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Feedback [Feedback] - Oceanic Future Part 6

  • Thread starter Retired Community Manager
  • Start date

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
Seems a bit of a miss then for FP :

Level 1 : 3.4 FP (High for the level)
Level 10 : 9.8 FP (Ok for the level)
Level 24 : 16.8 FP (Falling behind pretty fast)

I guess it'd be a bit better used for goods buildings if you use the 24 hr cycle anyways - 8 hr cycle would still beat 24 hr with the GB though, and the GB doesn't seem worthwhile for 8 hr collections of them. Seems like at current balancing it's pretty niche-use.
 

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
their portuguese wiki appears to have the new units already(until someone links more convenient pics here) :

https://pt.wiki.forgeofempires.com/index.php?title=Unidades

Edit : Now they've been removed from that page :/ Why do you like to hide stats on the units when many OF on live players aren't OF here to test them anyways and all we can do is look at the stats and speculate how we'd be able to use them.
 
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DeletedUser5097

Guest
Agree, if you are sticking with a nautical theme, rename the Medusa.

+1 for the Hydra
Thanks,
for how don't know what the Hydra is. The hydra is a seamonster of a old Greek myth. Its a large 9 headed
beast that could only been defeated by cutting off all 9 heads at one shot. Every time some one attemps to
cut off one head of the Hydra, would the Hydra grow two new heads back. Ackording to Grepolis explenation
was it the most feared danger lurking in the deep. An ancient type of Kraken of the warm waters.

Since the first tech for quite some eras has been an expansion, I´m more like to see a man walking towards his spaceship, which has its engines warming up ready to launch :D
Intressting, maybe his space ships engines are warming him up for the long voyage and advanture
that's waiting. Let's built the Seadragon now we know everything of the oceans and dealed with the
dangers in the deep.
Yeah it's a real rocket, not something that I made up because I like dragons.xd I guess I'm not the only
one how liked dragons.:p This is a video of the rocket. It's a very large rocket, but never been built so
far since we did not need it. Since there was no reason to send out so much stuff in space before. Yet
the designe is very simply and allows an easy start for the upcoming space race. I'll explain later in
an theme future suggestion package about the upcoming space race and the parties working on it as we
speak...
maxresdefault.jpg

 

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
Thoughts on the new units :

Medusa
Advantages over Turturret : moves first, and can hit stealth
Disadvantages : It deploys itself in the middle of the battlefield, can't move, and has no AoE
Verdict : Could make some of the last few encounters of diff 4 a bit more interesting as 8 turturrets will get fired on by any medusas present. Might just lead to needing to bring in the 'right amount' of rogues (i.e. = # of medusas) in certain attack setups. Not sure though without playing it. Finally something that can own a hover tank potentially in OF as well. Could make for some interesting defensive options in AA. Might be a splash option in Turturret centered armies to take out an eel or two or something - I've used plasma cannons for this before.

Gliders
Advantages over Eels : I can flyyyyy - while eels can't avoid the medusa entirely (though might not need to unless there's a ton of em), gliders do. How much defense do they get from swarm?
Disadvantages : Stealth works on a lot more than flying
Verdict : Probably situationally useful if for no other reason than the existence of the medusa.

Scimitar
Advantages over Manta : Very fast, Area damage, No Retaliation - kinda like prenerf dragon drones maybe
Disadvantages : Slightly lower stats, No contact, Could wind up neutered by turn ordering
Verdict : Potentially decent - different usage than manta (which i honestly barely if ever use at all) - could see it taking over where my dragon drones started failing to work because of their low stats against the beefy octopods and nautilus.
 

knycknac

Farmer
Re new GBS
as mentioned by many end players are not looking for medals as they can collect vast amounts from other players GBs with near double amounts from the Arc bonus
FP s are something that we always want but in one world i can collect over 400 every 24 hours and i know of many others that collect more
so how about a GB that offers 1 small square (1x1) per level every player would be happy with that -- another idea would be a reduction of say 5% of current cost of coins to buy fps -- another idea would be a new level in GE which you can only get to by having a GB that opens up level 5 and then a sector every level, this will mean guild help in leveling this GB so the guild can increase its weekly % in GE --- another idea is to have a Gb that offers you the option to increase tavern options seats tiles etc.
 

DeletedUser8277

Guest
I like the idea of this new GB that I keep wanting to call 'The Wave'. Double collection is an interesting concept and valuable if you have Palace Sets or Terrace Farms. What I don't like is that a rework of your city could render this GB worthless. The size is quite large for a building with such a lack luster second boost it may as well have no second at all.

