Feedback Guild Battlegrounds Update 2021

[Owl II]

Then to motivate the guilds to grow in league, the "roads of victory" and "irrigated gardens" should only be won in the Diamond league.

Who needs this trash?

 

[DEADP00L]

Not you apparently, but I never see you happy with any suggestions.

But between the roads to victory, the% more significant gains (PF, diamonds, goods, ...) in the diamond league compared to other leagues, this should be more than enough to motivate the guilds to adapt to the competition.

 

[Yekk]

Yes, these are agro fields now. But this is not what the developers wanted. This is not what most advanced players want. That's what Noname wants. Give him the opportunity to farm on an equal footing with the tops. without making any effort. Life is unfair...

Noname wants his neighbors on the map to play as he needs. Noname wants Inno do for him what the other players do for themselves. Question: what is Noname ready to do? For Inno or for players of other guilds. What the hell Noname willing to do for yourself? Oh, wait, I'll guess. He will "give" us 60 provinces if inno gives him the SC, and we will not take them away from him. Thanks, no. My guild needs 300 where he will give 60. It's just different weight categories. He just shouldn't be in the same group with us. This is the main problem.

Since the designers will not change what we have they obviously want what we have. So farming it is. But making a system that has rankings is such an easy task. There is no reasonable reason why the current system exists. No one like what we have. You and Deadpool are on opposite ends yet both agree problems exist.

 

[drakenridder]

If inno were to decide that only the first in a league can go up and the last two go down, regardless of LPs, and we limit each GbG to 6 guilds, we would potentially have:
- 24 Diamond guilds, divided into 4 GBG;
- 48 guilds in Platinum, divided into 8 GBG;
- 96 Gold guilds, divided into 16 GBG;
- 192 Silver guilds, divided into 32 GBG;
- the rest in the Copper League, with only the 32 bests that would go up in Silver based on the total VP at the end of GbG.

Would be awesome though diamond will grow full as no one moves down in top2. So, the alliances remain effective. Unless diamond becomes the champion league in which only nr.1 stays. Though yo-yo effect comes back then.

 

[Owl II]

Since the designers will not change what we have they obviously want what we have. So farming it is. But making a system that has rankings is such an easy task. There is no reasonable reason why the current system exists. No one like what we have. You and Deadpool are on opposite ends yet both agree problems exist.

On opposite ends of what? Yes, the ranking system in GBG does not work at all. But that's not even the main problem. The main problem is that Deadpool, you, me and tens of thousands of other players have no incentive to compete. There is no incentive for advancement. There is no incentive to change something in our game on us own. The problem will stay while Noname play in the diamond league, in the same group with the tops

 

[jovada]

It is not a problem of whining or begging , it is just trying for a more balanced GbG.
Like proposed several times now, 2 slots in hq and only 1 slot in every other sector will prevent the endless pointfarming without attrition and giving the other guilds always a possibility to break out again.
Top guilds will still be top what is only normal but a larger field of players can be active this way.
The ranking or bonusses for the guild in GbG does'nt change if you are first with 1.000.000 points or with 10.000 points.

 

[drakenridder]

@jovada then those top players start whining that they can't point farm endlessly anymore and farming fragments for AD.:/ Even while it would surely making attrition relevant again for everyone.

 

[Yekk]

Once released it is impossible to put a genie back in the bottle. GBG is farming now. It just is imbalanced and unfair.

 

[Noname 5.0]

What fun I just had spent 65 Attrition for 75 points. I fight until my attrition level is at 60 .
As for developing players time n time again our guild built up players GBS just to have them qualify for larger guilds n leave. As for whining that all I’ve ever heard you do ms Owl II you don’t want to field to be equal because you enjoy beating up on helpless guilds that are forced to play in the diamond league against their will .
This is the main problem I completely agree with you Ms Owl II we don’t want to to be here we are forced to be here.
I use up 600 attrition points per session.
I’m not whining about anything except being placed in a league we don’t belong.
Since I’m being forced to play I’ve just suggested an alternative so that larger guilds n small guild can play on the same battleground. I repeat giving you 60 x the other 4 guilds that sit out the diamond league equals 240 more provinces to recapture instead of less than 10 .
You’ve been whining about everything and not even giving any alternative to help the situation we all are in except.
If you can’t compete in this league then you shouldn’t be here.
HELLO HELLO ATTENTION OWL II WE DONT WANT TO BE HERE WE ARE BEING FORCED TO PLAY IN THE DIAMOND LEAGUE.
As for joining a larger guild my wife to be likes being in the one we are in does not want to merge or join another guild.

