Feedback The Virgo Project / Stargazer

[Centurion02]

Here I also describe what I wrote in the Mars Feedback.

Everywhere it says unnecessary urban protection. But it's not unnecessary. It is true that there is no impenetrable protection, but in most cases it will work. There are 75 neighbors, of which about 2 or 3 can protect my break through my main world. If I don't have the big city protection, the remaining 72 will break through. And it doesn't matter whether they are deprived 2-3 times a day or 70 times a day. Great protection is great. The 3-day shield set at the inn is not a solution. It takes 3 full days to activate other bonuses, you should spend 50 diamonds if you want to activate another bonus. Anyone who regularly spends silver on it will quickly run out if he puts on the expensive 27,000 silver shields for 3 days. Daily quests are asking you to spend that much and so much silver or activate 3 bonuses. If the shield is set, the quest can only be done with diamond spending.
You need to change your Virgo Project urgently, or else many years of work by many players will ruin what you have sacrificed for protection.
Those who say that urban protection is unnecessary, they are wrong. There is no way that you can collect everything in time, do not save the city after 100p, you have to spend to continue harvesting. It's a lot of time, it's time for the neighbor to get rid of it. 5 diamonds can save you all at once, but this is not the solution. Large urban protection must minimize the danger.

 

[DeletedUser10037]

First of all these Great-Buldiungs are too weak for now.

Look:
https://www.forge-db.com/de/de7/players/profile/?server=de7&world=Greifental&id=2716911

I'm a really expermintal Player. I give each GB a Chance an for my reason some "trash" GB are quite good for me. For example the Tower of Babel and Frauenkirche. They are cheap to bring it level 80 Babel round about 25.000 FP and Frauenkirche 30.000 FP. Sounds a lot but in relation to my Arc its pretty cheap.

But the Virgo Porject and especially the Star Gazer is pretty much expensive in Relation to these Bulidungs (Cost round about 50.000 FP from 1-80).
And its also hard to sell this kinds of goods from VF to a good course. Then the problem is the VF good market is complet overfulled an the sell prices to sell it for FP is pretty low. (At the moment i sell the Castel, TF each for 325 FP).

So it makes for now no SENSE to build this. My mathematical logic say no don't build it.
And round about 190 goods at level 80 is not great.^^
Thats not truth Inno to say it brings a very good amount of goods^^
The Rainforest Project givs at 80 over 200 goods by the half FP costs


And the Virgo Project ist for me at the moment complet useless. I destroy each lazy neighbor in autofight. (My attack at the moment over 500%/ Defense 264%) Also Krak and AO level 80^^. So its useless also in GE 4.

My meanings to improve the GBs:

Virgo Project.
Increase the amount of fights
Give them a better second bonus
-Simple one FP everybody likes more FP^^
Other option a %-defense boost for your attacking and city army.

Star Gazer:
Double up the Stats for good production after level 10 not 2 goods. Better 4 or 5 goods. So then it would be hard to decision for me to say no to the GB. I think i would say to 98% i will have this GB.

Other option
Let the good production how it is and give them a coin boost like Markus Basilica only a bit higher round about 50% more then i would build both of these GBs.

Or very pragmatic said. A bronce-age LB should NOT be better in the META-Ranklist then a Mars-GB. Thats my personal opinion.

LG Markus

 

[Hiep Lin]

With the current GB we already have:
more offensive bonuses than necessary,
more goods than necessary,
more medals than necessary,
more fp than necessary,
more gold and supplies than necessary.

What a GB could give to be useful again:
A new defensive effect against the rogues (2000% and Arctic Orangery = 0 against 1 rogue: it changes like with 0%)
This would make the challenge of defending his city accessible.

The other element of the game that the GB does not increase is guild power (as hall of fame). It would be a real innovation.

 

[Cardena]

We do not have enough goods for GvG in lower eras. So what about a GB with the ability of Observatory but with the goods being random of one of the eras the Guild has sectors in? Since it would be a GB of higher era perhaps the amount should be equal to Arc?

 

[iPenguinPat]

As is, neither GB will be popular on the live servers.

If these buildings were in earlier ages, they wouldn't be terrible. The main issue is the cost doesn't justify the benefit. 3000 goods is a lot. Each GB should be very powerful. Neither of these is anything special. The only people crying about TVP are neighborhood bullies. Everyone else thinks it needs more charges, or it's going to be next to useless. It's a very niche use; it makes no sense to build as is.

