreed up on: GE 4th encounters giving an small boost in unlocking perks. Would've been more helpful. Don't you think?

Let's get back to this question when Inno cancels the donation limit and releases perks to live servers. If the perks will be worth to donation of course

Then those who have the resources and the means will be able to get perk lvl3. Established players can take bigger portions on their shoulders while weaker players don't have to compromising their progress. Post-scares players & guilds can already dominating in the only cross-platform competitive feature of this game: GbG. Even when the exploits are patched. As perks are an guild affair too, shouldn't make any difference anyways that post-scares guilds can unlock lvl3 faster.
For whales the could add lvl4 premium lvl for an fixed large amount of diamonds. With some additional benefits like longer lasting perks or an additional positive effect.

On topic I think a system, inspired from constructive feedback could work:

1.) All perks are locked at lvl0
2.) Leaders can unlock lvl 1 with guild treasure
3.) Everyone can participate by donating:
goods of choice
coins or supplies (limited to players up to Industrial Age)
Medals (starting from progressive era, replacing the coins and supplies)
Special resources of choice (AF and further)
Solving GE 4th encounters (similar to castle system)
4.) lvl2 & lvl3 can only be unlocked once the former level has been reached
5.) lvl4 can be unlocked as an bonus lvl with the use of diamonds. The number of diamonds is equal for any guild and provides additional time for lvl4 perks to last before resources are needed to maintain the perk

6.) Perk points will dwindle after a certain amount of time. This process will become exceedingly faster for each individual perk until the guild and it's members can't maintain it anymore and it'll drop back to lvl0 where rebuilding the perk can start

7.) Unlocked perks can be discontinued by founders if the guild may wish

 

[one day flower]

6.) Perk points will dwindle after a certain amount of time. This process will become exceedingly faster for each individual perk until the guild and it's members can't maintain it anymore and it'll drop back to lvl0 where rebuilding the perk can start

I can agree that perks have a maintenance cost. But faster and faster dwindling make them in effect temporary. Temporary is what we all abhorred in this beta. I would prefer to see them permanent. A maintenance cost would force only poor guilds to choose between perks. And a maintenance cost that is too high would make many perks unattractive.

 

[one day flower]

Solving GE 4th encounters (similar to castle system)
4.) lvl2 & lvl3 can only be unlocked once the former level has been reached
5.) lvl4 can be unlocked as an bonus lvl with the use of diamonds. The number of diamonds is equal for any guild and provides additional time for lvl4 perks to last before resources are needed to maintain the perk

I see no reason to limit perks to 4 levels. Imho perks can vary in level. It's not clear what you mean with a bonus level. And cost in diamonds should never be the same for all guilds, but depend on the number of players. There's no logic in charging 4000 diamonds to a both a 40 member guild and to a 4 member guild.

 

[drakenridder]

I see no reason to limit perks to 4 levels. Imho perks can vary in level. It's not clear what you mean with a bonus level. And cost in diamonds should never be the same for all guilds, but depend on the number of players. There's no logic in charging 4000 diamonds to a both a 40 member guild and to a 4 member guild.

Having an fixed number will discourage 1-person guilds te obtain an additional diamond perk lvl. EG n guild with 3-5 whales can sharing the costs if they wish making it effectively cheaper and thus beneficial for an larger guild to have. On the other hand if it should be number dependent it could be 10k for guilds of 10 or less, 12-15k for 11-20 members, 16-21k for 20-32 and 30k for 33+ members. For each additional costs better yielding diamond benefits. Perhaps an slightly stronger buff with an small discount for maintaining it or slower degradation of points thus less maintenance needed.

I can agree that perks have a maintenance cost. But faster and faster dwindling make them in effect temporary. Temporary is what we all abhorred in this beta. I would prefer to see them permanent. A maintenance cost would force only poor guilds to choose between perks. And a maintenance cost that is too high would make many perks unattractive.

Yeah, overlooked it.

 

[Yekk]

One solution allowing the pay to play portion could be to have a limited number of perks or perk levels free BUT to have pay to play after that. A daily cost of diamonds. This, if the perks were decent, would fix much of the problems versions 1 and 2 had. It fits in how the players see diamond use. More over it would be accepted.

Perks levels to be un locked by a guild then level one available to all. Level 2-3 to be pay to play daily?

 

[jovada]

Pay to play yes , but not only with diamonds cause that will force players to buy diamonds (and many will quite the game then) or you have to put everything on the shoulders of the big spenders.

 

[Yekk]

Players need not buy diamonds but to access the most elite parts of the game diamonds are necessary. A certain amount can be won in GE, basic game play, and GBG. In the computer version we can use 5 diamonds to collect a city. Costs need not be oppressive. If the perk is decent all those small buys add up. Players won diamonds can get some perks but to get more will take using bought diamonds at some point.

