Feedback Guild Expedition Update

[-Alin-]

but this week the FoY situation is even worse than last week

last week it was a selection kit every 8 weeks.
now it is a fountain every 16 weeks. and a shrink kit every 16 weeks

so when wanting to build those farms at the beginning 2 fountains are much better than 1 + 1 selection kit

and when you already have your little farm then you want more shrink kits than fountains to get more space
and at that time you already get Fountains also from relics so you won't get enough shrink kits for all of your fountains

Still nothing to be shocking.
Intentionally is worsen

You still have ToR to get them, lets see for how long ...

 

[xivarmy]

Why would I be shocked when I know already what are their intentions?
Isn't clear enough they want to reduce diamonds and the chances to build wishing wells/FoY farms?

Either You suffer this Nerf or You can expect from them to lock the possibility of sharing diamonds between worlds and let everything as it was before.

I don't think we have that choice Some players tried to put forward that choice, but there's no indication from inno that world-locking free diamonds is on their menu (there's probably some logistical issues with existing diamond balances and with whether changing the operation of things we've already won is acceptable - i.e. what if someone made the (poor) decision to *buy* wishing wells with diamonds on a world to make said diamond mine - they would have a reasonable gripe that one day they'd suddenly stop working - bait and switch)

I think the choice is more along the lines of "either FoY are rare and reduced, or everything connected to them is as well" (i.e. last week's you also will take 4 months to make a level 2 terrace farm).

So despite the fact that these changes might stop me from doing as much GE on diamond mines as it might feel "not worth the effort", I can live with this if the release state of GE is positive for play in a main world (new or old).

 

[Feodor]

Feedback from a french guilmate

En français :

"EG5: excellente idée d introduire du changement avec l armée de défense et un nouveau challenge.
Bâtiments:
Temple oublié: excellente idée de devoir faire chaque semaine l EG5 pour le garder, les stats sont ok
Serpent: j ai fait les calculs pour en gagner 1
Coût en diamants en prenant 4 rencontres 2 tentatives sup. + 6 rencontres 1 tentative sup. =140 diamants/semaine moins 80 gagnés EG4 = 60/semaine x12 = 720 diamants
Coûts ressources =5,000 ère-1 + 5,000 ère x12 = 60,000 de chaque
Gain pf 200/jour = 16,800 pf
Je ne sais pas encore si pour l avoir je suis prêt à dépenser 720 diamants

Est ce que je ferai EG5 chaque semaine pour un coût de 2880 diamants par an?
Les opposants sont beaucoup trop forts, la seule façon d économiser la dépense est diamants est de monter les bonus de l armée de défense, je pense que je jouerai l EG5 quand je serai capable de faire la moitié en combattant pour que le coût en diamant soit nul. Ça va être très long.

Ce que Inno devrait changer: donner 80 diamants à 100% sur la dernière rencontre EG4 et 80 diamants à la dernière de l EG5. Tant qu on est incapable de combattre, on serait à -/+ 20 diamants chaque semaine.

EG1-4: Énorme erreur sur les fragments, la diminution des gains en bâtiments ainsi que les médailles.
Les joueurs débutants jusqu’à 2 ans de jeu n ont pas assez de bâtiments d événement pour remplir leur cité, les visages et portes du soleil sont importants pour leur bonus d armée d attaque et les cultures en terrasse pour la production de pf/ressources. Les médailles de l EG, tant qu on a pas une arche 80 permettent d avoir des expansions.
Je comprends qu Inno veux réduire les gains en diamants, il suffit de supprimer les Fontaines ou de réduire significativement la possibilité d en gagner."

