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Feedback The Virgo Project / Stargazer

HossamAly

Merchant
On a test server, Everything needs to be tried out :)
Just saying

Sure. Testing for bugs or unintended behaviour. It's what the server is for. Do I need to test whether a guaranteed success in 3 fights without much loss, when I do ~150 fights a day, is going to justify the cost? I'd say not. I hope people will test it. But I think you can easily form an opinion based on the published stats. I never tested a Colosseum either
 

Feanor II

Baronet
I'm curious. Out of all the players saying they won't build either GB, or that they are worthless, how many of you actually built either GB here on Beta to test it? I'm not taking sides, I am genuinely curious.
Thanks all :)

I am camped in CE on Beta and obviously haven't built them, so please take my opinion with a grain of salt (I only play Beta for the sneak peek at events). However, here are my thoughts on them:

Stargazer: By the time most players reach VF, goods have generally become a minor concern, if at all. On my Live worlds, I already have huge stockpiles of VF. The goods numbers would have to come up to make this thing worthwhile. In addition, it's usually fairly easy to trade down at the top levels.

Virgo Project: IMO, this GB is going to be vastly overrated. Which I'm perfectly happy about; I expect a steady trade in selling VP/SA:M goods packages to boost the GBs I actually care about. The Virgo Project is essentially "you get this battle for free". It will be the shiny new toy everybody wants. However, consider these points:
-The probability and chances are extremely low. At level 10, it's likely to give an average of just over 1 per day. Who cares? A lot of players who are advanced enough to get the resources to build this thing do dozens, sometimes hundreds of battles per day. One free one is insignificant in the grand scheme. Imagine if the VP "hits" against an 8-spear army? LOL.
-This is already essentially available from the Kraken. If you can't beat a DA with one of them knocked out ahead of time, you really shouldn't be going into that fight anyway. However, unlike the Kraken, there is no useful collection, and the number of opportunities is drastically reduced.
-The only real point of this thing is to get through massive defense bonuses in PvP. So it's not useless, but it is limited to very select circumstances.

I should note an important point here. I'm not saying these GBs are bad. They're certainly not Gaea Statue/Colosseum level. Nor is building them an issue; as I stated previously goods are not a concern for most SA:M players. The concern is that leveling them will require thousands of Forge Points that otherwise could have gone to more essential GBs! It's not that they're not worth it per se; it's that they're not worth re-directing resources to.

Some closing thoughts:
-Innogames is going to get a ton of hate on the Virgo Project in the form of "I spent years building up my PvP defense, now you give a GB that can destroy it all!" I genuinely feel sorry for the in-game moderators who are going to be flooded with tickets from people who think "Contact Support" is the appropriate venue to whine and moan about a game feature they don't like.
-Either of these GBs would become worthwhile with a Kraken-esque Forge Point collection bonus. Innogames refused to offer a FP-producing GB in VF, now we won't get one for SA:M either. At SA:M level, FPs are by far the #1 resource people are looking for.
-If we were to evaluate GBs based solely on "special combat bonus" (and only the bonus), I'd rate them as 1) AO 2) Kraken 3) Virgo. However, not only is Virgo the weakest bonus (based on the extremely limited number of "hits"), it doesn't give FPs while both AO and Kraken do. So IMO it's not even in the same conversation as the other 2.
-Need to add a caveat; my strategy on my Main world is to not build "novelty/gimmick" GBs and instead focus on leveling the fundamentals. I even deleted ToR, leading many in my guild to ask if I'd lost my mind. Most SA:M-level players have more GBs than I do, so I expect they may be more favorably disposed towards these two than I am.
 
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DeletedUser9982

Guest
Sure. Testing for bugs or unintended behaviour. It's what the server is for. Do I need to test whether a guaranteed success in 3 fights without much loss, when I do ~150 fights a day, is going to justify the cost? I'd say not. I hope people will test it. But I think you can easily form an opinion based on the published stats. I never tested a Colosseum either

If you dont bother about GBs..why do you come here to this exact topic about these 2 GBs?..
Dont get it
 

DeletedUser9947

Guest
Sure. Testing for bugs or unintended behaviour. It's what the server is for. Do I need to test whether a guaranteed success in 3 fights without much loss, when I do ~150 fights a day, is going to justify the cost? I'd say not. I hope people will test it. But I think you can easily form an opinion based on the published stats. I never tested a Colosseum either

Beta is not only about bugs nor unintended behaviour, is about lots of things to keep this game balanced. These two GBs are one example.
 

HossamAly

Merchant
If you dont bother about GBs..why do you come here to this exact topic about these 2 GBs?..
Dont get it
What exactly in my posts gave you the feeling that I "don't bother"? It's exactly because I bother that I'm providing my opinion!
 

Miepie

Baronet
I'm curious. Out of all the players saying they won't build either GB, or that they are worthless, how many of you actually built either GB here on Beta to test it? I'm not taking sides, I am genuinely curious.
Thanks all :)

I don't need to build it to do the math. I have about 25k each of virtual goods in stock on my main world, so no need for a GB to get more. I have a Kraken that I consider pretty useless exept for the FP it provides. 9 out of 10 times the bonus is used away on GvG while my attack bonusses are more than enough. Don't need it for GE either. Most fights lvl 4 I can autobatlle, then there are about 3 or 4 I do by hand. If this goes for Kraken, it goes for Virgo. So that leaves neighbors with a high defence, but those fights I can still win 1/3 of the time (I win if I take the right army along, so anybody with high defences should still regularly change their defence otherwise they're wasting a lot of space). And then there's the question of how well does the GB pay itself back. Both of them fail big time on that criteria, because they don't. So why on earth would I want to waste space and FP on them?
 