Medals are the most useless thing in game for anyone who has an arc or has been playing for a year +. Even coins when collected could count towards an RQ (Or DC if that's one of your tasks) and turned into FP later. I had been hoping for a coin boost myself ala SMB.

It also seems the chance is too low and the encounters too few. 17% for 4 times? I see that as a building that takes up 7x5 and gives an 83% chance of nothing 4 times in a row. I agree it should be small amount of limited times but the percentage should be way higher than that.
 
Summary of new content states:
  • 4 expansions (victory and Diamond expansion have been already available
Only 1 expansion shows on the tech tree - should there be 2?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Summary of new content states:
  • 4 expansions (victory and Diamond expansion have been already available
Only 1 expansion shows on the tech tree - should there be 2?

Most likely one on the province map too.
 

DeletedUser7959

Guest
How does it work with fountains (random prizes)?
50x2 diamonds? :confused:
 

DeletedUser7059

Guest
How does it work with fountains (random prizes)?
50x2 diamonds? :confused:
I ask about same thing before, but obwiously it should work exactly that. ;)
BTW: Get 1 of 3 diamonds (per yer) from specific WW with 6 tries on BG lvl10 is extremly hard, so it actualy is not so powerfull. ;)
 

qaccy

Emperor
Kinda interesting that the name of the building doesn't match the name that's drawn on the building art. Why is this?

Anyway, glad to see the trend continue with a unique effect on the new GB. Much like the Kraken before it, looks like one that's designed with high levels in mind rather than just the 1-10 experience. I like that GBs are now starting to be designed around the expectation that levels higher than 10 will be attained, because the fact is that it's definitely very commonplace today for GBs to be levelled beyond what the initial set of BPs gives you. If this GB reaches a 90%+ activation chance at high levels like the Kraken does, as well as continuing to increase the number of activations, it's going to be reliably capable of producing dozens of not only FP, but also all other resources simultaneously.

As for the units...I'm really interested in seeing the stats, if possible!
 

Sinitar

Regent
prntscr.com/i99g5p
prntscr.com/i99ghz

EDIT - NormaJeane 2018-02-04 - Pls provide an English translation next time;)
I'm sorry What happened...The google translate has translate the comment too :D
 
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DeletedUser8150

Guest
Thoughts on the new units :

Medusa
Advantages over Turturret : moves first, and can hit stealth
Disadvantages : It deploys itself in the middle of the battlefield, can't move, and has no AoE
Verdict : Could make some of the last few encounters of diff 4 a bit more interesting as 8 turturrets will get fired on by any medusas present. Might just lead to needing to bring in the 'right amount' of rogues (i.e. = # of medusas) in certain attack setups. Not sure though without playing it. Finally something that can own a hover tank potentially in OF as well. Could make for some interesting defensive options in AA. Might be a splash option in Turturret centered armies to take out an eel or two or something - I've used plasma cannons for this before.

Gliders
Advantages over Eels : I can flyyyyy - while eels can't avoid the medusa entirely (though might not need to unless there's a ton of em), gliders do. How much defense do they get from swarm?
Disadvantages : Stealth works on a lot more than flying
Verdict : Probably situationally useful if for no other reason than the existence of the medusa.

Scimitar
Advantages over Manta : Very fast, Area damage, No Retaliation - kinda like prenerf dragon drones maybe
Disadvantages : Slightly lower stats, No contact, Could wind up neutered by turn ordering
Verdict : Potentially decent - different usage than manta (which i honestly barely if ever use at all) - could see it taking over where my dragon drones started failing to work because of their low stats against the beefy octopods and nautilus.

I wondered about the last point but why would I take the Scimitar when it doesn't have flying (the only reason I take the drone in the first place)

I agree with Medusa - i just take rogues to neutralise the first attack

GB feels a bit like beta stats of theKraken. Is the % chance high enough to justify the space. Seems a touch marginal atm. Unless you have a city of lvl 7 pillars!
 
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qaccy

Emperor
Edit : Now they've been removed from that page :/ Why do you like to hide stats on the units when many OF on live players aren't OF here to test them anyways and all we can do is look at the stats and speculate how we'd be able to use them.

It probably has to do with the official wiki being for the live version of the game, not beta. They're not really being 'hidden' as far as the wiki is concerned, but as it's maintained by Inno staff (I think?) it's probably a rule that only available content on the live servers is published there.

