Feedback Guild Expedition Update

[softly explorer]

Well, currently I'm building up boost for my defending army with St Basil and maybe also going to build Deal Castle too ... these both GB's also helps by playing GvG (and I've a L87 Observatory too!) ....
Maybe, after all, I going to back start playing GvG and forget for the upcoming 3 a 4 years about GE 5 (that I probably need to build up a nice boost for def army) LOL
Just a "thought" ...
Exception I will make : IF they bring my idea to life that I can always get my hands on all the Relics my ToR give (access to them, even if they're in the fog), then I like to play GE 5 via fighting only and see how far I can get each time my boost going up a bit more. That wold be cool, because one of my biggest frustrrations are that I get rewards from a GB I can not reach just because the difficulty of a GE level goes up like a mount Everest !
Then again : the current boosts of GE 5 are still way too high ! I probably need to bring my St Basil up to level 5000(?) or somthing to be aible to beat whole GE 5 ? (please correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[Pericles the Lion]

solution for them:
get Arc to 80. Chateau very high

then they can make enough goods
doing "spend FP"-recurring quests while spending FP in the guilds 1,9

we can call that the challenge to beat level 5

and from game perspective those GB are a must have: so basically no extra city space needed for GEx5



actually my playing style: heavy quester

I did already many quests in colonial age before the Chateau even existed
a city full of clockmaker at 24h productions

Using the ARC/CF for heavy questing can take care of the +/- 6K current era goods needed for L5 but not the +/- 6K previous era goods. Getting previous era goods requires trading (but the market will probably dry up), lots of space for goods/event buildings, or a Colony (space ages only).

 

[Hiep Lin]

Well, currently I'm building up boost for my defending army with St Basil and maybe also going to build Deal Castle too ... these both GB's also helps by playing GvG

No, these 2 GB are no longer useful in GvG.
In GvG the defensive bonus is limited, with these 2 GB you will have more sectors with 50% defensive bonus but 50% bonus is cat pee.
This is not what changes the outcome of a fight, this bonus level has remained since the beginning of the game when our offensive bonuses were lousy.

 

[Sl8yer]

Well, currently I'm building up boost for my defending army with St Basil and maybe also going to build Deal Castle too ... these both GB's also helps by playing GvG (and I've a L87 Observatory too!) ....

They help your guild, not you and they help your guild in a way that it hardly profits from it.

 

[drakenridder]

Greater ritual flames are actually pretty decent options compared to the defence GB's:

Efficiency:	Building:	lvl
3,5%/square	Greater flame	1
3,5%/square	TA	138
3,48%/square	St. bas.	124
3,49%/square	Deal castle	292

So, even though it would take tons of great rituals flames to get to this point, my point is, it'll take a lot of fps, time and effort to getting the GB's to their efficiency. Besides that they don't require a road. So, the actual required GB levels might be even higher. If you taking roads into consideration.
Another new GE building that yields a lot of potential are serpent spikes. However their main drawback is being part of a chain building. Which constraining their potential. Case in point is that the new defence buildings are kinda decent options. If you would want to getting you're defence % up.

To paint a more clear picture. Let's say you would have 5*5 square and no St. Bas. You could place alternatively greater flames:
25 square / 2 = 12,5 or 12 flames. If you would eventually getting those 12 flames they'll give you: 12 flames * 7% att/def = 84% att/def for defending armies.
Alternatively you could power build your st. Bas. To lvl 100. Which would give you: 75% att/def. for defending armies. Thus ending up with 8% of each less buffs for your defending army. That been said, St. Bas. Could be expended upon further. Improving its efficiency and eventually surpassing greater flames.

Spoiler: Calculations

TA
4*6 = 24 squares * 3,5%/square = 84%
84% - 20% = 64 * 2 (each 2nd lvl past 10 gives 1% increase) = 128 levels + 10 = lvl 138 needed
St. Bas.
5*5 = 25 square * 3,5% = 87,5% required, 87% - 30% (from lvl10) = 57% * 2 (each 2nd lvl past lvl 10 increases 1%) = lvl 114 + lvl 10 = 124
114 levels / 2 = 57% + 30% (lvl10) = 87% / 25 squares = 3,48%/square
Deal castle
7*7 = 49 squares * 3,5% = 171,5%
171% - 30% (lvl10) = 141% * 2 (cause every 2nd lvl past 10 increases by 1%) = lvl 282 + lvl10 = lvl 292
Lvl 292 - 10 = lvl 282 / 2 = 141% + 30% (lvl10) = 171% / 49 square = 3,49%/square

 

[Tempestas]

While the goods may not be scaled, it is easier to fight most of the encounters in Iron Age. I don't plan on wasting my goods on negotiating any encounters I can fight. I don't think negotiating is the obvious way for everyone to deal with this.