DeletedUser10044

Guest
I have all the very high GB above the 90 level, I have attack more than 650% and I always win, Virgo does not change my life and I will never build it 5X5, occupy precious space for nothing, ..... the only thing it creates is one thing very very negative, it will make me throw the city defense, my and alls, headlights and premium things forever taken for the% defense and GB defense, .... I will use silver for shields every day .... I will not put either of the new GB if they stay like this, .... I am sure they stay that way because they are too proud to change an original idea, we just lose time talking about it now they have decided and will be like this
 

dpghost

Steward
Hi Zarok,
I didn't build it, and won't build it, because it's a waste of space.
4-5 fights when I aim to do 300-400 a day is not relevant
As for the upset players, that complain that their so-called defense is worthless, I'd like to say IT WAS WORTHLESS BEFORE VIRGO
 
I don't need to build it to do the math. I have about 25k each of virtual goods in stock on my main world, so no need for a GB to get more. I have a Kraken that I consider pretty useless exept for the FP it provides. 9 out of 10 times the bonus is used away on GvG while my attack bonusses are more than enough. Don't need it for GE either. Most fights lvl 4 I can autobatlle, then there are about 3 or 4 I do by hand. If this goes for Kraken, it goes for Virgo. So that leaves neighbors with a high defence, but those fights I can still win 1/3 of the time (I win if I take the right army along, so anybody with high defences should still regularly change their defence otherwise they're wasting a lot of space). And then there's the question of how well does the GB pay itself back. Both of them fail big time on that criteria, because they don't. So why on earth would I want to waste space and FP on them?

This! I could not say it better! Thank you
 

DeletedUser7959

Guest
@Zarok Dai , I have Star Gazer here on beta, and it seems like I'm the only one who built it... In general, it has a nice ability but not for SAM. We are used to save tons of goods before going to the next era, and now, since Arctic future, when you downgraded your game by making AF and all next eras goods not needed for GvG it feels even more useless. What's funnier, you somehow came to the point that ability itself is so powerful that the GB doesn't need a 2nd ability. If nothing will change we will salute the 2nd Notre Dame and dev-s wasted time. Especially we, SAM players, that are still looking for the purpose of existing in this game, cause our only and the most lovely job - leveling GBs, is slowly dying, and so we are.
You once said that not every GB must be as good as Arc, and I agree, but it shouldn't be an excuse to make bad GBs just cause you need to do something.
 

DeletedUser6905

Guest
Hii
Sorry I'm not in Space Age Mars on beta, so I do not have these 2 GB
My comment will only be about needing promethium and/or orichalcum for all build new GMs from the Martian era
For me it's an essentiel thing
 
Here some ideas i made on FR foe forum... Sorry for the automatic translation :s

I think we have to start on "bonuses" that give little but allow to change the way of playing: being able to spy a part of the army in defense, to be able to change during the course the duration of a production (without loss time already elapsed), be able to replay a lost battle (with the same troops), randomly substitute a troop of the attacker by one of his own troops (and vice versa), be able to remove a piece of road from a neighbor, be able to remove FPs posed on a current level of GB, randomly give either pop or satisfaction for 24h ...

There are so many ways to reshuffle the cards to breathe new life into the game ...
 

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
On a test server, Everything needs to be tried out :)
Just saying

Well I mean if you want us all to try it out, we all need SAM goods ;)

If you want to organically see who actually builds it and levels it, it's probably fairly representative that very few people are building them on beta. On live people will also make decisions without actually building them whether the effects are something that appeal to them.

Personally, if Virgo Project goes live as is it'll be added to my 'maybe it's time to find a new game' reasons pile ;) Not because it's a bad GB, but because 'instantly kill half an army' as an available effect removes a little more of whatever hope I have left that that the developers might still make interesting content.
 

qaccy

Emperor
I'm gonna cut through the crap here. If a GB doesn't provide an attack boost or FP generation, people are going to complain about it not being good enough. So the clear solution here is to change the bonuses of both SAM GBs to provide one or both of these things. In addition, please do the same for all future GBs.

Is the above interesting? Nope, not at all. But it's what everybody seems to want these days.
 

DeletedUser9982

Guest
I'm gonna cut through the crap here. If a GB doesn't provide an attack boost or FP generation, people are going to complain about it not being good enough. So the clear solution here is to change the bonuses of both SAM GBs to provide one or both of these things. In addition, please do the same for all future GBs.

Is the above interesting? Nope, not at all. But it's what everybody seems to want these days.

100% with you!
Give some FPs to one of these GBs
Everyone will like it
 

DeletedUser10044

Guest
They are building something senseless, (virgo project) that will make the work done for years a nullity, of course I hope that with the release of Virgo there will be no more rewards % for defending the prizes and events, because everyone will destroy them from their cities, would be useful as getting projects Notre Dame from me :(
maybe they want to see city full of taverns shields? will see them ...

it would not surprise me that in a few years they will propose that the sanctuaries of knowledge produce other things :)
but now I expect it, maybe in a few months the GB will be leveled without FP but in other ways :)

I'm kidding,
maybe :)
 
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