But hey, I've got some stats to work with now thanks to 1CCX so with that, let the partially-formed speculation commence!

Scimitar: Perhaps the most interesting of the three new units, as it's the only one with bonuses in stark contrast to its counterpart. However, this means that it effectively has no bonuses as well - it's weaker against heavy and fast units statistically, while the artillery and ranged units it's boosted against are also boosted against light units. Can we expect a wholesale shakeup of unit bonuses in OF now that there are 10 available units or what was the reasoning behind this? As is I'm not sure how effective it's going to be. Both artillery units in OF will be able to attack it before it can reach them, and ranged units will be able to do so as well (depending on when it has its turn; see below about unit speed).

Medusa: For a unit that simply can't move at all on its turn, it could use a much better design than its current form. First of all, it's statistically just a copy of the Turturret with the removal of movement and 'infinite' range. This is probably why it has a terrain bonus, which does not belong on an immobile unit for what I hope are fairly obvious reasons. Remove the terrain bonus and give it a boost in base stats to compensate - because it's very vulnerable to attacks thanks to Rapid Deployment, this should be concentrated in defense. I'll leave the actual numbers up to the devs, but remember that base stats scale with military bonus so even a little can add up to a lot here. Secondly, I'm not sure blast really makes sense. Why was the Medusa given this ability? It always moves first, so the only unit that is impacted by this ability is Hover Tanks. If this unit was introduced as a subtle way of addressing players finding significant success with HTs in their OF battles, I don't think Blast is good enough. Would it be possible to create a new ability for this unit, in that it simply destroys stealthed units in a single blow? Normal attack rules apply against anything without stealth, but if it attacks a stealthed unit it's simply gone. To this end, I would propose changing the light unit bonus to a fast unit bonus as well. A Medusa is unlikely to live long enough to attack a stealthed Eel, but cementing its role as an anti-stealth unit means it should include a bonus against the units capable of hiding.

Glider: This one's even more a carbon copy of its counterpart (Eels) than the Medusa is! At least OF finally has a flying unit though, which makes this by far the most mobile of them all (it can even cross water!). I can't really think of much else to say here; this unit seems 'good enough'. :p

All units: I'm wondering what the actual speed for them is. @Zarok Dai would you be able to pass along or possibly nudge the devs to implement a unit's speed stat into the game so that it's visible to players, or is it intended that this value is hidden? On the surface it's very odd to see units taking their turns in battle according to their movement stat up until Arctic Future, when suddenly some units start moving 'out of sequence' because this hidden variable begins to come into play (this of course also applies to rogues well before this point). Additionally, based on the Scimitar's current design/bonuses, perhaps an interesting idea would be to have two 'sets' of OF units - the Manta, Sub, Glider, Crab, and Turturret; and the Scimitar, Nautilus, Eel, Octopod, and Medusa. The distinction between 'sets' could be the unit bonuses, wherein they're completely opposite from each other. For example, the Manta is boosted against heavy and fast units, while the Scimitar is boosted against artillery and range units. This would continue down the line, such that each OF unit is strong against two units of that type, while being neutral (not actually weak since it would still have its defensive bonuses) against two units of that type. I swapped the positions of the Eel and Glider into the opposite 'sets' because, following my proposed adjustment to the Medusa, it makes more sense for the Eel to be redesigned to be countered by it. The Glider is not threatened by either of the artillery units though, which may actually be a balancing issue. But overall I think this might actually introduce a fair bit of complexity and strategy to battles by allowing two units of the same type to shine in different situations. Anyway, this post is long enough by now and the devs are probably never going to see it but I hope at least one of them does and that that it at least gives them something to think about.
 
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DeletedUser8150

Guest
It probably has to do with the official wiki being for the live version of the game, not beta. They're not really being 'hidden' as far as the wiki is concerned, but as it's maintained by Inno staff (I think?) it's probably a rule that only available content on the live servers is published there.

But hey, I've got some stats to work with now thanks to 1CCX so with that, let the partially-formed speculation commence!

Scimitar: Perhaps the most interesting of the three new units, as it's the only one with bonuses in stark contrast to its counterpart. However, this means that it effectively has no bonuses as well - it's weaker against heavy and fast units statistically, while the artillery and ranged units it's boosted against are also boosted against light units. Can we expect a wholesale shakeup of unit bonuses in OF now that there are 10 available units or what was the reasoning behind this? As is I'm not sure how effective it's going to be. Both artillery units in OF will be able to attack it before it can reach them, and ranged units will be able to do so as well (depending on when it has its turn; see above about unit speed).