"Wow, i can spend 3000 SAM goods and thousands of FP to have a chance win against my neighborhood bully to maybe plunder 5fp or 10 goods. That's a GREAT deal" - said no one ever. This is DOA as is.

It's been a long time since a GB had population. Either one of these GBs with pop would be much better. The bonus would be better than Habitat and would accommodate the much higher population reqs of SAM, whether it's needed for goods or barracks. It would be useful for both high-end players and more low end/casual players.

TVP having any defense effect would need it to switch to an unlimited use setup like AO. That would make it an instant top choice, even if it was a chance of 1-4 getting killed. The main downside is that's a lot of randomness from fight to fight. AO, Kraken, SAM unit bonus, and then another one that's 1-4? Not hating. Just trying to see the big picture.

Re: Attacking vs. Defending. Yes, there are more GB's that focus on attack (what most players care about), but the defense boost is much more accessible via RFs. I've never heard of anyone with 1800 attack. Until recently, 600%attack seemed unreachable, but it's a piece of cake to get 800-1000% defense if you want. If someone wanted to waste enough of their city to get 1800-2000% defense they could. It's just an extremely inefficient style of play (unless it's gained via diamonds/event buildings).

Here's my city profile: https://foestats.com/us/us10/players/profile/?server=us10&world=Korch&id=12678065

 

[Wanheda Stella]

I agree 100% with the above post^
Tbh, I am glad these GBs are trash so that I don't have to build them.. Lol.. Maybe not a good thing after all, but yeah.. I'm just saying they are really bad.. But people have come with good suggestions and points in this thread, so I support that...

 

[MagicMiam]

Hi there

Here's my personal point of view :

The Virgo Project

I have read a lot of players complaining, because they spend a lot of space in their city, and time in events, to build a strong defense.
Defense that will be wrecked if 4 units get killed from the beginning.
I can understand that, even if I don't feel involved as I never defended my city - I think it is a very inefficient strategy.
Maybe reworking the bonus to give it some defensive power would be nice.

I don't think this GB is very good except precisely for defeating very well defended neighbors, but is that worth spending so mush FP for only 5 chances per day ? Seems a little weak to me. IMO this GB needs a rework.

Also, some players complain about the active collection being coins, but I personally don't care if the passive boost is good. Not all GB can give FP, and there are not so many options for the active collection bonus on a GB.

The Stargazer
This one seems OK to me, I like the idea of the -1 age refined goods collection. Especially if it gets more interesting when entering the next space age.
Maybe it is still a little weak (compared to the Cape for example : 4x5 for only 1 collection bonus which is way better)
Why not adding a passive boost as well, not something too crazy ? For example, %boost on coins, like St Mark ? We have 2 GB for %supplies and only one for coins.

----
I also have some more feedback from another player of the French community that asked me to translate here :

It's unfortunate that TVP gives the bonus only to attacking troops and not to city defense, which would make the game more challenging for heavy plunderers.

It's also unfortunate that the Stargazer gives goods. Advanced players in SA:M have no problems with getting lots of goods, as well as coins, supplies, or satisfaction.
However, if it added a bonus to all luck-based rewards that are in the game, like in daily challenges or events, OR if this GB gave guild crowns, it could be interessting.

----
And an other one :

Like the player above and @hiep lin[another French player ] here,
i think it would be nice to have a new défensive GB. It could be the counterpart of Kraken or Virgo - I would prefer kraken, but with an unlimited Number of chances per Day -, or a GB that would give the possibility of setting a 2nd wave of defense.

The other good bonus for the collection could be guild crowns.

If it has to be a new GB for plunderers, something like Voyager V1, but better, would be nice. It is possible to beat most city defenses now with a good attack bonus, but there is not often something good to plunder. With such a GB, that would be solved.

It could be also a GB that would allow to transforme Promethium and Orichalcum into something useful (because right now, when the tech tree is finished, what we can collect is way more that what we need). Such a GB interesting as even if it can be built is lower ages, it would be only useful in high eras...

That's 4 ideas. A GB can have 2 bonuses, so those can all be chosen

 

[Amdira]

To be honest, although I haven't reached SAM and in general I like to have higher GBs, I would have prefered, when the new GBs would have been limited to SAM players and/or giving at least one bonus which is only useful to SAM or higher eras. Now I see Virgos in EMA and I'm not sure whether this is the right way. A second bonus for both would be great.