 

[shad2389]

Using the ARC/CF for heavy questing

eaven though my main world CF is now lvl 41 i don't intend on heavy questing to much clics not good for my wrists

 

[DEADP00L]

It's crazy how do rumors start?
You just have to want/be able to help your guild friends by betting on their GB to run the recurring quests. With this method, I validate about fifty quests per day, without hurting my handle and clicking less than the hundreds/thousands of automatic fights that don't seem to bother you.

 

[shad2389]

It's crazy how do rumors start?
You just have to want/be able to help your guild friends by betting on their GB to run the recurring quests. With this method, I validate about fifty quests per day, without hurting my handle and clicking less than the hundreds/thousands of automatic fights that don't seem to bother you.

fights have been part of the game since ever and it's part of the game that atracted me to the game doing quests never atracted me + to get to quest about spending FP's now that am in VF on Langandorn there is 10 clics between each spend 200 FP quests clic fest lol 10 useless clics every time i want to spend 200 FP's no thx i also don't go out of my way to do the 10 clics for getting to win 20 fights every time i want to do 20 fights

 

[DEADP00L]

For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who do not believe, no proof is possible.
The world combat in GbG is not done in 1 click, but minimum 3 if you get no reward and if you don't have to change troops.
In short, don't say that the recurring ones hurt your handle, just say that you don't like this feature, it will at least be more sincere.

 

[CDmark]

In ME, I get around 2K goods per day using L100 CF just collecting, doing coin, supplies and FP with the dual quests. So, 12k per week ME goods (toss in a RL delay so 6 collections per week), no HC, no 50 hits from GBG, just collecting, the other is extra. Also, I have a L68 BG. Spend 6K max ME on GE5 (can fight to at least L6, few adjustments, L8). Do this until PE dries up, got 200K there. That is about 30 weeks of GE. 30 weeks having 6K extra ME (12K earned collecting - 6K spent on GE5), have at least 180K ME goods and can advance to PE for 30 more weeks. If I want more goods, do FP quests as mentioned above. The quests for 2K during collection take me about 15-20 more minutes.

If you currently have low previous era goods in PE, do more quests, make more ME and age up sooner with ME being previous era but now you have 200K+.

In both scenarios, no trading at all. I think this works at least to FE, looking at the RQs in wikia. FE players will need TE goods so maybe some will stay there a bit longer to build inventory.

Now, find a PE player with CF, trades. Find some CE players who have GBs (loa, galata, SMB etc) that make PE goods, can be close to 500 goods each player, easy trades. All the above based on ME player so other ages adjust accordingly.

The only age that gets screwed, Iron age. Look all you want, BA goods hard to find and can not maintain the 5K per week consumption and no CFs there.

 

[PK23]

this is rediculous

For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who do not believe, no proof is possible.
The world combat in GbG is not done in 1 click, but minimum 3 if you get no reward and if you don't have to change troops.
In short, don't say that the recurring ones hurt your handle, just say that you don't like this feature, it will at least be more since

started playing for the fights but i do agree with shad eaven the fights hurt my wrists , he never said fights did not hurt his wrists just that it was that part of game who attracted him to game , FoE is a clic fest and some of us won't start adding thousands of clics especialy in parts of game we don't particularly apreciate just to be able to do the lvl 5 , i also don't particularly like market wich is why i try to build my city in a way my city provides me with enough goods for my needs and i won'tgo adding more goods buildings especialy buildings from build menu eather just to satisfy my need of doing lvl 5 of GE or change my playing style eather just for 1 GE lvl and i think me and shad are far from being alone like this

 

[xivarmy]

Greater ritual flames are actually pretty decent options compared to the defence GB's:

Efficiency:	Building:	lvl
3,5%/square	Greater flame	1
3,5%/square	TA	138
3,48%/square	St. bas.	124
3,49%/square	Deal castle	292

So, even though it would take tons of great rituals flames to get to this point, my point is, it'll take a lot of fps, time and effort to getting the GB's to their efficiency. Besides that they don't require a road. So, the actual required GB levels might be even higher. If you taking roads into consideration.
Another new GE building that yields a lot of potential are serpent spikes. However their main drawback is being part of a chain building. Which constraining their potential. Case in point is that the new defence buildings are kinda decent options. If you would want to getting you're defence % up.