Medusa: For a unit that simply can't move at all on its turn, it could use a much better design than its current form. First of all, it's statistically just a copy of the Turturret with the removal of movement and 'infinite' range. This is probably why it has a terrain bonus, which does not belong on an immobile unit for what I hope are fairly obvious reasons. Remove the terrain bonus and give it a boost in base stats to compensate - because it's very vulnerable to attacks thanks to Rapid Deployment, this should be concentrated in defense. I'll leave the actual numbers up to the devs, but remember that base stats scale with military bonus so even a little can add up to a lot here. Secondly, I'm not sure blast really makes sense. Why was the Medusa given this ability? It always moves first, so the only unit that is impacted by this ability is Hover Tanks. If this unit was introduced as a subtle way of addressing players finding significant success with HTs in their OF battles, I don't think Blast is good enough. Would it be possible to create a new ability for this unit, in that it simply destroys stealthed units in a single blow? Normal attack rules apply against anything without stealth, but if it attacks a stealthed unit it's simply gone. To this end, I would propose changing the light unit bonus to a fast unit bonus as well. A Medusa is unlikely to live long enough to attack a stealthed Eel, but cementing its role as an anti-stealth unit means it should include a bonus against the units capable of hiding.

Glider: This one's even more a carbon copy of its counterpart (Eels) than the Medusa is! At least OF finally has a flying unit though, which makes this by far the most mobile of them all (it can even cross water!). I can't really think of much else to say here; this unit seems 'good enough'. :p

All units: I'm wondering what the actual speed for them is. @Zarok Dai would you be able to pass along or possibly nudge the devs to implement a unit's speed stat into the game so that it's visible to players, or is it intended that this value is hidden? On the surface it's very odd to see units taking their turns in battle according to their movement stat up until Arctic Future, when suddenly some units start moving 'out of sequence' because this hidden variable begins to come into play (this of course also applies to rogues well before this point). Additionally, based on the Scimitar's current design/bonuses, perhaps an interesting idea would be to have two 'sets' of OF units - the Manta, Sub, Eel, Crab, and Turturret; and the Scimitar, Nautilus, Glider, Octopod, and Medusa. The distinction between 'sets' could be the unit bonuses, wherein they're completely opposite from each other. For example, the Manta is boosted against heavy and fast units, while the Scimitar is boosted against artillery and range units. This would continue down the line, such that each OF unit is strong against two units of that type, while being neutral (not actually weak since it would still have its defensive bonuses) against two units of that type. I think this might actually introduce a fair bit of complexity and strategy to battles by allowing two units of the same type to shine in different situations. Anyway, this post is long enough by now and the devs are probably never going to see it but I hope at least one of them does and that that it at least gives them something to think about.

Seems a good summery. Some of the units do seem not obviously different enough to make them that useful...but as ever its very hard until you really try them all.

On the GB: Medals is fine by me but perhaps population is more useful as most cities have more houses than they want or would like to kill an early population GB for an upgrade. We've not had a pop GB for a while.

+1 on Showing units priority
 

DeletedUser5097

Guest
It probably has to do with the official wiki being for the live version of the game, not beta. They're not really being 'hidden' as far as the wiki is concerned, but as it's maintained by Inno staff (I think?) it's probably a rule that only available content on the live servers is published there.

But hey, I've got some stats to work with now thanks to 1CCX so with that, let the partially-formed speculation commence!

Scimitar: Perhaps the most interesting of the three new units, as it's the only one with bonuses in stark contrast to its counterpart. However, this means that it effectively has no bonuses as well - it's weaker against heavy and fast units statistically, while the artillery and ranged units it's boosted against are also boosted against light units. Can we expect a wholesale shakeup of unit bonuses in OF now that there are 10 available units or what was the reasoning behind this? As is I'm not sure how effective it's going to be. Both artillery units in OF will be able to attack it before it can reach them, and ranged units will be able to do so as well (depending on when it has its turn; see above about unit speed).