In english :
"GE5 : excellent idea to introduce change with defense army and a new challenge.
Buildings :
Forgotten Temple : excellent idea to have to complete GE lvl 5 every week to keep it, good statistics
Snake : I calculated the amount of goods and diamonds to win one :
- diamonds for 4 negos with 2 more tries + 6 negos with 3 more tries = 140 diamonds every week minus 80 won in GE lvl 4 : 60 per week x 12 = 720 diamonds
- goods : (5000 previous era + 5000 actual era) x 12 = 60,000 of each
- earnings : 200 fp each day = 16800 fp
I don't know if I'm ready to spend 720 diamonds to get it

Will I do GE lvl 5 every week for 2880 diamonds a year ?
Opponents are much too strong, the only way to spare diamonds is to encrease the defense army %age, I think I'll play GE5 when I am able to do half with fights, so the diamonds' cost is 0. It's going to be very long.

What Inno should change : give 80 diamonds (100 %) on the last GE4 encounter and 80 ond last GE5 encounter. As long as we can't fight, we'll win or loose 20 diamonds each week.

GE1-4 : Big mistake with the fragments, the decrease of medals and buildings.
Beginers up to 2 years don't have enough event buildings to fill there city, faces and gates of sun are important for their attack bonus and terraces for the fp and goods production. Medals allow to have expansion as long as they don't have Arc level 80.
I understand that Inno wants to reduce diamonds earnings, it's enough to lower the possibility to win fountains or to suppress them."

 

[DEADP00L]

Currently we have:
- 4 weeks to win a Forgotten Temple which is only active for 4 weeks and after that will only provide satisfaction.

What I offer:
- 1 week to win the Forgotten Temple which would be active for only one week and after that would only provide satisfaction
- each week the fragments would allow us to renew the temple in ruins instead of reselling it and putting another one back.

Benefits :
- no unnecessary sale and reinstallation of the same building each month.
- possibility of better managing the benefits of the forgotten temple when doing the GE 5 thoroughly according to the absences that one can have the following weeks.
- players have the feeling of being immediately rewarded for a rather complicated task.
- less fragments by immediately giving a kit instead.

Disadvantages:
- none, the bonus effort/time ratio remains the same.

 

[xivarmy]

Currently we have:
- 4 weeks to win a Forgotten Temple which is only active for 4 weeks and after that will only provide satisfaction.

What I offer:
- 1 week to win the Forgotten Temple which would be active for only one week and after that would only provide satisfaction
- each week the fragments would allow us to renew the temple in ruins instead of reselling it and putting another one back.

Benefits :
- no unnecessary sale and reinstallation of the same building each month.
- possibility of better managing the benefits of the forgotten temple when doing the GE 5 thoroughly according to the absences that one can have the following weeks.
- players have the feeling of being immediately rewarded for a rather complicated task.
- less fragments by immediately giving a kit instead.

Disadvantages:
- none, the bonus effort/time ratio remains the same.

Potential Disadvantages:

- you either cannot choose to stock up and use multiple temples at once (removes flexibility) if you cannot have more than 1 somehow, or it becomes easier to do so (less effort to stock up for an OP GBG week)
- if you don't perfectly complete GE5 every week it may feel worse to have 1 week on now and then than 4 weeks straight. Like it's "barely" up.
- you have to fiddle with the building every week (honestly I don't consider using a kit on it any better than sell and replace)

I'm not opposed to it being 1 week instead but I see reasons why they may prefer 4 weeks. And depending on what counterbalancing they may feel necessary if it were 1 week, I might prefer 4 weeks too.

 

[PrinceArthur]

My opinion regarding the new GE level 5:

I do like the graphics, they give a more friendly look to the last GE level.
I also like the concept of being able to have bonuses for each encounter by building fortifications for that particular encounter.

