Feedback The Virgo Project / Stargazer

[DeletedUser10044]

Why we have to building the Virgo project,?
it is a whim, very expensive,
5x5 is used EXCLUSIVELY against strong defending players, who have the "guilt" of having invested money and time and virtual resources, to created the city's defenses ... or for those only 2 difficult battles of expeditions , but once the expeditions are over they will use them always for those 2 or 3 strong players in defense,
don't waste it on weak defenses
Ok ok, probably we create new bullies, ok but now, the strong defence players will put citizens tavern's shields, and what will you do with Virgo? only for 2 expedition battle? or for the supply of coins....


I suggest:

1)create GB defensive, style deal and basilium
2)create second wave defense mode,
3)create unlimited %mode as an orangery to infiltrate and reduce enemy life points
or new ways how to steal an army if you win,
4)create kraken for defense
5)create similar alcatraz that helps% select favorite produced troops
6)or extend number of random attempts of the original Virgo project as current orangery but PLEASE remove on the PVP this % bonus

 

[DeletedUser9982]

Why we have to building the Virgo project,?
it is a whim, very expensive,
5x5 is used EXCLUSIVELY against strong defending players, who have the "guilt" of having invested money and time and virtual resources, to created the city's defenses ... or for those only 2 difficult battles of expeditions , but once the expeditions are over they will use them always for those 2 or 3 strong players in defense,
don't waste it on weak defenses
Ok ok, probably we create new bullies, ok but now, the strong defence players will put citizens tavern's shields, and what will you do with Virgo? only for 2 expedition battle? or for the supply of coins....


I suggest:

1)create GB defensive, style deal and basilium
2)create second wave defense mode,
3)create unlimited mode as an orangery to infiltrate and reduce enemy life points
or new ways how to steal an army if you win,
4)create kraken for defense
5)create similar alcatraz that helps% select favorite produced troops
6)or extend number of random attempts of the original Virgo project as current orangery but PLEASE remove on the PVP this % bonus

You forgot Forge Points bonus

 

[DeletedUser10073]

Both new GB are niche products. I cant imagine building either of them in their current state in my cities.

Virgo: I dont see any need for any further military buff. In its current state Virgo is very limited due to the low amount of charges. If you wanna make it more versatile you need to decrease the power of its devastating effect and increase the number of charges. And please... add any other second bonus instead of coins. Who the hell needs coins???

Stargazer: In general i like the idea of previous era goods. However, SG is in a terrible spot since CH, SV, BG and CF are much more efficient. So, why should anyone build SG as long as cheaper GB are much better? This means, SG needs to be buffed. At first, the amount of goods should be increased at least by 50% if you add a second bonus, or by 100% if you don't. I'd prefer a 50% buff and additional a huge amount of happiness(15-20k at level 10). Especially traders need some happiness as long as new event buildings provide massive amounts of population.

 

[LastWarrior]

Now if only you would listen, then act, wouldnt we be pleased.
The Stargazer must have a second boost of some sort, atm its basically useless for most.
As for the Virgo its a great idea but waaay to powerful.
A second boost is nice but coins? Lets add them to the gazillions most of us have. That needs to be rethought please.
Keep up the good work
great game
Warrior

 

[griaxe]

Addition to my Virgo suggestion:
IF the 2nd (gradual) wave is implemented for city defence then in order to make it less shocking for an attacker it could have only 50% of the defender’s total defence bonus ... just a thought

 

[Feanor II]

I'm gonna cut through the crap here. If a GB doesn't provide an attack boost or FP generation, people are going to complain about it not being good enough. So the clear solution here is to change the bonuses of both SAM GBs to provide one or both of these things. In addition, please do the same for all future GBs.

Is the above interesting? Nope, not at all. But it's what everybody seems to want these days.

To quote Bruce Willis in Whole Nine Yards, "Well...yeah!" (looked for it as a GIF but couldn't find one).

The issue isn't quite as clear-cut as you make it here, but the general point is that new content must not only be good, it must be an improvement on the existing options. SA:M players will have been playing the game for years, so they have a lot of very good options already. At SA:M level, the game at this point is almost exclusively about raising GB levels and fighting your enemies. Yes, of course there are exceptions for different play styles, but I think this is a general rule for most players. If the new content offers a significant improvement in attaining either of those 2 objectives, it's worth investing Forge Points in. If it doesn't, it's not. And neither of these 2 do. Virgo does have an offensive boost (obviously) but the chances/probabilities are so low it won't have a serious impact.