Medusa: For a unit that simply can't move at all on its turn, it could use a much better design than its current form. First of all, it's statistically just a copy of the Turturret with the removal of movement and 'infinite' range. This is probably why it has a terrain bonus, which does not belong on an immobile unit for what I hope are fairly obvious reasons. Remove the terrain bonus and give it a boost in base stats to compensate - because it's very vulnerable to attacks thanks to Rapid Deployment, this should be concentrated in defense. I'll leave the actual numbers up to the devs, but remember that base stats scale with military bonus so even a little can add up to a lot here. Secondly, I'm not sure blast really makes sense. Why was the Medusa given this ability? It always moves first, so the only unit that is impacted by this ability is Hover Tanks. If this unit was introduced as a subtle way of addressing players finding significant success with HTs in their OF battles, I don't think Blast is good enough. Would it be possible to create a new ability for this unit, in that it simply destroys stealthed units in a single blow? Normal attack rules apply against anything without stealth, but if it attacks a stealthed unit it's simply gone. To this end, I would propose changing the light unit bonus to a fast unit bonus as well. A Medusa is unlikely to live long enough to attack a stealthed Eel, but cementing its role as an anti-stealth unit means it should include a bonus against the units capable of hiding.

Glider: This one's even more a carbon copy of its counterpart (Eels) than the Medusa is! At least OF finally has a flying unit though, which makes this by far the most mobile of them all (it can even cross water!). I can't really think of much else to say here; this unit seems 'good enough'. :p

All units: I'm wondering what the actual speed for them is. @Zarok Dai would you be able to pass along or possibly nudge the devs to implement a unit's speed stat into the game so that it's visible to players, or is it intended that this value is hidden? On the surface it's very odd to see units taking their turns in battle according to their movement stat up until Arctic Future, when suddenly some units start moving 'out of sequence' because this hidden variable begins to come into play (this of course also applies to rogues well before this point). Additionally, based on the Scimitar's current design/bonuses, perhaps an interesting idea would be to have two 'sets' of OF units - the Manta, Sub, Eel, Crab, and Turturret; and the Scimitar, Nautilus, Glider, Octopod, and Medusa. The distinction between 'sets' could be the unit bonuses, wherein they're completely opposite from each other. For example, the Manta is boosted against heavy and fast units, while the Scimitar is boosted against artillery and range units. This would continue down the line, such that each OF unit is strong against two units of that type, while being neutral (not actually weak since it would still have its defensive bonuses) against two units of that type. I think this might actually introduce a fair bit of complexity and strategy to battles by allowing two units of the same type to shine in different situations. Anyway, this post is long enough by now and the devs are probably never going to see it but I hope at least one of them does and that that it at least gives them something to think about.
Agreed on the Medusa's blast part and rapid deployment. Blast simply makes no sense. No light and no heavy unit has stealth.
If you want to keep so badly blast on this think, to knock out Hovertanks, than I suggest to give the Scimitar stealth, like HT.
Stealth on plains for that unit would be a improvment of the exchange of flying (compared to dragon drone) and is logical
progress of a Dragonbreath unit. This also create a situation where it makes sense for Medusa to having blast on it. From
designe chooise I understand that Medusa is droped from a ship, but we are fighting under a doom, so it breacks trhough
the doom?:s Anyways I suggest to replace rapid deployment for Reactive Armor x to give the discription makes sense, as a
heavy fighting artil. unit with great armor. Can't think of better armor than Rreactive armor.
For the Glider. Well ballanced unit. Flying makes the most sense for flying fish unit. This is great for this unit, nice to have
and makes the most sense of all units in the entire game. Swarm also makes a lot of sense. In RL they often are in swarms
and this increase their survivle chanches greatly. Same with swarm that makes the missing stealth compared to the eel
good.

so yeah, in short for the skills:

Medusa
Replace Rapid deployment for reactive armor x or some other defensive skill
Blast, see Scimitar

Scimitar
Add stealth, this makes Medusa makes more sense and you can knock out HT influnce, this also support natural progress of dragon breath units

Bonus suggestion for Medusa, to keep up the maritime theme, place rename it to Hydra, it's
just a small detaill, but it's easy to see also a Hydra in too it.

Thanks for reading, thanks for improving, thanks for this development :D
 

qaccy

Emperor
Seems a good summery. Some of the units do seem not obviously different enough to make them that useful...but as ever its very hard until you really try them all.

Yeah, unfortunately I'm unable to do that here on beta which is where feedback is most likely to be acted upon. :( I just don't have the time to devote to advancing a city over here, otherwise I'd be able to do much more than just speculate.

At least OF finally has the flying unit I always wanted!
 
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