Pluses are perks do not disappear from a guild, perks can tailored to the type of guild (elite, friends and family, development). This actually will get members interested. V1 and V2 did not interest even the hardcore players much.

 

[1BFA]

Is this feature going to be updated in beta again? or is it ready for go live?

 

[one day flower]

Is this feature going to be updated in beta again? or is it ready for go live?

That Inno asks for feedback in my humble opinion means they are at least considering a new version. They have the habit of giving their own interpretation to player feedback, and then come up with a new version. My guess is it will take some time before this goes live.

 

[Juber]

Is this feature going to be updated in beta again? or is it ready for go live?

It will definitely not come live in its current state (That's why it was deactivated on beta). It will probably be redone at a later date, but I have no more information regarding the Guild Perks.

 

[1BFA]

It will definitely not come live in its current state (That's why it was deactivated on beta). It will probably be redone at a later date, but I have no more information regarding the Guild Perks.

Thank you very much for the info

 

[one day flower]

Could there plz be any indication on what the designers have decided?

 

[CrashBoom]

Could there plz be any indication on what the designers have decided?

when they are ready to tell us what they have decided we will get an announcement

 

[drakenridder]

An proposal for the perk's costs. Please keep in mind that all values are illustrative
and will still need some tweaking and balancing. I've proposed that the costs are
influenced by the strength of the perks. The stronger and more valuable, the higher
the costs. This proposal has integrated some ideas and concepts from others. Sadly
I lack the time to provide credit for the original proposers.
I have included 1 premium level to replacing the daily 30 donations limit. The costs are
intentionally high and fixed for any guild size. As it rewards larger guilds which are
harder to manage. As an larger guild can share the costs of diamonds over an larger
number of players. If they are willing to paying diamonds for the benefits. This can
be for example an additional effect but will also noticeable extend the duration
before maintaining the perk becomes necessary.
It can be argued that established players can easily pushing to lvl3 in an heart beat
while less established guilds will struggle. This however should not be an constrain
as nothing in the game is constrained for the same reason. This is natural selection
and should serve as an motivation for smaller guilds to either grow larger or grow
stronger. It's also designed to discourage smaller spin off guilds. To prevent an
situation in which 1 person guilds are rewarded and becoming appealing.

Weak guild perks:
1-4 members: Guild perks not available

5-10 members
lvl1 1,5k points
lvl2 2k points
lvl3 3,5k points

20 members
lvl1 2k points
lvl2 2,5k points
lvl3 4k points

30 members
lvl1 2,5k points
lvl2 3k points
lvl3 4,5k points

40 & more members
lvl1 3,5k points
lvl2 4k points
lvl3 5,5k points

5 or more members:
lvl4: 10k diamonds

Time before dropping 1 lvl: 24 days (resets to 24 days when new lvl has been reached)
Lvl4: +7 additional days before dropping down to lvl3

Medium strong guild perks:
1-4 members: Guild perks not available

5-10 members
lvl1 2,5k points
lvl2 3k points
lvl3 4,5k points

20 members
lvl1 3k points
lvl2 3,5k points
lvl3 5k points

30 members
lvl1 3,5k points
lvl2 4k points
vl3 5,5k points

40 & more members
lvl1 4,5k points
lvl2 5k points
lvl3 6,5k points

5 or more members
lvl4: 15k diamonds

Time before dropping 1 lvl: 23 days (resets to 23 days when new lvl has been reached)
Lvl4: +14 days

Strong guild perks:
1-4 members: Guild perks not available

5-10 members
lvl1 4k points
lvl2 4,5k points
lvl3 5,5k

20 members
lvl1 4,5k points
lvl2 5k points
lvl3 6k points

30 members
lvl1 5k points
lvl2 5,5k points
lvl3 6,5k points

40 & more members
lvl1 5,5k points
lvl2 6k points
lvl3 7k points

5 or more members
lvl4: 20k diamonds

Time before dropping 1 lvl: 22 days (resets to 22 days when new lvl has been reached)
Lvl4: +21 additional days before dropping down to lvl3

Point system (illustrative values):
5 / 10 / 15 / 20 points for solved 4th GE encounters (GE lvl1, GE lvl2, GE lvl3, GE lvl4)
Up on completing an 4th encounter in GE an player receives automatically an Perk token which
can be used on any active perk of choice. The idea to discount needed points on perks through
GE 4th encounters wasn't mine idea but I strongly agreed and like the concept so, I've included
into this suggested point system).