On the other side, I think the balancing is way off and should be reconsidered:

• The progressions of goods needed for negotiations goes from 0 to 1 per good (1-5 goods, level 1), 1-3 per good (1-8 goods, levels 2 & 3), 4-9 per good (5-9 goods, level 4) and suddenly jumps from 10 to 78 per good (10 different goods) in level 5!
• Similar for the battles: with a "normal" defense bonus of 34% A / 194% D (SpaceAge Mars) I can't even win a battle in the first encounter! While the bonuses of the opposing armies range from 100% to 458% in levels 1-4 they jump to 345% to 963% throughout level 5! And even if I level-up Deal Castle, Basilius Cathedral and Terracotta Army to levels beyond 100 I would only have 210% Attack bonus gain which is not even near what would be needed for all 16 encounters.
• the cost for the fortifaction is higher than the goods needed for negotiation in many encounters!
• The better rewards in GE level 5 aren't even near compensating for the high qualifications necessary to complete level 5 ... people won't play level 5 for the current rewards if you need >>10000 goods for negotiating ONE level.
• Playing in top guilds the last 10 years has also shown a change of requirements for joining/ staying in a guild with each new feature coming out which touches guild ranking or guild performance. One of them is typically completing ALL GE levels in ONE DAY when necessary to win the weekly GE for the guild! The change in philosophy/mechanics for level 5 will lead to a lot of problems for many players, a lot of mad discussions within the guild and a lot of unneccessary unrest! That alone will be a pain in the *** again :-((

I personally am not a fan of a "marathon" for a specific feature in online games: the game itself is a marathon already (because it never ends), running through all kinds of guild issues is a marathon, trying to play all or most of the numerous features of the game is even a daily marathon already, and I really don't need a new marathon within a new feature which is "way off" challenge-wise without a really big (compensating) reward ... that is more than frustrating!

I do hope that you reconsider the balancing of GE level 5: a new feature that in the mid-term run will only be played by 1-2% of the players is not really
worthwhile programming and maintaining, isn't it?

 

[SirAlucard]

Looked at the announcment for the changes and I'm not impressed. We had 2569%A/D on the enemy, last GE5 encounter SAJM. With a reduction of 23%, we're still at over 1900%, it's still a value, that probably only less than 1% of all players is able to beat. I said it before and I say it again, even a reduction of 50% from the first value would be a challenge to beat, but it would be a way more realistic value to fight against. We're still talking about fights where our CD values are taken and I see nobody with a high CD attack value, only high defense. And the amount of goods is still in need to be adjusted, 10-18k goods per week just for negotations means either sacrificing GE5 for all other features like GBG, GvG and era climbing or all other features get sacrificed for GE5. I know, what is more likely getting sacrificed, the GE5.

 

[Dave1186]

Looked at the announcment for the changes and I'm not impressed. We had 2569%A/D on the enemy, last GE5 encounter SAJM. With a reduction of 23%, we're still at over 1900%, it's still a value, that probably only less than 1% of all players is able to beat. I said it before and I say it again, even a reduction of 50% from the first value would be a challenge to beat, but it would be a way more realistic value to fight against. We're still talking about fights where our CD values are taken and I see nobody with a high CD attack value, only high defense. And the amount of goods is still in need to be adjusted, 10-18k goods per week just for negotations means either sacrificing GE5 for all other features like GBG, GvG and era climbing or all other features get sacrificed for GE5. I know, what is more likely getting sacrificed, the GE5.

But that high % is only the last encounter. As soon as your defenses improve, you can fight 11 or 12 encounter and only negotiate 4 or 5. Is it so hard for you? Are you going to die for doing 4 negotiations a week? This is incredible. I don't understand people are only here to click the mouse.

 

[stay rita]

us diamond farmers must unite this is worse than ww getting nerfed out of events!

 

[planetofthehumans2]

But that high % is only the last encounter. As soon as your defenses improve, you can fight 11 or 12 encounter and only negotiate 4 or 5. Is it so hard for you? Are you going to die for doing 4 negotiations a week? This is incredible. I don't understand people are only here to click the mouse.

When you can drop 10000 goods (1000 of each good from same age and previous age) on those 4 negs alone per week, yeah death will be imminent.