For Virgo - as already suggested - a defense bonus, which would make it a bit more attractive and fair

For Star Gazer maybe Ore would be great (and in higher eras the equivalent additive)

 

[Beta-OD]

I also have not reached SAM so to an extent, I shouldn't comment but I will anyway as I'm someone who buys them ahead of time for the most part.

Maybe one of their secondary bonus could be tied to Space going forward. Maybe they can give a % boost to Life Support and could also boost SAC. I don't think every boost needs to be useful for every age.

 

[Darth Vader The Mighty]

I will only give opinion on Virgo. If it stays as it is, I will not build it. I can already beat EVERYTHING I need on my live server with my current setup. So why should I waste valuable space and thousands of FPs to build this? I don't need it's "krakenlike" bonus and I certainly don't need coins. Put there FPs as 2nd bonus and completely change main bonus and then it will be worth it.

 

[Logain Sedai]

Here is my opionion on the Virgo project.

I don't know yet if I will put it in my city on live servers but I think this GB is OK as it is.

As @Darth Vader The Mighty wrote, it might be not interesting by strong players who already beat their neighborhood and win their EG and GVG fights easily. So for the ones who get defeated, it does not change anything (the extent of your defeat does not matter).

On the attacker side, TVP might bring some help on the campaign map, GE and even this annoying neighbor that you almost defeat but lose by a few units (here is your chance to claim victory !!!).

It is true that it is a very expensive GB to build, but for me it is OK that a GB is difficult to get. This way, there might not be hundreds of TVP at 80 level within a few weeks.

My only negative input is that I don't like much its look. After beautiful GB like the Galaxy, the Himeji to name a few, I am a bit disappointed by its look (my apologies to person who designed it )

 

[DeletedUser9410]

more fp than necessary,

Can never have more fp's than necessary

 

[DeletedUser10039]

Do you want me to cut and paste (from the original feedback thread) my 50 posts about how the TVP will ruin the game for all those players that spent years building up city defence? The TVP has only one good use and that is to completely destroy players that went full defence in this game. I can not see many building it to just kill NPC's, which I can kill with both hands tied behind my back as it is. This is a city defence killer plain and simple. If it remains as it is, then years of work/coins would be for nothing and I will not continue paying your wages for you to completely destroy my game/enjoyment.

Some players went full attack and some went full defence. In my world this GB will be used on me by everyone who builds it, every single day of the year as I went full defence. People who went full attack already have extra attack GB's, can kill GE, GVG, Maps easier. So the tough way to play this game is going defence and now that will be totally destroyed in 1 click of a button.

 

[Prom d Exolandia]

I hoped that new GB needed promethium and orichalcum to be built. I'm disapointed

I do not like the Virgo GB, there are already too many GBs giving offensive bonuses and the defense is too disguised in this game.
For me it is necessary either to make sure that the bonus Virgo does not apply in pvp or that the bonus Virgo also works in defense of city.

As for the Stargazer, why not ...

As a new feature of GB I would see the opportunity to protect a building against looting during 8h or 24h, or the possibility of defending our city in 2 waves, also a bonus that removes the FP contribution on trade exchanges

 

[DeletedUser6015]

first tell us the true story that a few playeres are afraided of being attacked, many looting they did?
we do not need more defenses
we do not need more campers or farmers or lazy playeres protected by the huge defense
We need more pf's
Give us a PROPER COLONY not the Vikings or the Colony of Mars

 

[iPenguinPat]

So the tough way to play this game is going defense and now that will be totally destroyed in 1 click of a button.

1 Click? Really? It's not like it doesn't also cost 3000 SAM goods, thousands of FP, for a % chance.

Try to step back and look at the big picture. Yes, Technically, it *could* make it easier for someone to beat your defense. No one in their right mind is going to waste all those resources for "bragging rights" that they beat your city defense.

Adding a defensive effect to TVP won't fix the issue. It won't make the GB anymore appealing to 99% of the people who have access to it because PvP is such a small part of the game.

Here's some data for you:
https://forum.en.forgeofempires.com...-of-great-buildings.11260/page-11#post-333674
This list gives the combined levels of each GB for the top 10 players across 2 worlds (simply put, it's the GBs top players level)
Deal Castle (127) and SBC (206). Its likely 2 players out of 20 with DC and 3 out of 20 with SBC. Also note that these GBs are virtually free regarding goods and -very- cheap to level.
For perspective, Coa, the lowest ranked attack building is 1030. That's more than 3x the combined amount of DC/SBC.