To paint a more clear picture. Let's say you would have 5*5 square and no St. Bas. You could place alternatively greater flames:
25 square / 2 = 12,5 or 12 flames. If you would eventually getting those 12 flames they'll give you: 12 flames * 7% att/def = 84% att/def for defending armies.
Alternatively you could power build your st. Bas. To lvl 100. Which would give you: 75% att/def. for defending armies. Thus ending up with 8% of each less buffs for your defending army. That been said, St. Bas. Could be expended upon further. Improving its efficiency and eventually surpassing greater flames.

Spoiler: Calculations

TA
4*6 = 24 squares * 3,5%/square = 84%
84% - 20% = 64 * 2 (each 2nd lvl past 10 gives 1% increase) = 128 levels + 10 = lvl 138 needed
St. Bas.
5*5 = 25 square * 3,5% = 87,5% required, 87% - 30% (from lvl10) = 57% * 2 (each 2nd lvl past lvl 10 increases 1%) = lvl 114 + lvl 10 = 124
114 levels / 2 = 57% + 30% (lvl10) = 87% / 25 squares = 3,48%/square
Deal castle
7*7 = 49 squares * 3,5% = 171,5%
171% - 30% (lvl10) = 141% * 2 (cause every 2nd lvl past 10 increases by 1%) = lvl 282 + lvl10 = lvl 292
Lvl 292 - 10 = lvl 282 / 2 = 141% + 30% (lvl10) = 171% / 49 square = 3,49%/square

While greater ritual flames are indeed great "filler" for building defense, you get them at a rate of 1 per month *if* you're already completing GE5... Like everything else in GE5. So I don't think they're really an option. It'd take over a year to just fill the space that the st basil takes - which FP to 125 is light in comparison by today's standards.

And TA you probably have one anyways because it also affects your attacking army.

Deal Castle *is* just too big though - even for regular ritual flames and tactician towers to replace.

 

[shad2389]

While greater ritual flames are indeed great "filler" for building defense, you get them at a rate of 1 per month *if* you're already completing GE5... Like everything else in GE5. So I don't think they're really an option. It'd take over a year to just fill the space that the st basil takes - which FP to 125 is light in comparison by today's standards.

And TA you probably have one anyways because it also affects your attacking army.

Deal Castle *is* just too big though - even for regular ritual flames and tactician towers to replace.

my TA is only lvl 26 and am not planing on working on it any time soon to get it to lvl 80 would take me around 6 months to find BP's for it and probobly an other 6 to lvl it so it could be high enough to scratch start of lvl 5 of GE at moment am working on my goods GB's anyways this is realy to rediculous pls rethink your numbers INNO

 

[drakenridder]

@xivarmy its rather theoretically comparing the options. Sacrificing time and effort for St. bas. is rather questionable. It's much easier to squishing in a 2x1 building with a fairly high efficiency, compared to levelling a 2nd GB to the required level to reaching the same efficiency or exceeding it. In that regards, imho the flames ain't that bad of a building. In the time levelling TA it might be better to placing flames than having a St. Bas. to level simultaneously.
Also like @shad2389 mentioned, it's tricky to find BD's of TA. St. Bas. is also decently uncommon but might become more common with GE5. Still the hassle to pushing those GB's to the levels to surpass flames and pushing through their efficiency losses from needing roads compared to the flames... yeah I'll happily take the flames over that. While collecting left and right bd's whenever I feel like it.

 

[xivarmy]

@xivarmy its rather theoretically comparing the options. Sacrificing time and effort for St. bas. is rather questionable. It's much easier to squishing in a 2x1 building with a fairly high efficiency, compared to levelling a 2nd GB to the required level to reaching the same efficiency or exceeding it. In that regards, imho the flames ain't that bad of a building. In the time levelling TA it might be better to placing flames than having a St. Bas. to level simultaneously.
Also like @shad2389 mentioned, it's tricky to find BD's of TA. St. Bas. is also decently uncommon but might become more common with GE5. Still the hassle to pushing those GB's to the levels to surpass flames and pushing through their efficiency losses from needing roads compared to the flames... yeah I'll happily take the flames over that. While collecting left and right bd's whenever I feel like it.

It still neglects that you just won't *have* the flames to replace them. Not that I plan to build a Basil on live at current balancing.

I did build one on beta among many other inefficient options to get up and running (such as build an extra 4 standing stones next to my celtic set, and buying a globe fountain off the antique dealer) Would I have built greater ritual flames instead if I had em? Yes (actually probably "as well", not instead). I don't really build high level GBs on beta - I don't even have an Arc on beta! I just self-level whatever I have prints for to get the FP out of my bar So adding a St Basil as a sink for a new sink for those FP wasn't a big deal.