 

[DeletedUser8880]

How about having the Stargazer work like a Traz but with goods rather than a barracks That way if you need goods of a certain era then build it and collect the extra And perhaps as a secondary Bonus either guild Shields or Crowns .
As for the Virgo .... far to expensive for the amount of hits for basically battles you would have won anyway. Why dont they come up with something for GE and make the thing a Guild building ie gives an attack boost for the whole guild in GE per level This would get the bigger players helping the smaller players woudnt have to a big bonus each level something in the region of .02 a level or a little less A level 10 would give .2 attack boost to whole guild 5 players with level 10s an extra 1 % .And again give it a second bonus of crowns
Yes Fps would be nice but we have loads anyway

 

[DeletedUser9573]

How about having the Stargazer work like a Traz but with goods rather than a barracks That way if you need goods of a certain era then build it and collect the extra And perhaps as a secondary Bonus either guild Shields or Crowns .

That is unique and sort of new ... i like the idea and the crowns would be nice as well to bring the guild faster further

 

[Wanheda Stella]

Oh come on guys not always that Mimimi.

Its always the same thats to strong, thats unfair.
I don't see any reason to change the main boost from the virgio its not unbalcend. And for me the new Lb is nothing changing.

Me without Virgo in NB:
https://www.bilder-upload.eu/bild-333085-1556926390.png.html
https://www.bilder-upload.eu/bild-a19571-1556926415.png.html

Sometimes win with lots of cololteral damage
Sometime with non in auto-fight

I'm curious, what kind of stats did the attacker have..? But that really makes me reevaluate the decision of building city defense.. If that doesn't stop attackers, then I don't know what does... I think a change of defending AI is really necessary...

 

[DeletedUser5097]

Since we are getting a lot of feedback on the 2 new GB's The Virgo Project & Stargazer :
we would like to ask all of you to put your feedback in this new thread so it will be easier for us to compile all your comments in our reports.

I will try to move previous comments in [Feedback] Space Age: Mars! on the above GB's to this thread as well, but that may take me a while...

Virgo Project

My suggestion:
Remove option for ussing the skill in PvP (this avoids the entire discussion about PvP ballance)
Adding some attemps (for compensation)
Increassing the chance for launch a bit, I prefer to 50% at lvl 10 or as others asked as high as Kraken's chances (for compansation)

My favorite suggestion from an other player:
- Instead of instant 4 kills reducing hp of entire army a bit

Yet I would like to see if my favorite suggestion from an another player would be ussed, that this is only
like infiltration (-1 or -2 hp for entire hostile army). As it's a bit unclear for me what was suggested, since many
repeating themself and others, I would like to see it working like Kraken. Decant ammount of attemps and
decant chance for launch. If it would also work defensive more like AO ofc.

Star Gazer

Feedback:
The output is a bit low compared to the high needs and especialy when competing the powerfull CF
wich can outclass almost any good producing GB with missions. The biggest problem of this GB what
is making it even weaker is the lack of any passive boost. While the cape does lack also an passive
bonus it goes strong enough with it's production.
Based of my above oppinion I would like to suggest something, even while it's just repeatting others.
However about the passive bonus I strongly disagreed for an new passive bonus for this GB, since it
already has a new and unique active bonus.

Suggestion:

> Increase goods output
> Adding an passive bonus*

*A few ideas:
Happines, it's a bit weak and undesired bonus but at least it is something
Coin bonus, it's already suggested but this GB would save a lot of extra costs in the space program(s)
Supp bonus, it's may already suggested but since the GB saves ressources for the space program(s)
it may also boost the supplies output

============

As suggested before I would like to bring in my ideas for an GB enabling an second defensive wave,
yet I would like to said that I strongly prefer my altarnative for this. Anyways under the spoiler I did put
this:

Spoiler: Extra unit slots with GB

General PvP ballance feedback. As been said before, an GB that could add an second wave for the
defence would be great. I would like to suggest to enable the up to 8 units on lvl 10. After wich every
30 levels above lvl 10 may give 1 extra unit slot up to 4 units in the 3th deffending army. However every extra
''wave'' defence bonus would be reduced by 50% of the cities defensive bonusses. While the first wave
has the full benefit. So in my proposal:

Example: default 60% att/90% def for city defence bonus
Lvl 10
1th wave: 60/90%
2nd wave 30/45%
3th wave 15/22%

An other limmitation should be that an hard cap for max. extra defensive unit slots should be in
place. Personal I think 8 would be best but maybe 12 would be better for compansating VP and
the stupid AI.

