Feedback The Virgo Project / Stargazer

[Teak]

This led the designers to look closer to the balancing.

In other words:

Screw the feedback, our developers are too lazy to get the job done, so we just cut the PvP “problem” so the whiners are happy and we release two completely useless GBs and make cash with the dummies?
This makes me kind of mad: What is the point of a feedback thread if the feedback to fix the issue is ignored and the lowbobs, who aren’t even close to get this GB up and running, get babysat?

 

[HossamAly]

as this is Beta and anything can change, I only want to confirm any change when it is being released to this server and not before. This avoids any misinformation being posted.

That's not the problem. The problem is releasing it to live servers and having people spend money on it with the intent to nerf it in a few weeks. I'm not questioning the motivation behind this, but it does look really bad.

 

[DeletedUser]

as this is Beta and anything can change

Oh yeah. And there would be live servers and still - anything can change... No difference to me, live is just beta-beta for you.

And @Zarok Dai don't take it personal, I know you have nothing to do with it nor it will affect your part of the job.

 

[Feanor II]

As you know we had a lot of feedback about Virgo having a potential negative impact if it worked against other players. This led the designers to look closer to the balancing. Then Envoy commented about this here on our forum, stating it would be excluded from PvP. However it was also stated we would update you all in the next few weeks.
So whether any changes are implemented before or after live release, as this is Beta and anything can change, I only want to confirm any change when it is being released to this server and not before. This avoids any misinformation being posted.

Virgo was never going to have a "potential negative impact" on PvP. It was going to have a potential impact. The "negative" part of that sentence is entirely subjective. IMO, it was going to have a potential positive impact by giving people who are being plundered all the time a means to fight back against a more advanced player. The bottom line is that some people threw a hissy fit that they wouldn't be able to plunder with impunity and Inno decided to take a bad GB and make it utterly awful to appease people who were upset that their victims might finally have a means to fight back. I was never going to build it, but I recognize the usefulness to some mid-level players.

 

[Logain Sedai]

As you know we had a lot of feedback about Virgo having a potential negative impact if it worked against other players. This led the designers to look closer to the balancing. Then Envoy commented about this here on our forum, stating it would be excluded from PvP. However it was also stated we would update you all in the next few weeks.
So whether any changes are implemented before or after live release, as this is Beta and anything can change, I only want to confirm any change when it is being released to this server and not before. This avoids any misinformation being posted.

That's not the problem. The problem is releasing it to live servers and having people spend money on it with the intent to nerf it in a few weeks. I'm not questioning the motivation behind this, but it does look really bad.

Yes, true, this is the Beta and this issue is a concern for the liver servers. I can understand that. It is also true that a lot of us Beta players are on the Beta partly to report to our guilds on the live servers (in addition to commenting on novelties and issues on the Beta).
So, yes it is not really your job to answer questions about the live servers, but we often get better feedback from you than from the live servers. .

So, we will have to pester the community managers of our respective servers (we have already started...

 

[DeletedUser9982]

@Zarok Dai

I can tell you 20 things that are going wrong with FoE, but it would be a waste of time.
But.. This is beyond anything else!

When you (Inno) have the arrogance, to stand in front of us, and announce MARS AGE, with GBs that are NERFED...
HAVE A LOOK AT YOURSELFS MAN!!

From a pointless GT from artic to Mars now, GE with level 4 STILL as a f...ing bonus level for the last 3 years that for many of us, its finished in 20 minutes!
GvG? GvDisaster!
And now.. This??
Are you going to change the GBs bonus, or are you just going to BS us???

I dont think you care!
We are not just players, let me tell you that!
We are costumers as well!
Wait.. wait.. wait..
Im going to flip right now!
DEVs, must do FoE as a part-time job, not be paid enough to dedicate 100% to Inno??

HUGE LACK OF COMUNICATION, between comunity manager and DEVs

Im seriously starting to struggle right now, to stay in this forum and give any form of feedback!
NO ONE CARES!