But *if* I were planning to fight GE5 on live (i'm not - I'll negotiate at current balancing). And *if* st basil was enough to make a difference (it's not by itself). Then I might build one on live because it's even more impractical to wait for buildings to replace it.

It'll be waiting for enough phantom towers and panda shrines and whatever else they have upcoming that might one day years down the road make some of GE5 accidentally fightable for my live cities in higher eras (if current balance remains the same). And I'll evaluate then whether it's worth space for greater ritual flames and St Basil.

It's plausible low-era cities may do well with St Basil as part of a start though (their first fights are much lower in boost required).

 

[MoridSecler]

I expected GE5 to be an order of magnitude harder than GE4, but that it would be progressive Just as it took time to be able to complete GE4 each week but could make a little more progress through GE1-3, most shouldn't be able to fight through GE5 immediately but at least should be able to make some progress.

• If Inno really want to make def bonuses relevant then they just need to design a new feature that requires it that we can progress through whilst building them up. Switching from att bonus in GE1-4 to def in GE5 has no logic and puts a massive barrier to entrance (leaving aside the possibility of generating 10k goods/week to negotiate).
• Building att bonus to fight through GE4 and updating it as you age up takes time and needs sufficient city space - the same investment is required again for def bonus before you can even being to fight GE5. And as there are far fewer options for adding def bonuses, especially def army attack, it will take longer.
• Nerfing GE1-4 rewards (it is not rebalancing, do INNO take us all for fools?) will hurt beginning players most and make it much harder for them to build the capability to work through it.
• The new platform buildings is an interesting idea but as implemented they too costly to build for just for one encounter to be of much use. Could improve them by allowing multiple slots, let them persist over multiple platforms with a %age chance of being destroyed after use. And rather than costing more goods than they can possibily save points could be earned over GE1-4 which could then be spent on platform building in GE5.

 

[Una Queen]

It'll be waiting for enough phantom towers and panda shrines and whatever else they have upcoming that might one day years down the road make some of GE5 accidentally fightable for my live cities in higher eras (if current balance remains the same). And I'll evaluate then whether it's worth space for greater ritual flames and St Basil.

I plan to place down a few phantoms this year then next year, when its a daily special, Ill probably end up getting more. but in the mean time, if a building has attack boost and city def boosts in 1 building, Ill probably place them down. this is only if they continue placing both boosts in 1 building but I have a feeling itll only be a couple events then theyll stop. which is why Im saying, Ill go for more phantoms next year along with my key masters producing extra kits over the year too. so having high attack boosts and city def boosts is quite possible but will take a while to do. so what Im saying is that I do agree with those that say ge5 is a doable challenge, like you said a while back (I think it was you, cant remember) that said itll take about a year or so to be able to complete ge5 with only fighting.

 

[CDmark]

serpent spikes (2X2, 15% A.D defending) pack a punch esp lower ages

 

[drakenridder]

It still neglects that you just won't *have* the flames to replace them. Not that I plan to build a Basil on live at current balancing.

I did build one on beta among many other inefficient options to get up and running (such as build an extra 4 standing stones next to my celtic set, and buying a globe fountain off the antique dealer) Would I have built greater ritual flames instead if I had em? Yes (actually probably "as well", not instead). I don't really build high level GBs on beta - I don't even have an Arc on beta! I just self-level whatever I have prints for to get the FP out of my bar So adding a St Basil as a sink for a new sink for those FP wasn't a big deal.

But *if* I were planning to fight GE5 on live (i'm not - I'll negotiate at current balancing). And *if* st basil was enough to make a difference (it's not by itself). Then I might build one on live because it's even more impractical to wait for buildings to replace it.

It'll be waiting for enough phantom towers and panda shrines and whatever else they have upcoming that might one day years down the road make some of GE5 accidentally fightable for my live cities in higher eras (if current balance remains the same). And I'll evaluate then whether it's worth space for greater ritual flames and St Basil.

It's plausible low-era cities may do well with St Basil as part of a start though (their first fights are much lower in boost required).

You’re missing my point. My point is, the greater flames are better than they first seemed to be. Due to their efficiency. Comparing them to comparable GB’s. Which are the best to compare to. On the long term eventually greater flames will stack. For those reasons imo their pretty good. Offering a greater flexibility with their 2x1 size and no roads requirement and high efficiency. Only surpassed by very high levels of specifically defence GB’s. Further reinforcing my view on them.
My point wasn’t that the GB’s and greater ritual flames are mutually exclusive. In other words not being able to have both. Choosing the one over the other. To me the appeal of them is greater than the GB’s.