Feedback Guild Expedition Update

[esoterism]

Here is what we received on French Servers :
Chers joueurs
Nous vous informons que nous allons boycotter l'expédition de la guilde Step5 la semaine prochaine.
Les raisons sont le coût absurde des marchandises niveau 5, manque de diamants dans les niveaux de profit inférieurs et de profits ridicules. Les nouveaux joueurs n'ont aucune chance. Ne débloquez pas l'expédition de la guilde au prochain tour. Plus les guildes participent, plus vite nous attirons l'attention.
Rejoignez-nous ! Si vous êtes intéressé, veuillez faire suivre ce courrier aux guildes amicales.

A solutiton would be to provide a free level 5 if a guild open level 4, or you do not care

 

[Pericles the Lion]

But how long can you do that for? Are you making 10k goods + previous era goods per week? I amassed a good amount of goods over a long time, this isn't a feasible method for most people to keep up over long term. A lot of people are just sitting in certain eras like FE/VR/SAJM, so those previous era goods are going to be depleted over time as well since repeats don't give previous era and only one gb gives previous era (and nobody builds it).

In my main city, 41 of 63 of my guild mates have attempted L5. 21 have completed it. I negotiated all 16 encounters, others fought some. It's only the first season which means the number of L5 participants could change. Long term campers have an advantage in that they will have accumulated a large inventory of current age goods. When they age up they will then have lots of prior age goods while collecting current age ones. Meanwhile, lots of SBCs are being built as players start to increase their defending army stats. L5 is going to be difficult to solve but that's where the fun is.

 

[TARS]

I think, the sleigh builders used to be good, and he is plunderable. If you keep the buildings up to date and then trade these goods down you are far more efficient in the quantity you get. Sure you have to adjust the friend list so that they accept the goods trade. But that is done quickly.

So, I therefore need the current goods for trading down for the guild treasury and not for burning them in the GE5

I'm surprised how many players forget about negotiating. I haven't focused on goods at all, just placing down event buildings (including 16 sleigh builders though, but they're easy to get), and I'm basically already at the point where I can negotiate all of GE 5 comfortably in VF. Sure, it's costly, but I wouldn't be using those goods otherwise. The hardest part is previous era goods, but just don't reno kit your event buildings and voila.

If I went full in on attack at the expense of everything else in the game, then yeah, it might be difficult. But unless you've sold all the non-hardline attack event buildings, you should be halfway to being able to negotiate anyways. You don't have to convert your city to defense. You can add a little defense if you want with the GE buildings, but by no means do you have to.

 

[Emberguard]

I'm surprised how many players forget about negotiating. I haven't focused on goods at all, just placing down event buildings (including 16 sleigh builders though, but they're easy to get), and I'm basically already at the point where I can negotiate all of GE 5 comfortably in VF. Sure, it's costly, but I wouldn't be using those goods otherwise. The hardest part is previous era goods, but just don't reno kit your event buildings and voila.

I haven't forgotten about negotiating, I'm just aware my entire stock would most likely be depleted in 2.5 weeks if I exclusively negotiate. Events are monthly.

That means I would have to drastically increase my activity in anything that provides goods to sustain Level 5 until the city is sufficiently built up to fight.

If the Forgotten Temple was a permanent structure then I would be excited for that challenge and find it worthwhile to do that increase in activity with the goal of acquiring the Forgotten Temple. But it's not permanent, it's a +/- 72k monthly maintenance fee (864,000 yearly). It's a fantastic little building, just not 72k-monthly-goods type fantastic.

That's assuming we're diamond'ing extra turns. Otherwise it'll be more from re-doing negotiations.

 

[Proven Legend]

I have spent real money trying to improve my game and position and enjoyed doing it, now after a couple of weeks I have really enjoyed being laid back and deciding to stay where I am in SAAB. The big change now is that INNO will not get any more money from me and I will continue to do my own thing in the game and enjoy it.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I haven't forgotten about negotiating, I'm just aware my entire stock would most likely be depleted in 2.5 weeks if I exclusively negotiate. Events are monthly.

That means I would have to drastically increase my activity in anything that provides goods to sustain Level 5 until the city is sufficiently built up to fight.

If the Forgotten Temple was a permanent structure then I would be excited for that challenge and find it worthwhile to do that increase in activity with the goal of acquiring the Forgotten Temple. But it's not permanent, it's a +/- 72k monthly maintenance fee (864,000 yearly). It's a fantastic little building, just not 72k-monthly-goods type fantastic.