 

[Noname 5.0]

Owl II we have a common goal small guilds don’t want to play in the diamond league and you don’t think we should be allowed to play in the diamond league. This we are in total agreement.
How do we fix this the most important problem about Guild Battleground?
If you really want the battleground to be more about strategy instead of might do away with all slots for buildings n just play with attrition levels going up one point for each battle won or a successful negotiation.
That would lead to not how many provinces you own to which provinces have the highest point value.

 

[Owl II]

It is not a problem of whining or begging , it is just trying for a more balanced GbG.
Like proposed several times now, 2 slots in hq and only 1 slot in every other sector will prevent the endless pointfarming without attrition and giving the other guilds always a possibility to break out again.
Top guilds will still be top what is only normal but a larger field of players can be active this way.
The ranking or bonusses for the guild in GbG does'nt change if you are first with 1.000.000 points or with 10.000 points.

You have to agree that the HQ should be available for capture If you want to have a SC in the HQ. Otherwise, it is not a balance, but just a lobby of the weakest who cannot move from the HQ. It would be much more correct and honest to create conditions the weak would like and could strengthen to compete with the strongest. And if not, they would have been in the lower leagues. Otherwise, what's the point? Drool and farm FP?

 

[Owl II]

Just understand one thing: if there are 60 provinces on the map, and they are not under lock, then a strong guild will find a way to color these provinces gray for itself. I like the idea of nerf camps . This idea is especially attractive on the new map, where there are twice as many provinces to fight. Where the capture of the map took half an hour on the old one, on the new one it stretches for an hour and a half. Oh, I really like the idea of shortening my fights after this season. But I m categorically against supporting the weakest instead of giving them an incentive to develop! This will finally will kill the game

 

[Noname 5.0]

What do you think about having no slots for buildings and making this a more strategy incentive battleground.
You didn’t address the main problem of forcing small guilds into the diamond league where they don’t belong.
I don’t know what country your from but in the United States we help other countries not try a destroy them .
You talk about how you done so much for your guild the one your not even the founder of how you build up your treasury . Well duh you have 60 members with Arcs n it has nothing to do with you or anything you’ve done .
There are guilds that don’t want the drama that comes with larger guilds. They are just fine the way they are .
The real battleground is going to go down when some of your guild members think that contributing to perks are a waste of resources and the other resent the fact they don’t donate.
It’s been fun but you’ve made no sense of what the real problems are .
As to “ I don’t need you to give me provinces to capture I just take them.” Remember this when you are once again in a stall mate without any provinces left to capture with 5 or 6 days left in the battleground.

 

[Owl II]

What do you think about having no slots for buildings and making this a more strategy incentive battleground.

I think it will be a great battleground. And I think that strong guilds will still control the map and you will still sit in the HQ and look for excuse which do not allow you to play

 

[Noname 5.0]

I don’t know how you can say I would hide in my HQ I battle every day until my attrition levels get too high for me to continue. Everyone else in my guild does the same. Getting 75 points with no SC for back up hardly says that I don’t attack on the battleground. We have our guild only once did nothing to go down a league to rest after battling in the diamond league league for eight months now we are back battling again in the diamond league for our 3rd battleground in a row.
What ever made you think that our guild of 4 doesn’t battle in the diamond league.?
When we get in a favorable map we’ve even taken first place. Second place,but mostly third or fourth.
We have even played in a battleground with your guild in that one we came in second place.
I don’t know how you can say we don’t battle when clearly we do . We have even held the rank # 47 but most of the time it’s in the 70s .
You say you got better by joining a larger guild so the guild you are so proud of you yourself had nothing to do with its success. I scouted your guild you have 4 players in your guild that we built up with Alcatraz , Arc so they could qualify for a larger guild like the one your in and leave after doing that eight or nine times we got tired of building up players just to have them qualify for larger guilds and leave. So don’t say we would hide in our HQ n do nothing when we’ve been battling in the diamond league every time except one.
All I’m saying is we don’t want to be in the diamond league not that we don’t battle while we are there.
I’ve played in organized sports for the age of 8 until I graduated high school. Never once did a 8 to 12 age group play against a 13 to 15 age group or did the 13 to 15 play against 16 to 18 year old.
All I’ve been trying to say is we don’t want to BE IN THE DIAMOND LEAGUE NOT THAT WE HAVE NOT BATTLED WHILE WE WERE THERE. SO GET YOUR FACT STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU START RUNNING YOUR MOUTH ABOUT SOMETHING YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF .

 

[Owl II]

All I’m saying is we don’t want to be in the diamond league not that we don’t battle while we are there.
I’ve played in organized sports for the age of 8 until I graduated high school. Never once did a 8 to 12 age group play against a 13 to 15 age group or did the 13 to 15 play against 16 to 18 year old.

All I want to tell you is to off Caps and stop thinking what if they give you a bench to make you seem taller, you will be able to compete with those who are older. if you've actually been playing sports, you'll understand this. Also: you can't know anything about my guild and my game. Except what you see on beta. Beta is just a test server for most of us. So stop fantast

 

[Emberguard]

For the negative feedback in general in the forums: You all have to consider, that mostly the high developed players write in the forum (in the beta forum especially). This of course gives a perspective of the most active users, but not the majority of players. I don't want to say, that your feedback in the forum does not matter, but what I want to tell is, that this is not the only source of feedback.

Have you ever thought that the most feedback comes from guildleaders ?? So i represent about 200 active players as a feedback.
I'm sure that others here also are leaders and representing not only their oppinion but speak for their guild to.
So i think that the feedback given is pretty what the majority of players think.

Other source of feedback is probably the same as with the first attempt pvp-arena, massive negative feedback here, other sources (never told us wich cause that was a big secret again) were very possitive we heard here, they moved as test on the EN-server because we were not representive enough and guess what after 2 days more then 30 negative pages so they quickly removed it again.

With respect to the feedback from developed players - that should have more weight and be more important than simply random players that are not experienced with the game. Casual or new players are least affected by these types of changes because they do not utilize most of these features. They might even "like" the changes without even noticing the effects on their gameplay. Simple cosmetic changes are often enough to dazzle casual players thatdo not play the game in a competitive way.

Not to say that their feedback isn't important, useful, valuable, etc. More to say that oftentimes they don't even understand the differences they are giving feedback on in the first place. They have no frame of reference to understand the impact. For example, those types of players might give positive feedback about a new map because it looks nice and yet, they have never played in a gbg league where there's ever been a single race and/or they've never seen every single sector on a map taken. Frankly, who cares what that person thinks about the new gbg map? Their opinion has literally no value with respect to the functionality or playability of said new map. that's just one simple example.

As jovada said, many of the people responding here represent far more than just ourselves. Guild leaders speak with their guildmates, with other guild leaders, and the members of those other guilds. Players like mooingcat or me have large audiences of players that speak with us in channels outside of Forge and give feedback about their experience with the game. That's not to say that our individual opinions matter more than others, they don't, but we have a much wider perspective of general players sentiment than any random casual player.

Furthermore, feedback from "other sources" is a bit dubious. I can only think of 1 time that I've been asked to provide feedback about something ingame. it was a survey about how i liked an event and whether i thought the prizes and quests are good/balanced etc. I've never had any requests for feedback with respect to any other feature of the game, nor has anyone else that i know personally. And i know a lot of players.... So I'm at a total loss as to where this other feedback is coming from.

If the other source is simply collected user data - remember that all data has to be looked and and understood within a context. Making GBG a 24/7 game feature might have triggered players to get on and play more frequently and for longer amounts of time. But it also could lead to burnout and many players quitting. Ramping up playtime doesn't necessarily mean greater game enjoyment. Right before I retired from regular play, I was playing the most i have ever played. Point being that simple usage data doesn't tell the whole story without asking players how the feel about things. #justsayin

The concerns raised by a Vet is far less likely to be solvable by just changing tactics when playing. Whereas when talking to a new player I can 80% of the time solve the issue by simply explaining game mechanics to them.

Juber, you said it yourself in one of your posts: there’s a underlying fundamental issue. New players aren’t going to be able to give you a underlying fundamental issue unless they‘re particularly perceptive in picking up on issues immediately (even more so given you’re not observing the player in real time, in real life to see their thought patterns as they work things out). That’s something the person receiving feedback would also need to be able to discern: how perceptive is the user giving feedback on the problem? What’s their level of understanding of the problem?