 

[DeletedUser10037]

Screw you Inno,

always that "Inno-Logic" that nobody could understand.
Oh wait the Users are unhappy with the new Gbs.
Lets make a feedback-thread "they said"

Most of them say the GBs are to weak.
As result
Inno: Ok we make then even worse^^

Good job? NO!!!!

That discussion about the ability from the the Virgo is rubbish.
I don't care about this s... from "air-strike" ability it makes no differnce and has no impact at the NB.
Look:
https://www.bilder-upload.eu/bild-5f82ac-1558724133.png.html

I destroy them in auto-fight, of course not always but about for 80% the win is mine.
So it means the new GB ability has no effect.

And i don't like to wait a few weeks for a clear vision from you.
I need the final stats right now right here.
Nothing else. If its trash how it looks like at the moment i will invest zero FP in that Gbs.

 

[DeletedUser9559]

Who is dumb enough to think that a company like Innogames would listen to their players/customers?
It's not the because there is a "community manager" here everyday, that it change something, even more in 2019...

 

[DeletedUser9982]

Who is dumb enough to think that a company like Innogames would listen to their players/customers?
It's not the because there is a "community manager" here everyday, that it change something, even more in 2019...

Pretending that everything is fine?
Dont count with me for that!

 

[xivarmy]

This thread was to improve the buildings so that people would want to build them. All this did was make sure people wouldn't leave the game if the building was built. It does not encourage the GB's being built and actually dissuades against it.

Was this thread to improve the buildings? Or was it to distract people wanting to vent over them so other things would be discussed in the main age feedback thread?

 

[Logain Sedai]

Just chiming in to give you an update on The Virgo Project.
Due to your passionate discussions about neighbourhood attacks, we decided to exclude the missile launch skill from neighbourhood attacks.
Expect an update about this soon (somewhen in the next few weeks).

Also, thank you for bringing this up!

It was clear from that moment, that this decision would create two camps: the happy ones and the angry ones. I have not read again all replies and comments on the Virgo Project, but I had the impression that there was a majority of players against this skills or indifferent to the whole GB. I guess this is why they took this decision. And it is their decision to take, even if we don't agree.

FOE is a game with so many ways to play it that there is no way all changes will please everybody. Also it has been evolving a lot since its beginning and the developpers keep implementing ideas to put new mechanics in the game. Now, more than in the past, we have the options to play or not some of the functionalities, to choose the GB that we need. The more they offer, the more chance they have to make some players happy but other players unhappy. And it is OK !

Now... Nerfing the Virgo Project is their decision, I can accept that. What I find really bad is their communication about it. But this bad communication does not concern the Beta server. @The Envoy has told us that the VP will not be able to attack the neighbourhood. I think they should have updated the SA.M presentation, so that it is clear, but maybe they wait that it is done...

But what is really bad in my opinion, is that the SA.M will be released with the VP unchanged and that it will be nerfed afterwards. It really does not make sense but this is to be discussed and argued on the live servers, not here on the Beta. I am not defending the Beta server or even Inno, but for me the players on the live servers are the ones who should complain, because it is not right to lauch a programme that you know will need to be modfied very soon.

On a lighter note, these disussions remind me of the comments of the last episodes of Season 8 of Games of Thrones....

 

[hddk]

Now... Nerfing the Virgo Project is their decision, I can accept that. What I find really bad is their communication about it. But this bad communication does not concern the Beta server. @The Envoy has told us that the VP will not be able to attack the neighbourhood. I think they should have updated the SA.M presentation, so that it is clear, but maybe they wait that it is done...

I agree, it should be clearly stated right now.

 

[Feanor II]

Now... Nerfing the Virgo Project is their decision, I can accept that.

Does it count as nerfing if it sucked to begin with?

On a lighter note, these disussions remind me of the comments of the last episodes of Season 8 of Games of Thrones....

All hail Innogames, Rulers of the ForgeLands and pathetic events, Developers of awful GBs, Nerfers of said awful GBs, Disappointers of formerly devout players, Ignorers of constructive feedback and basic math. Long may they reign! (though they probably won't unless they start playing their own game so they can understand what they did).