Unit slots example:

Lvl 10:
+8 extra defensive units slots (full second deffending wave)
Lvl 10
90 levels above lvl 10 : 30 (+1 unit slot/30 levels above 10) = 3
+11 extra defending unit slots (having 3 waves, the first 2 have 8 units, the last only 3)

The huge ammount of bringing the GB higher up beyond lvl 10 for getting even more unit slots and
the reduced benefit of city defence bonusses is for making it not heavely OP. The reasson for suggesting
to grand full second wave on lvl 10 is for making it possible for every one to get an reassonable defence
but for slightly better imrpovments requiring huge ammounts of fp's.

Shorted version suggested bonus:
> Extra unit deffending unit slots
> 8 extra unit defending slots on lvl 10, 1 more for every 30 lvls beyond lvl 10
> Second wave defensive bonusses are reduced with 50%
> Optional cap 8 extra defending units on lvl 10, no futher improvment of passive bonus beyond lvl 10

Altarnative:
>Unlocking extra unit slots in the TT up to 8 extra unit slots over 8 diffrent ages
Or
>Unlocking extra unit slots with new settlements, up to 8 exta unit slots

>I added this idea because it's related to PvP ballance, created by VP<

Oh come on guys not always that Mimimi.

Its always the same thats to strong, thats unfair.
I don't see any reason to change the main boost from the virgio its not unbalcend. And for me the new Lb is nothing changing.

Me without Virgo in NB:
https://www.bilder-upload.eu/bild-333085-1556926390.png.html
https://www.bilder-upload.eu/bild-a19571-1556926415.png.html

Sometimes win with lots of cololteral damage
Sometime with non in auto-fight

Me with Virgo:
https://www.bilder-upload.eu/bild-333085-1556926390.png.html
https://www.bilder-upload.eu/bild-a19571-1556926415.png.html

My Result to the new LB for now at the moment

https://www.bilder-upload.eu/bild-c94156-1556926624.png.html

Intressting... how did u get an Virgo on the German live server? If I'm looking into the screenshots
I read german unit discription and in the chat the same thing. While the Beta is Englisch in every way
and the only place at this moment where you can get Virgo...

 

[Miepie]

Remove option for ussing the skill in PvP (this avoids the entire discussion about PvP balance)

It would also remove the last reason to build it

 

[Teak]

Implementing a second wave def would be way too op.

You don't know what the defending army consists off, so the deffending player has kind of an advantage.
With 2 waves it will be impossible to kill a def:
How would you fight a def like e.g. 4 heavy 4 flying || 4 arti 4 cloaked

Edit:
No def & harvest on point is the cheapest and most efficent def- stop blamin others, that u are too inconsistent to collect your city.
The possibly plundered goods or FPs would be easily compensated with the space you get instead of raising your def to 1000 and above - and even then a High-end player will finish ur def auto-fight.

 

[DeletedUser9982]

Again for those who missed:

Hi

First of all, thank you for the oportunity that you are giving us to "try" to change this GBs

Virgo, my opinion:

Swap the coins for Forge Points,
This new GBs are starting to take a lot of FPs to level up

The Missile bonus, i suggest 3 options:

Nr 1 - Add a second wave to defend our cities so this bonus would be acceptable the way it is
Nr 2 - Make it work only for the second wave of any fight ( campaign map or GE )
Nr 3 - instead of killing 4 units, why not a probability between 1 and 4 units
Description example:
Level 10 you have 35% chance of killing 1 to 4 troops of the enemy army

Notice that i havent ignored the bonus itself because i think it can work, but not this way

Star Gazer - It needs another bonus, otherwise its just horrible the way it is
I suggest a bonus that reduces the enemies army defense gradually
Like level 10, any army would lose -30% defense as you start a fight..
That would work for GE, hood and campaign

Thank you again

 

[Miepie]

Repeating yourself doesn't make your idea better than the first time. I do hope the developers will read all suggestions made. And your idea has the same flaw as many others, it doesn't make virgo really better (exept for the fp). Just a bit less appaling for that relatively small group who went completely over the top on defence for their city and now fears their work undone. If that's the main goal, just don't bring it out, no virgo in the game, problem solved

 

[Feanor II]

Virgo: I dont see any need for any further military buff. In its current state Virgo is very limited due to the low amount of charges. If you wanna make it more versatile you need to decrease the power of its devastating effect and increase the number of charges.