That's assuming we're diamond'ing extra turns. Otherwise it'll be more from re-doing negotiations.

I don't think that it will turn out to be 72K/month. More like 50K but that's still a stretch for most players, especially those not in the Space Ages.

 

[SnowyNinja]

I don't if you noticed but it's not just us players who are;t paying that are complaining they are losing a lot of paying players or at least they are no longer paying, and yes I don't see how you can get 10-15K goods a week including previous ages without a lot of expansions and you need diamonds for those expansions especially if you are in earlier ages like PE

 

[drakenridder]

But it's not permanent, it's a +/- 72k monthly maintenance fee (864,000 yearly). It's a fantastic little building, just not 72k-monthly-goods type fantastic.

If neg. GE5 completely costs app. 10k goods in total, how can the monthly costs for up keeping be 72k+ monthly? The math doesn't adds up. Assuming GE is funded by GB's like Arc and AI core...

52w/year = 52x GE5/year
10k goods/GE5 * 52 GE5/year = 520k/year
520k goods/year / 12 months (per year) = 43,3k+ goods monthly.

Hmmm, unsure where the other 29k-ish goods are disappearing each month.

That been said, GE5 is a good goods sink. Something to turn goods into somewhat useful buildings and maintaining 1 awesome building. Still though it's possible to cut down on the goods costs over time. With investments in blue buffs. Although I wouldn't recommend to let the red buffs dipping below 1k. As to not compromise capabilities to remove obstacles encountered in GE4. Personally I've cut down on my GE5 neg. costs with fighting. Planning to cutting down further down the road. Although it likely hits a practical sealing around the 8th encounter, a big maybe for the 12th encounter over a year or so. I'm sure I'm not alone in this. The GE5 neg. costs will go down eventually for fighters who are into it.
At live I've also noticed something interesting. Virgo shows all the sudden up in booster programs. Even fairly frequently. Among with Kraken, bas., AO and TA. It's too early to conclude anything but it seems some are taking this challenge. Developing strong offensive GB's for GE5. Particularly super weapons like Kraken and Virgo. Particularly the letter didn't get much love or intention. Now it has gotten some strong potential and there are player groups seeing the potential and jumping into it. Curious how this will develop further. As more strategies and adjustments will be developed by those who are willing to adapt.

 

[Emberguard]

If neg. GE5 completely costs app. 10k goods in total, how can the monthly costs for up keeping be 72k+ monthly? The math doesn't adds up. Assuming GE is funded by GB's like Arc and AI core...

The 18k per week is if you exclusively negotiate, and don't have to re-do any of the negotiations. 10k is if you fight half of it

 

[drakenridder]

The 18k per week is if you exclusively negotiate, and don't have to re-do any of the negotiations. 10k is if you fight half of it

Thanks for clearing that up. It was often said it costs around 10k to complete GE5. Didn't count my costs this week. So, assumed it was 10k.
Still though for fighters the costs might go down noticeably over time. As some are preparing to pushing deeper into GE5 with their armies. Pretty sure that with that the upkeep costs for the temple will drop over time. Although it takes time, planning and effort to do so. It remains a personal choice if it's worth it or not.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I don't if you noticed but it's not just us players who are;t paying that are complaining they are losing a lot of paying players or at least they are no longer paying, and yes I don't see how you can get 10-15K goods a week including previous ages without a lot of expansions and you need diamonds for those expansions especially if you are in earlier ages like PE

That's why I said it would be a stretch for players not in the Space Ages where the Colony, by itself, can produce over 1000 current age goods per day, without taking up space in the main city.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

The 18k per week is if you exclusively negotiate, and don't have to re-do any of the negotiations. 10k is if you fight half of it

I negotiated all 16 encounters this week using 12,056 goods. I used the tavern "extra turn" but took no extra turns needing diamonds. I got stymied 3 times and started over instead of spending diamonds. Had I spent 10 diamonds each time I would have saved about 2K goods. It's only one time so I don't know if my experience will turn out to be average, or not. Time will tell.

 

[thelegend88]

I absolutely lost understanding to what is the purpose of this thread. Since it has an overwhelming negative opinions about the change, perhaps the most negative yet and still they were not taken into account. If game devs decided this must go on regardless of the feedback then feedback thread is redundant and should not have been created in the first place rather than having all this people belive their opinion matter in any way.