There absolutely needs to be a buff at the totem to reduce amount of goods. 2-3 isn't even 0.5% of what is required for ONE single selection on the castles and yet costs hundreds of goods to build ????

 

[softly explorer]

In the past getting Zeus, CoA and Cdm up to level 10 was enough to enjoy all current GE levels (1-3) ...
Now with GE L5, even with St Basil and Deal Castle getting them both up till you get the same boost as 3 GB's up to L10 (=90% boost) will be SURE NOT enough to win in GE L5 !
I've now 51% (TA) + 35% (St Basil) + 30% att+def from my Castle system + 5% from 4h Tavern boost = 121% Att + deff
On top of that I've 108% att and 318% def from other kind of buildings and still only can win the first 2 encounters of GE L5 ! With this same boost for attacking army I can win till end of GE L4.
Inno, lower the boost for GE L5 please ... a great challenge I like, but not an impossible challenge! I'm willing to negotiate the last 4 or 5 encounters on this current moment (and work on my boost to later on win all enc via battles!) ... But I prefer to do battles and you can't ask or force players to only negotiate ! If you bring out a new feature and create 2 possibilities to play that feature : well, make both options at least playable !

 

[Dave1186]

When you can drop 10000 goods (1000 of each good from same age and previous age) on those 4 negs alone per week, yeah death will be imminent.

There absolutely needs to be a buff at the totem to reduce amount of goods. 2-3 isn't even 0.5% of what is required for ONE single selection on the castles and yet costs hundreds of goods to build ????

But if you raise your defense a bit until you can win 11 or 12 fights, which is not an exaggeration, you only have to negotiate 4 or 5 encounters. That is no longer 10,000 goods, it can be 3,000 or 4,000 at most. And that is an affordable cost, if you have a slightly high Frontenac. You just have to optimize your city a bit to make it profitable for you to be able to do the GE5. It may take a few weeks or a few months, but it can be done in not too long.

 

[SirAlucard]

But that high % is only the last encounter. As soon as your defenses improve, you can fight 11 or 12 encounter and only negotiate 4 or 5. Is it so hard for you? Are you going to die for doing 4 negotiations a week? This is incredible. I don't understand people are only here to click the mouse.

I like a challenge, but this isn't a challenge, this is forcing people into negotiations without giving them the choice. If Inno doesn't want us to fight on GE5, they could simply delete it. And not everybody produces 2k goods a day or has time to do 50 RQ to gather the goods that way. And definitly nobody has high offensive stats AND a CD, that is high enough to defeat GE5 by fighting. Maybe some fights are possible, but not all. I don't know which era you're in, but I'm in SAAB on beta and on live in SAJM (the latter for quite some time now) and I don't see me doing the GE5 on both by fighting, the values are just unrealistic. I didn't ask for a reduction, so that people start autobattle again, but at least with microing them. But lets face it, even with microing, it's impossible, because most people don't even reach 500% attack on their CD. I don't see any way to defeat a two wave army that has 1900% a/d with an army that has only 500%/2000%. The damage dealt by the player isn't simply not high enough to survive. Like I said, it's taking the choice by forcing the people to do negotiations. That's something that I hate.

 

[PrinceArthur]

My opinion regarding the new GE level 5:

I do like the graphics, they give a more friendly look to the last GE level.
I also like the concept of being able to have bonuses for each encounter by building fortifications for that particular encounter.