I feel like this is an appropriate spot for a meme of Daenerys's face when she finds out who Jon really is, with the words "Inno players when they see SA:M GBs". Unfortunately I'm too lazy to make one.

 

[Dan 49 the fearless]

Does it count as nerfing if it sucked to begin with?


All hail Innogames, Rulers of the ForgeLands and pathetic events, Developers of awful GBs, Nerfers of said awful GBs, Disappointers of formerly devout players, Ignorers of constructive feedback and basic math. Long may they reign! (though they probably won't unless they start playing their own game so they can understand what they did).

I feel like this is an appropriate spot for a meme of Daenerys's face when she finds out who Jon really is, with the words "Inno players when they see SA:M GBs". Unfortunately I'm too lazy to make one.

When they don't get the diamond sales from the purchase of the goods for the GBs then they'll finally figure it out

 

[Hiep Lin]

My last thought on the Virgo Project:

This is an excellent Guild GB perfect for Guild Battlegrounds, and its announced modification is a very good thing for those who build it because it will facilitate its use.
To explain to me I will consider a possible scenario:

Tom Pilea has built the Virgo Project and has 4 bonus possibilities.
With other members of his guild he decided to attack a province of Guild Battlegrounds together.
At 18:00 they all fight.
At 18:20 Tom Pilea meets too strong defenses, he will reap his Project Virgo to trigger the bonus.
At 18:25 he used 2 bonus possibilities and with the help of others, the province is conquered.
So Tom Pilea has 2 bonus possibilities left.
The guild wants to attack another province but it is protected, so we have to wait.

With the first version of Project Virgo, Tom Piléa is blocked, if he attacks his neighbors he will lose the 2 possibilities of bonus against weak defenses.

With the second version of the Virgo Project, Tom Pilea can attack all his neighbors and keep the 2 bonus possibilities for later fights on the Guild Battlegrounds.

3 (or 4 or 5) bonus to take a province from the Guild Battlegrounds is little, but 3 (or 4 or 5) bonus X 20 members to take a province from the Guild Battlegrounds is a lot.

My conclusion is:

The Virgo Project is an excellent guild GM perfectly suited for Guild Battlegrounds, and its announced modification is a very good thing.

Last point; He must not give fp as a second bonus. To use it on the Guild Battlegrounds, at the ideal moment, it will be necessary to leave harvests waiting to trigger the bonus when one meets defenses too strong. If the second bonus gives fp players will take the fp priority for them, even lose the military bonus. If the second bonus does not give fp the players will leave the harvest waiting for fights organized by the guild.

The guild will therefore have to prepare a strategy taking into account the Virgo Project harvests to prepare the attacks of the
Guild Battlegrounds.

My conclusion is:

The Virgo Project is an excellent guild GM perfectly suited for Guild Battlegrounds, and its announced modification is a very good thing.

 

[DeletedUser10037]

My last thought on the Virgo Project:

This is an excellent Guild GB perfect for Guild Battlegrounds, and its announced modification is a very good thing for those who build it because it will facilitate its use.
To explain to me I will consider a possible scenario:

Tom Pilea has built the Virgo Project and has 4 bonus possibilities.
With other members of his guild he decided to attack a province of Guild Battlegrounds together.
At 18:00 they all fight.
At 18:20 Tom Pilea meets too strong defenses, he will reap his Project Virgo to trigger the bonus.
At 18:25 he used 2 bonus possibilities and with the help of others, the province is conquered.
So Tom Pilea has 2 bonus possibilities left.
The guild wants to attack another province but it is protected, so we have to wait.

With the first version of Project Virgo, Tom Piléa is blocked, if he attacks his neighbors he will lose the 2 possibilities of bonus against weak defenses.

With the second version of the Virgo Project, Tom Pilea can attack all his neighbors and keep the 2 bonus possibilities for later fights on the Guild Battlegrounds.

3 (or 4 or 5) bonus to take a province from the Guild Battlegrounds is little, but 3 (or 4 or 5) bonus X 20 members to take a province from the Guild Battlegrounds is a lot.