 

[CrashBoom]

feedback thread is redundant and should not have been created in the first place

then Inno wouldn't have changed the amount of fragments for the level 1-4 kits
and haven't reduced the enemy boost (yes they did: still unbeatable but not so high anymore)

 

[Emberguard]

Thanks for clearing that up. It was often said it costs around 10k to complete GE5. Didn't count my costs this week. So, assumed it was 10k.
Still though for fighters the costs might go down noticeably over time. As some are preparing to pushing deeper into GE5 with their armies. Pretty sure that with that the upkeep costs for the temple will drop over time. Although it takes time, planning and effort to do so. It remains a personal choice if it's worth it or not.

I negotiated all 16 encounters this week using 12,056 goods. I used the tavern "extra turn" but took no extra turns needing diamonds. I got stymied 3 times and started over instead of spending diamonds. Had I spent 10 diamonds each time I would have saved about 2K goods. It's only one time so I don't know if my experience will turn out to be average, or not. Time will tell.

My apologies, I went back to the discord post I was basing my post off to see if I could find the formula again. I found it and there was one detail I was misremembering.

Here's the info copy-pasted:

38.25 (average amount of goods) * 5 (slots) * 4 (guesses) * 16 (encounters) / 0.68 (success rate) = flat 18k

dividing by 0.68 already account for failures

If I were to redo the math to account for 100% success rate then 38.25 x 5 x 4 x 16 x 1 = 12,240 goods estimated

So the 18k is if you fail 32% of the time.

Making it 48,960 estimated monthly if you succeed each time, and 72k estimated if you're re-doing 32% of them

 

[drakenridder]

I absolutely lost understanding to what is the purpose of this thread. Since it has an overwhelming negative opinions about the change, perhaps the most negative yet and still they were not taken into account. If game devs decided this must go on regardless of the feedback then feedback thread is redundant and should not have been created in the first place rather than having all this people belive their opinion matter in any way.

I suspect the devs to have envisioned GE5 like it is: fortifications to make fighting easier and giving city defence a useful/meaningful purpose. From what I’ve observed some are acting on it positively and adjusting to the changes. Looking into recent event buildings, both red and blue buffs are provided. I suspect the devs to have planned out for GE5 to facilitate a place where blue buffs are useful to cut down on neg. costs for keeping up the forgotten temple. Seeing with their vision through the initial negative feedback.
This is just speculation but to me it would make the most sense, from a dev’s perspective. In my experience since the dawn of Forge we as a community learn to understand changes with a delay. GE5 ain’t an exception.

My apologies, I went back to the discord post I was basing my post off to see if I could find the formula again. I found it and there was one detail I was misremembering.

Here's the info copy-pasted:



If I were to redo the math to account for 100% success rate then 38.25 x 5 x 4 x 16 x 1 = 12,240 goods estimated

So the 18k is if you fail 32% of the time.

Making it 48,960 estimated monthly if you succeed each time, and 72k estimated if you're re-doing 32% of them

Thanks for the update and digging in the numbers. Around 12-13k estimated goods costs for GE5 appear to be more in line. Still costly but not unmanageable over time. Particularly after a quarter of gathering GE buildings with city defence and couple of useful new event buildings for it. Especially looking to the bear mountain during wild life event.

 

[angelgail]

played it on my live world. not worth it, even with 3 boost going an a building i was not able to fight it.some in my guild did, for a few levels .
may try again in a few weeks .

 

[UBERhelp1]

But how long can you do that for? Are you making 10k goods + previous era goods per week? I amassed a good amount of goods over a long time, this isn't a feasible method for most people to keep up over long term. A lot of people are just sitting in certain eras like FE/VR/SAJM, so those previous era goods are going to be depleted over time as well since repeats don't give previous era and only one gb gives previous era (and nobody builds it).

Yes. I do produce enough goods. Way too many current-age goods, from quests, GBG, etc. and previous age goods aren't a problem with sleigh builders and a few Stages of Ages. It isn't that big of an investment. I'm giving up maybe 1-200% attack, but that's not that big of a deal, as that'll help you maybe only do one more fight in GBG at high attrition. To me that's a worthwhile tradeoff.

 

[hades8840]

Did lvl 5 on nine worlds only had to neg a couple camps on two worlds rest I fought my way through so all good here

 

[stay rita]

played it it seems so disconnected from GE 1-4 thats my main issue and also no diamonds like OK INNO im going to level my TOR now see you 30 foy later