Here’s the thing with feedback from less developed players. The vast majority of new player feedback, it’s going to be surface level stuff. For the vast majority of new players, your biggest takeaway is going to be ease of use and what needs better clarification. The root cause of their frustrations and feedback is more often than not from a lack of understanding how the mechanics work, what options are available and even how to find a mechanic to use it. If you want a deeper level feedback from a new player you’d need to have a conversation with them to dig into the problem to find out whether it’s a mechanics issue or a lack of experience issue

If the game had a solid learning platform (integrated into the game itself), then your new players would have a much better transition into the game and you’d have much better quality of feedback (from new players) as then they’d be able to provide a better informed opinion. As an experienced player I mostly ignore the Splash Screen “info” popups because they rarely if ever offer meaningful info….. When I do read them usually it doesn’t contain what I’m looking for

When talking to new players a very common complaint I hear is lack of info available in the game on how the game mechanics work.

Whereas if you get experience from a vet player you know they likely already understand the game and the issues raised aren’t just surface level, they’re much deeper.

——————

In regards to Guild Battlegrounds, if the problems Inno is trying to solve is from the top tier(s) of the game then it’s the experienced players that will be able to give relevant feedback

if Inno is looking to solve a Guild Battlegrounds issue in regards to entrypoint then you’ll need to talk to newer players to see what their issues are and how to ease them into it better

But here’s the biggest issue of all, if there’s specific problems to specific leagues then Inno needs to create different rules for different leagues. If it’s the same root problem in every league then Inno needs to address the fundamental underlying problem, not window dress it

A generic solution one-size-fits-all-leagues is useless if there’s a issue that only applies to some leagues

Case in point:

Indeed, from copper to low-platinum, the systems work just fine - largely because guilds don't have enough power to dominate an entire map to the exclusion of other guilds.

From high platinum to diamond there's issues. Some innate (that there's so many guilds at 1000-diamond creating a complete lack of parity), others player-created but still up to designers to discourage (that guilds actively try to lose to not reach 1000 in the first place thus promoting guilds that belong even-less to 1000 instead).

It is however not a small number of guilds this impacts - roughly the most active quarter of guilds (=150ish guilds per world) - which likely includes the majority of big spenders..

Removing or changing the % Siege Camps exclusively to the Diamond League would be one step towards solving that issue. Heck, even just limiting every sector in Diamond League to 1 building slot max would reduce camps effectiveness

 

[Owl II]

Removing or changing the % Siege Camps exclusively to the Diamond League would be one step towards solving that issue. Heck, even just limiting every sector in Diamond League to 1 building slot max would reduce camps effectiveness

This will limit the amount of fights, one way or another. This is great, because the it has tired everyone. But how will this solve the main problem - the match of rivals in groups? Is this still the main problem, or did I miss something?

 

[Noname 5.0]

All I want to tell you is to off Caps and stop thinking what if they give you a bench to make you seem taller, you will be able to compete with those who are older. if you've actually been playing sports, you'll understand this. Also: you can't know anything about my guild and my game. Except what you see on beta. Beta is just a test server for most of us. So stop fantast

For the the life of me I can’t understand what you have ever said made any sense standing on a bench to make one taller has nothing to do with the fact you said I hide in my HQ without out attacking. I’m pointing out the fact that leagues don’t play against leagues that are not in their leagues. Just like small guilds should not play against larger guilds .
You should have your translator check as nothing you have said to me has made any sense.
Their no longer any point arguing with someone that doesn’t understand that there should be a separate league for guilds of equal strengths . It been fun chatting with you but you will never understand what I’m try to say n I have no ideas of the points you are trying to make. Since we will once again meet on the field of battleground I will again try n explain why matching guilds the way they do it now will be the death of guild battleground.
I thank you for your time n comments even though I couldn’t understand what you were thinking.

 

[Emberguard]

This will limit the amount of fights, one way or another. This is great, because the it has tired everyone. But how will this solve the main problem - the match of rivals in groups? Is this still the main problem, or did I miss something?

I’d say there’s two main issues. (1) the ability to steamroll a map (2) power disparity / matchmaking

Both issues feed into each other. Solving one of those two problems won’t necessarily be a complete solution on its own and would still likely need addressing separately, but addressing one issue would likely reduce the effect of the other problem.