They already have that-it's called The Kraken. And it gives FPs

 

[DeletedUser5097]

Implementing a second wave def would be way too op.

Killing more than half an deffending army wich has stupid AI is also way too OP.

You don't know what the defending army consists off, so the deffending player has kind of an advantage.

Having an GB that kills 1 random unit at the start of the battle and having another GB ghat can kill 4 units
at the begin is also kind of an huge advantage. Oh wait did I forgot that it's an huge advantage that the AI
is too stupid for words to descrip wich is also and major advantage and having the rouges for taking that
advantage too? Also easy sollution for your ''advantage'' problem: just scout what the deffender
has

With 2 waves it will be impossible to kill a def:
How would you fight a def like e.g. 4 heavy 4 flying || 4 arti 4 cloaked

Wrong eassy:
1 flying unit 7 rouges
First wave is eassy, second peace of cake. In the second wave your dealling with 50% reduced
city defence bonusses and you can ignore artil because they can't hit flying. If Kraken kicks in
and/or even VP it's even eassier. Don't forget the stupid AI how would let the heavy run a bit
like chickens without a head and anything that is stealth placing it in an potition in wich you can
eassely hit them.

The possibly plundered goods or FPs would be easily compensated with the space you get instead of raising your def to 1000 and above - and even then a High-end player will finish ur def auto-fight.

Exactly you confirmt the great need for an second wave army, otherwise it wouldn't be so stupid
easy to win, thank you next.

1th wave - high end-game players would kill of 1-5 units instant with Kraken & VP, so only 3-7 units with stupid AI
2th wave - reduced defence bonusses with 50% - 8 weak units with stupid AI

Two waves for defence would allow NB-attackers for grinding much more points than now. It also gives the PvP
a bit more ballance. Another sollution would be ussing the smart AI of the cmap and introducing defensive
Kraken&VP. Still the attacker has the advantage for beeing able to outsmart AI like on the cmap and ussing
pure skill to win.

 

[iPenguinPat]

At first, I was really opposed to giving TVP a defense buff too. It actually makes zero sense to add a defense buff, as it was never meant to be a defensive building, and it is a rocket. I'm coming around on the idea though. It's just one more thing for defensive preppers to waste their resources on

It's pretty clear at this point. The vast majority of attack focused players find TVP's charges too limited to be worth the resources to build. The vast majority of players with high city defense feel it's unfair and are looking for another tier of protection to their already nearly impassible defense.

As is, TVP is going to be rare and hardly used on live servers due to high cost/low reward benefit. Better second buff is needed or the offensive use needs to affect more fights per 24hr cycle. Obviously, the coin collection isn't a strong benefit that anyone would proactively seek out.

SG also seems to be getting the same feedback across the board: It's not bad per se, but the cost doesn't justify the reward. CF and HC are both superior.

Second buff suggestions which could apply to either GB:
FP - Will make it a go-to for nearly everyone because everyone wants more FP/day. In this case, def stacking players actually do have a pretty good reason to complain.
Coin or supply % bonus - It does help lower-mid level players to get the needed coins/supplies needed to progress. It will help advanced players with RQs (especially if coins). This likely won't change the acceptance rate.
Crowns/Guild power - This is actually a very interesting one. Especially for SG. It would kind of fit with the observatory theme. There's not currently a GB that affects guild power. This could have a wide range of appeal across all player types.
Population - This could have a very polarizing effect. There hasn't been a population GB for many ages. This would be appealing to players that are heavy goods producers or heavy fighters with many barracks. It would also help less developed players in higher ages to accommodate the high population requirements. As previously noted, it could also help to discourage very early age players from building either of these GBs due to the high happiness requirements due to high population.
Player defense bonus (2 wave) - This is just silly to expect or hope for imo. In most cases, those with super high defense are hard for everyone but the most advanced players to beat. Adding a second wave of even the same defense would make the defense unbreakable without diamonds. With unlimited uses, that would be far too powerful.
Player Defense bonus (infiltrate effect/extra armor) - This is a more balanced type effect. Than 2 wave, and it wouldn't require super high defense to still swing things. Not sure that it fits with the theme of either GB, but it's at least a bone to defense stacking players.