My conclusion is:

The Virgo Project is an excellent guild GM perfectly suited for Guild Battlegrounds, and its announced modification is a very good thing.

Last point; He must not give fp as a second bonus. To use it on the Guild Battlegrounds, at the ideal moment, it will be necessary to leave harvests waiting to trigger the bonus when one meets defenses too strong. If the second bonus gives fp players will take the fp priority for them, even lose the military bonus. If the second bonus does not give fp the players will leave the harvest waiting for fights organized by the guild.

The guild will therefore have to prepare a strategy taking into account the Virgo Project harvests to prepare the attacks of the
Guild Battlegrounds.

My conclusion is:

The Virgo Project is an excellent guild GM perfectly suited for Guild Battlegrounds, and its announced modification is a very good thing.

Thats one off the biggest rubbish thread that i've ever read.

Too strong defense? I never meet them in the intire game. Only too weak players which can't play the game effectiffly.
My playstyle ever was PROGRESS; PROGRESS and PROGRESS nothing more nothing less.
Not to have fun in the game.
The only reason for me is to getting stronger and stronger.

And with that one hell of rubbish GBs i can't do this push even further.
Even my tower of babel is in my META-Ranklist even higher.

So now you can imagine how worse the GBs is.

And some off our players have meanwhile over 800% Attack and 270% Attack-Defense.
So theres ist no reason to build this CRAP-Building.

This is GB is only good for Noob-Players not for High-pushed FP-Factorys and Attack-Citys.
Always updates against big players.
Say only Arc-bonus no bonus over 100% possible.

So bad on you inno and be ashamed for this update.

EDIT: NormaJeane - 2019-05-26 - replaced inappropriate word.​

 

[Hiep Lin]

Thats one off the biggest rubbish thread that i've ever read.

Too strong defense? I never meet them in the intire game.

I'm talking about Guild Battlegrounds, not neighbors ...
As the defensive bonus increases with each fight you will have a limit.

 

[Teak]

I'm talking about Guild Battlegrounds, not neighbors ...
As the defensive bonus increases with each fight you will have a limit.

... Guild battlegrounds will be steamroled by the highendguilds‘ low age high GBs players, which are in the MA or even below with 450|250 % and 20k units in the bank. The high players will keep the GvG clean and boost their combat count, while the „low“ players in those guilds will wipe the rest...
no virgo needed

 

[qaccy]

I'd like to suggest (as @Teak I believe pointed out earlier) that the SAM GBs are intended mostly for the top players rather than everybody in general (unless they really want them). While most see the effects are underwhelming for their cost, I think they'd still be better choices to invest FP into than adding another handful of levels to GBs that are already near, at, or even beyond 100. Essentially, if there's nothing else you have that's worth levelling or you're already 'done' with levelling them, then these GBs are still a lot better than filling their 5x5 footprints with other military bonuses/goods production.

 

[Dan 49 the fearless]

I'd like to suggest (as @Teak I believe pointed out earlier) that the SAM GBs are intended mostly for the top players rather than everybody in general (unless they really want them). While most see the effects are underwhelming for their cost, I think they'd still be better choices to invest FP into than adding another handful of levels to GBs that are already near, at, or even beyond 100. Essentially, if there's nothing else you have that's worth levelling or you're already 'done' with levelling them, then these GBs are still a lot better than filling their 5x5 footprints with other military bonuses/goods production.

Why would you be 'done' leveling them? That supposes that you have a better use for the fps. eg I stopped leveling my TA because I focused on my AO. The tiny gain that the Virgo gives is not worth the thousands of fps necessary to get it there. A player would benefit much more from leveling their zeus to 200 than building the Virgo as it is. As has been said before, the Virgo is so overpowered that it could only be balanced by giving it very few hits, but the fact that it gets so few hits makes it not worth building at all.

As to the Stargazer, yes I could see value in it, but not really for top age players. If inno adopted my change to allow it be goods of an age below that the player can change then it would be a building that every guild playing GvG would need.