10 points = 10 special goods of choice
5 points = 5 fps (just an example I'm not sure what ratio fps/goods is cause it's debatable)
5 points = 10 goods of choice, current age
2 points = number of medals from an small medal package
4 points = number of medals from an medium medal package

The points system is similar to GBs. Where each new level costs more
then the previous. So, for example from for an strong perk with an guild of 30
members who want lvl3, they'll need:
Lvl1 = 5k points
Lvl2 = 10,5k points total (5,5k points needed to advance from lvl 1 to lvl2 + 5k points for reaching lvl1)
Lvl3 = 17k points total (10,5k points total needed to reach lvl2 + 6,5k points needed to advance from lvl2 to lvl3)

So, if for example I would want to paying all by myself for the perk with special goods:
17.000 points needed / 10 special goods = 1.700x donations x 10 points / donation = 17.000
special goods. I know an space age player can accumulate such but this is just 1 perk of
perhaps 3 different strong perks of choice. Which would quickly turn into an time consuming
effort to grind the needed resources. This however can be reduced by the use of perk tokens
which are received through GE. I know also that 1.700x donating will be annoying for that I'll
propose the option to select what you want to donate and how many times.

Donating
1.) Select what you want to donate: EG special goods
2.) Select which special good, EG: Prom., Or., Mars ore, Asteroid Ice, Carbon, we select Carbon
3.) Fill in how many times you want to donate 10 Carbon: 500x
4.) Confirm you want to donate 500x 10 Carbon, this can not be reversed, confirm
5.) 5.000 points have been contributed to (insert perk name here)

Donation score board
Similar to GE there's an score board. The score board displays the total number of
points all members have contributed to any active perk. While I don't believe an feature
should solve inactive members who are in for the ride, I think a score board is desirable.
In any case it doesn't show what has been donated but just how much points are
contributed for the common goal.

Maintaining perks
After X days active perks dropping by 1 lvl, this is true for any level except lvl0. If an
guild wishes to maintaining the level the leaders must unlock that level afterwards again
and the guild must advance again to the level to restoring it. As whenever the guild
perk's next level is reached the deterioration timer is reset no valuable time of the
perk is lost and it can be used strategically.
For example you're guild has the perk Charming Diplomat lvl2. In order to advance
the perk to lvl3 first an leader must unlock it, similar to how they need to unlock GE
levels before you can playing on them. After unlocking lvl3 the members must donate
to advance the perk to lvl3 before the perk is dropping down to lvl2. As the timer is
still running. Let's say the guild is successful and the timer was at 3 days remaining,
when the needed points for lvl3 was met. Then the timer will reset, let's say the
Charming diplomat perk is considered medium strong. Then the timer resets from
3 days to 23 days. Let's assume the guild doesn't want to pay diamonds for lvl4.
After 23 days the perk will drop down to lvl2. The timer will reset once again to
23 days and counts down. An leader unlocks lvl3 and everyone can work to getting
the perk back to lvl3.

Discontinue active perks
When a guild wishes to discontinue any active perk, this is possible at any given
moment. Only founders can discontinue active perks. However this is irreversible.

Also for this we can take the Charming diplomat perk as an example. Let's say
the perk is at lvl2 and just a few days ago dropped back to lvl2. The guild isn't
interested in the perk anymore and wants to switch to the perk For The Guild!
Any founder can decide to discontinue the perk Charming diplomat. After confirming
that the perk will be dropped the founder or any leader can unlock the perk
For The Guild! Afterwards the members can start donating towards lvl1 of this
new active perk.

 

[Yekk]

Thanks Drak.

BUT it still comes down to the perks themselves. Versions 1 and 2 showed a complete lack of understanding by the developers. Players do not need a 3% boost to attack, do not care about buffing coins or supplies, should never want or need city defense, they only really use negotiation if they have a SC or a daily that requests it. Even at level 3 Guild Perks were not interesting. I need perks I can "sell" to my guild.

The perks above would not be on their lists of wants. A perk for additional space in their cities would be. A percentage added to their total attack might be (10% perk would change 300 attack to 330 for an example) same with total defense.

 

[drakenridder]

BUT it still comes down to the perks themselves. Versions 1 and 2 showed a complete lack of understanding by the developers. Players do not need a 3% boost to attack, do not care about buffing coins or supplies, should never want or need city defense

Thanks and yes the main point are obviously the perks themselves. Though some forum members
where specifically asked how guild perk costs should work. I think the best answer towards it was
something like this. An mechanic that integrated the best ideas and concepts that tackles all the
mechanical issues of the original execution. Though I agreed no matter how good the mechanics
are, if the offered perks ain't good enough, no one cares.
That been said, fairly good suggestions for new perks have been suggested, imo. Most where
helpful for the guild. Aiding guilds in GbG and GE. Personal buffs shouldn't be a thing in the first
place in guild perks, if there where personal perks it would've made sense.

they only really use negotiation if they have a SC or a daily that requests it.