Alt suggestions
For TVP - The other idea put forward for TVP is to change from a charge based effect to an unlimited effect GB that works on both offense and defense like AO. The %'s would need to be much lower. It could also make sense to have the effect hit between 1-4 units sort of like the CE artillery. It could even be tiered like TOR such that 1 was more frequent than 4. This would make it appealing to GvGers and PvPers alike, and it would be an instant must-have for any fighter. It would also help to bring balance (and randomness) to pvp.

Another idea is for it to have an infiltrate effect instead of outright killing the units. This would skew the GB to benefit those with higher attack significantly more. Those with higher attack would be able to pass the defense faster, whereas those with lower attack really wouldn't get as much benefit. And again - it doesn't address the primary issue: too few uses for the resources invested.

For SG - Some have suggested making SG buff goods buildings. It's an interesting idea, but it would still have limited use because, in higher ages, most players produce a significant % (if not all) of their goods via GBs and/or special buildings like TF, sleigh builder, sunken treasure, etc. SG should also get a second buff or it will be rare and hardly used on live servers too.

I'm pretty sure inno "gets it" that defense stacking players don't love the idea of TVP. Let's come up with some alternatives that are actually balanced.

 

[DeletedUser10044]

Remove option for ussing the skill in PvP (this avoids the entire discussion about PvP balance)

It would also remove the last reason to build it

Are you so weak you can't win against the player defenses? do the forge of empire defenses make laugh and do you need Virgo's 4 battles for to win?
do you have kraken, orangery, 4 attack GB. against.VS stupid IM, hoods, and do you have difficulty winning again?

L O L






maybe you like to win easy, i like a challenge , but now even farmers will believe they are big warriors

( for 4 times a day ) hahahaa

 

[Miepie]

Are you so weak you can't win against the player defenses? do the forge of empire defenses make laugh and do you need Virgo's 4 battles for to win?
do you have kraken, orangery, 4 attack GB. against.VS stupid IM, hoods, and do you have difficulty winning again?

L O L



maybe you like to win easy, i like a challenge , but now even farmers will believe they are big warriors

( for 4 times a day ) hahahaa

Guess you should do your reading a bit more carefully. If you actually had bothered to read my previous posts, you'd know I won't build it because I don't need it. And any farmer trying to get through my defences, even if half my army dies, will not win unless they've actually have a decent attack bonus and a decent army with them, so no worries for me there.

But I'll repeat myself for you:
GvG - don't need Virgo there, my attack bonus is more than enough
GE - already no challenge, can do most encounters full-automatic, so no need for Virgo there
Map - never had any problem there, so I'm guessing it won't be a problem with the mars map

This goes for anybody with a decent attack. The only fights that might povide a little bit of a challenge are those few rare neighbors with their defences over 1200% That's 1 or 2 per neighborhood max. Those are the only fights were you might need a Virgo effect. So take that away and you might as well take the whole GB away.

But no, I won't build it and spend 1000s of fp for that. Especially because I can still break those defences if I have the right army and the patience to do them by hand. I've not encountered an unbreakable defence so far. And that's the way it should be (remember, as defender you've got 2 defences, first your defensive army, second your ability to collect on time). All those farmers looking for a fullproof defence against plunder, are fighting the wrong batlle and/or playing the wrong game. Although I do get why anybody would be upset after spending so much resources in those over the top defences. Because yes, you will be the primary target for those who actually build the thing. No need to use it on a 2 spear defence is there?

So dear Wind of Change, maybe you should get off your judgemental seat and look a bit further than what's right in front of you. Right now there is no good reason to build the thing and the only not so good reason is for attacking neighbors. If you are so weak you need it for other fights, you might want to consider upping some useful GB's like AO or Zeus, Aachen, CDM, terra, those are useful for ALL attacks and not just a random few

 

[DeletedUser7703]

My suggestion for Virgo would be to make it Kraken 2, gives FPs instead of coins (64 at level 80), "For the first X battles, there is an X% chance of killing one enemy from the 2nd wave of a battle." This would appease the people who are worried about city defences.

It maybe boring as some people have suggested but as a F2P game, I don't think it makes good business sense to make 2 niche GBs. I believe the above would be popular and a nice little earner for Inno, which presumably has to be a factor?