On the other side, I think the balancing is way off and should be reconsidered:

• The progressions of goods needed for negotiations goes from 0 to 1 per good (1-5 goods, level 1), 1-3 per good (1-8 goods, levels 2 & 3), 4-9 per good (5-9 goods, level 4) and suddenly jumps from 10 to 78 per good (10 different goods) in level 5!
• Similar for the battles: with a "normal" defense bonus of 34% A / 194% D (SpaceAge Mars) I can't even win a battle in the first encounter! While the bonuses of the opposing armies range from 100% to 458% in levels 1-4 they jump to 345% to 963% throughout level 5! And even if I level-up Deal Castle, Basilius Cathedral and Terracotta Army to levels beyond 100 I would only have 210% Attack bonus gain which is not even near what would be needed for all 16 encounters.
• the cost for the fortifaction is higher than the goods needed for negotiation in many encounters!
• The better rewards in GE level 5 aren't even near compensating for the high qualifications necessary to complete level 5 ... people won't play level 5 for the current rewards if you need >>10000 goods for negotiating ONE level.
• Playing in top guilds the last 10 years has also shown a change of requirements for joining/ staying in a guild with each new feature coming out which touches guild ranking or guild performance. One of them is typically completing ALL GE levels in ONE DAY when necessary to win the weekly GE for the guild! The change in philosophy/mechanics for level 5 will lead to a lot of problems for many players, a lot of mad discussions within the guild and a lot of unneccessary unrest! That alone will be a pain in the *** again :-((

I personally am not a fan of a "marathon" for a specific feature in online games: the game itself is a marathon already (because it never ends), running through all kinds of guild issues is a marathon, trying to play all or most of the numerous features of the game is even a daily marathon already, and I really don't need a new marathon within a new feature which is "way off" challenge-wise without a really big (compensating) reward ... that is more than frustrating!

I do hope that you reconsider the balancing of GE level 5: a new feature that in the mid-term run will only be played by 1-2% of the players is not really
worthwhile programming and maintaining, isn't it?

As I said ... it's starting already.
From an email from the German server:
"
Da hat einer mindestens die Top 200 Gilden angeschrieben.
Ganz ehrlich . So, wie es sich jetzt darstellt auf der Beta, wär ich dafür.

Aus meiner Nachbarwelt: Dort diskutiert man gerade die GEX Stufe 5 (die ist auf dem Beta-Server bereits freigeschaltet). Viele Spieler sind dort extrem enttäuscht, einige haben das Spiel aus Protest sogar schon komplett an den Nagel gehängt. Es geht folgender Aufruf durch alle Welten:
„Wir informieren euch, dass wir die Gildenexpedition Stufe 5 boykottieren werden.
Die Gründe dafür sind die absurden Warenkosten Stufe 5, die fehlende Diamanten in den unteren Gewinnstufen und lächerliche Gewinne. Die Gewinne auf allen Stufen wurden ausgetauscht und gegen vollkommen unnützes Zeug ersetzt. Neue Spieler haben überhaupt keine Chance. Wir können Inno die gelbe Karte zeigen, wenn wir die Gildenexpedition einfach nicht frei schalten. Je mehr Gilden mitmachen, desto schneller werden wir auf uns aufmerksam machen. Macht bitte mit! und leitet diese Mail an befreundete Gilden weiter.“
"

 

[DEADP00L]

Die Gewinne auf allen Stufen wurden ausgetauscht und gegen vollkommen unnützes Zeug ersetzt.

Translate :
The winnings at all levels were exchanged and replaced with completely useless stuff.

It's great to "inform" live players based on a lie!
Apart from the diamonds which are already mentioned above in the German text, do you think that overall the rewards for levels 1 to 4 were better before?
Or would it be just a simple feeling?

I find the rewards better suited with the newer GE.
No more victory tower, medal packs, useless buildings that were sold immediately at the antique dealer.
Even the kits are better, they allow you to win what everyone prefers than selling 3 times out of 4.
If you think that the troops, the goods and the SP that we earn much more now are less good, I would like Inno to replace them in GbG with victory towers and medal packs. In addition the nerf will become totally useless, they will kill two birds with one stone.