Conclusion: Top players don't care about city defense

A defense effect doesn't address the main issue anyway - it only has a combat use 3-5 times per day. For anyone that regularly fights, that's not enough to make it worth it. If that stays the same, no one will build it, and you can rest easy.

If they add FP as a second bonus, you better believe everyone will build it because people will build anything that gives FP. Adding population makes more sense for several reasons:
1) Pop requirements for advanced ages has skyrocketed. Fighters need population for barracks. Casual players need population for goods/supply buildings to be able to keep progressing. It's not a bonus that everyone will want, so that keeps it from being a "no brainer" building like it would be with FP.
2) Pop would deter earlier age players from building it. With a decent amount of population, it would be nearly impossible for an early age camper to level both inno and TVP and still keep at 120% happiness. Along with the steep cost, that could help keep from seeing these in baby cities.

 

[DeletedUser10039]

You just proved my point thank you. Most players follow the attack route in this game (the easier path) I followed the harder, defensive path, which not many do as its a lot harder to defend than attack.

The players who cheat and cyber bully on my world, will have TVP up to lvl 40+ within 24 hours of it being released on Live servers. (they have millions of FP's saved up from all their alt and push accounts and from scripted plundering for the last few years.) {For clarity I am talking about the top players in the world and we are all in VF Age}

I am commenting about my world and my experiences. I can not comment about other worlds that I do not play on. If you play on a nice fluffy world where everyone is nice and plays by the rules then well done you. But on the world I play on the TVP will completely destroy my fun of this game. Unless I tear down everything I have spend time/money on for the last few years and start my city as an attacking city which is what INNO is basically telling us we need to do now.

I understand from playing on-line games for 30 years that companies can change/tweak/nerf items you already have, but to completely destroy half my city in 1 update is way to much to handle.

 

[Miepie]

Virgo: on the one hand too powerfull, no good defence against it. On the other very limited. At this stage only useful for over-the-top defence neighbours. But then, how many days of plunder will it take before it has payed itself back? Any player considering building it for the GE is better off building stargazer and leveling up CF for negotiating their way through.

Possible change 1: give an x % chance to poison the complete opposition with radiation poisoning, working before the start of the turn, taking away 1 or lifepoints and reducing defence with y %. This might also work on defence but only if it's use is unlimited for both attacker and defender like Arctic Orangery
Possible change 2: give x % chance to reduce defence values with 25 or 50% for all units. Either limited in use for offence of unlimited for both offence and defence

But it does need some FP as second bonus to make it worth it.

Stargazer: it's not really that bad I guess but it would be better if we had a choice on which previous age we'd receive the goods. Most players ready for space have spend the last few months gathering virtual goods, so for those players it's not gonna be a high priority GB this way

 

[DeletedUser9982]

You know what? Im gonna stop coming here to read this topic
Theres always those people that instead of saying something helpfull, they waste their time telling us the obvios!

"Uhhh Why do we need to talk about Virgo and Star Gazer? Im not gonna build both of them because both GBs suck, DUUUHHHHH"

How mad can you be to say this kind of things, in this topic, that was opened by the DEVs for US to discuss a way to improve both GBs?
Please.. Everyone.. Just give the DEVs valid ideas

Thank You

 

[Miepie]

You just proved my point thank you. Most players follow the attack route in this game (the easier path) I followed the harder, defensive path, which not many do as its a lot harder to defend than attack.

The players who cheat and cyber bully on my world, will have TVP up to lvl 40+ within 24 hours of it being released on Live servers. (they have millions of FP's saved up from all their alt and push accounts and from scripted plundering for the last few years.) {For clarity I am talking about the top players in the world and we are all in VF Age}

I am commenting about my world and my experiences. I can not comment about other worlds that I do not play on. If you play on a nice fluffy world where everyone is nice and plays by the rules then well done you. But on the world I play on the TVP will completely destroy my fun of this game. Unless I tear down everything I have spend time/money on for the last few years and start my city as an attacking city which is what INNO is basically telling us we need to do now.

I understand from playing on-line games for 30 years that companies can change/tweak/nerf items you already have, but to completely destroy half my city in 1 update is way to much to handle.

Most players choose the farmers route. And you're accusing people of cheating and bullying for playing the game the way it is. Making all kinds of accusations you cannot prove. Get over it. If anybody is prepared to invest this amount of FP in this building just to annoy you, I'd say that's a good reason for a good laugh. Wouldn't be very smart and you'd still be better off for loosing some goods or FP every now and then to those folks than they are for building it.