Many players are military focused only. Often overlooking and forgetting their play style is not
the only existing one. Plenty players negotiate for various reasons. I myself prefer military
solutions but I do see strategical usage from negotiations. Beyond GbG some guild members
are only able to complete GE4 through negotiations. Negotiations have their place in guilds
and can benefitting them. Leaders of an largely variable guild might see use in it, while guilds
of military minded players only won't need them.

Even at level 3 Guild Perks were not interesting. I need perks I can "sell" to my guild.

There are plenty good perks suggested in the perk contest. Every guild would reasonable feel the same,
regarding perks if they'll ever return: there's an need for perks they can sell to their members. Though I
think the dev. team could still ask their CM's to organise perk contests for live servers for a wider variety
and more ideas for what players are looking for, regarding perks. If they want to giving it a chance.

The perks above would not be on their my lists of wants.

Variation is important to fit most guilds. While this where just a few examples to illustrate the working
of mechanics, there might be some appealing perks in the contest for them.

A perk for additional space in their cities would be

Impossible to implement as a perk can stop for various reasons. Causing issues for used expansions.

A percentage added to their total attack might be (10% perk would change 300 attack to 330 for an example) same with total defense.

Would be awesome for many battle minded guilds.

 

[BrunenjiiBeta]

I lost interest in the guild perk system almost immediately. Guild consensus was a pain, donating day in and day out for little to no benefit. It's nice having a place to dump excess resources like supplies and such, but it's just more meaningless clicking in a game that doesn't need it.

Instead of spending time redesigning the perk system, maybe the developers should actually play the game instead. I got the sense from the initial perk rewards that they were created by someone who had hardly, if ever, played the game for any appreciable length of time.

 

[Yekk]

Thanks and yes the main point are obviously the perks themselves. Though some forum members
where specifically asked how guild perk costs should work. I think the best answer towards it was
something like this. An mechanic that integrated the best ideas and concepts that tackles all the
mechanical issues of the original execution. Though I agreed no matter how good the mechanics
are, if the offered perks ain't good enough, no one cares.
That been said, fairly good suggestions for new perks have been suggested, imo. Most where
helpful for the guild. Aiding guilds in GbG and GE. Personal buffs shouldn't be a thing in the first
place in guild perks, if there where personal perks it would've made sense.

Many players are military focused only. Often overlooking and forgetting their play style is not
the only existing one. Plenty players negotiate for various reasons. I myself prefer military
solutions but I do see strategical usage from negotiations. Beyond GbG some guild members
are only able to complete GE4 through negotiations. Negotiations have their place in guilds
and can benefitting them. Leaders of an largely variable guild might see use in it, while guilds
of military minded players only won't need them.

There are plenty good perks suggested in the perk contest. Every guild would reasonable feel the same,
regarding perks if they'll ever return: there's an need for perks they can sell to their members. Though I
think the dev. team could still ask their CM's to organise perk contests for live servers for a wider variety
and more ideas for what players are looking for, regarding perks. If they want to giving it a chance.

Variation is important to fit most guilds. While this where just a few examples to illustrate the working
of mechanics, there might be some appealing perks in the contest for them.

Impossible to implement as a perk can stop for various reasons. Causing issues for used expansions.

Would be awesome for many battle minded guilds.

Negotiations made up about 3.5 % of my guilds last league (1684/48723). Almost all done for the players SC. New map with a 4 way split so players saw attrition. They used negs early each day or late when attrition got high. We do have a couple still that did use negs to finish their GE.

On space... that would be easy. A guild community farm/industrial park where players could produce goods for themselves and or the guild treasury. This fits the feel of "helping a guild" part of GP. In fact many perks could arise from such a system. Higher levels either produce more or give more space. If the perk falls off the goods/industries go unharvested. I suggest using the area where event hub is and to its NE. Such a perk would help the most players and act as a great way to frame GP to the players.

The guild GP area would fit into many types of perks. Training areas for attack and defense for an example. Storage areas? What others?

 

[Yekk]

The mechanic of how perks are enabled and fall off did not work. I suggest much of what Drakenridder said but in a different way. Many more levels with his falls off method of levels going down if their maintenance costs are not kept up. A system that makes leveling up a longer process for guilds. Like the guild leveling system we see now where guilds aim to get to level 100. I disagree on a level going back totally to 0. Level 1 feels a better spot to minimize to.