 

[Dave1186]

I like a challenge, but this isn't a challenge, this is forcing people into negotiations without giving them the choice. If Inno doesn't want us to fight on GE5, they could simply delete it. And not everybody produces 2k goods a day or has time to do 50 RQ to gather the goods that way. And definitly nobody has high offensive stats AND a CD, that is high enough to defeat GE5 by fighting. Maybe some fights are possible, but not all. I don't know which era you're in, but I'm in SAAB on beta and on live in SAJM (the latter for quite some time now) and I don't see me doing the GE5 on both by fighting, the values are just unrealistic. I didn't ask for a reduction, so that people start autobattle again, but at least with microing them. But lets face it, even with microing, it's impossible, because most people don't even reach 500% attack on their CD. I don't see any way to defeat a two wave army that has 1900% a/d with an army that has only 500%/2000%. The damage dealt by the player isn't simply not high enough to survive. Like I said, it's taking the choice by forcing the people to do negotiations. That's something that I hate.

But Inno doesn't force you to complete it. Just like it doesn't force you to play GvG and other facets of the game. You can complete it, skip it, or complete only what you can.
The game as it was in recent times lacked strategy, because the only profitable thing was to improve the attack and click the mouse a lot to receive prizes. That was not funny. Now Inno seeks to reclaim the importance of city defenses and the production of goods. This is not a change that by itself is going to mean a great revolution in the strategies, but if in the next modifications it continues in this line, the type of player will be balanced a bit, if he is an attacker, defender or producer. All this with its advantages and disadvantages.
If your city only focuses on the attack, neglecting everything else, it is an unbalanced city and it will have to be noticed in some facet. Those of us who give priority to attack, but do not neglect defense and the production of goods, will have much less shortcomings, because it is more level.

 

[Cleitomachus]

I have an idea as a suggestion to Inno:
Keep those strong percentages of opponents in G.E. 5, but allow players to play with their strikers (with corresponding percentages).

In this way, you will again have a very strong level, compared to the previous ones 1-4 and on the other hand, all the levels would be unified and there would be no disparity, as level 5 is currently.

And also, even though you'd keep it unreachable as you originally planned, no one would complain that it doesn't have the necessary defense since it would still depend on its attack rates. And possibly in this way we could also accept the obnoxious fragments.

So I think both sides would be happy.

 

[CrashBoom]

or how about change level 1-4 also to defense

from 0 to those high enemy boosts in level 5 is a big jump
but if already on earlier levels then people already see an improvement from their own defense boosts

currently in SAJM it doesn't matter if you have 0% or 250% defense. not enough to be able to fight in level 5

but if defense starts in level 1 then you can fight more encounters with 250% than with 0% or 100%

it would be more encouraging to build defense:
now 10% more (until you have at least something like 400%) --> always fail in fighting
but then: every 10% more your city has --> probably one more encounter you can fight in the lower levels

and when you can win encounter 64 it is only a small step to beat 65

So I think both sides would be happy.

the defense side won't be happy if level 5 is also attacking

 

[Beta King]

I think the choice is more along the lines of "either FoY are rare and reduced, or everything connected to them is as well" (i.e. last week's you also will take 4 months to make a level 2 terrace farm).

So despite the fact that these changes might stop me from doing as much GE on diamond mines as it might feel "not worth the effort", I can live with this if the release state of GE is positive for play in a main world (new or old).

Yes this will save us the trouble of doing GE in the diamond worlds just like removing WW from events relieved us of the need to do the events in the diamond worlds. At this rate i wont be doing much in foe other than collecting + minimum in GE to appease my guild.

 

[outoftheline]

using the defense boost feels lazy and does not really make sense. it is confusing if you simply write "defend" on an encounter but nothing else changes.
the battlefield is the same, it uses the same attack mechanics and attack order as it always does.

the battle system is already confusing as it is: rouges are good, but not for the pvp arena (but fine in hood pvp) and rouges are not good on the continent map, except for when doing fights for space ores. this is "hidden" information, you have to figure it out on your own or someone has to tell you, same-ish with the defending boost now used for attacking specific things.

imho more things would need to change, so the battles actually feel like you are defending something.