• Dear forum reader,
    To actively participate in our forum discussions or to start your own threads, in addition to your game account you need a forum account. You can
    REGISTER HERE!
    Please ensure a translation in to English is provided if your post is not in English and to respect your fellow players when posting.

Feedback Winter 2018

  • Thread starter Retired Community Manager
  • Start date

Emberguard

Emperor
Thank you for your response. Can you help me understand better why adding alternatives reduces variety? Alternatives give players a variety of ways to advance past a step in the quest.

Because A (or) B is the same as B (or) A. If everything is always an alternative then you've halved your pool of possibilities without just repeating the same quests.

And generally speaking if two options are given it's the same option that's always going to be taken for any given player - thus less variety for the player. If you're fighting geared you're not going to bother with an (or negotiate) option unless you absolutely have to. So in effect you've actually eliminated entire quest types for players by providing alternatives

Good game design will encourage player growth or force them to make a decision on how to proceed. Having too many alternatives does the exact opposite of that
 
Last edited:

DeletedUser8024

Guest
Excellent explanation! I guess for me the problem is that I think it is a mistake to force some people to push past an age before they are desiring to move on. But I see your point about pushing players past what they want. I suppose, for me, if I get pushed too far, then I can just abandon my city and start a new one. (Of course I can't do that in beta, but the point of beta is to improve the game and not my personal pleasure)
 

Emberguard

Emperor
Ah but here's the thing, you can never go backwards in the game, only forwards or stay at a standstill.

If you want to start again you're losing all your progress. Events will never push you too quickly unless you were already at the edge of where you can go with your current situation. If the part that you've been pushed in is lack of (previous) goods that's easy fixed. Just build goods buildings from the previous age, build up your goods GBs as that'll give current age and never negotiate in GE or DC until you've got a adequate stock again. Previous age take less housing then current age goods buildings and you'll have increased housing in the new age if you can make a beeline to that tech


Map wise is easy enough to fix as long as you're not racing ahead multiple ages above your current age deliberately. The pace of the events is such that they alone will never force you to do so unless you're simply not advancing at all in the tech tree.

So if you do find yourself reaching the limits of your current map progress you should look at your Attack GBs, how much goods stock you have and whether you're ready to advance to the next age or stay in the current age.

By Industrial Age I've basically been living off of CDM (lvl 8) and Zeus (lvl 9) and am able to keep up with the map just fine. The CoA is still only lvl 2.

If you are worried about whether you'll end up too far ahead on the map you can always leave spaces. Not every province has to be scouted or conquered for you to keep advancing on the map. This will give you easy cannon fodder from a previous age for when a event requires it


Bottom line:
If the plan is to restart anyway are you really losing any more by focusing on strengthening the weak parts of your current city instead of starting from scratch? In the time it takes you to restructure your current city and get it upto date with the map how much would you have done in the new city? Even if you win every event that comes up in the brand new city during the timeframe restructuring of your old city takes - would it be equal to or greater then what you'd be losing by working on the old city until it's able to compete in events again?
 
Last edited:

DeletedUser8024

Guest
Great advice and ideas. Thank you.

I enjoy mining the recurring quests and special events. If I have advanced to a new age, then I lose those from the previous age. That pushes me into a mode where I have to bring my production buildings up to that new age.

I agree that starting over has a huge cost.
 

Emberguard

Emperor
If you want to specifically mine recurring quests then you've got a choice to make - do you prefer the side quests and then recurring quests, or are you mining enough recurring quests that you can just abort all side quests and be straight into new age recurring?

and yeah, production buildings will need updating. Not a clue what age you're in, but by the time you reach Colonial/Industrial age a production building fully pays itself off in a week. Which leaves more then enough time once that week is up to prepare for the next event. You'd also likely have enough supplies and coins in stock that the week wait wouldn't be an issue for day to day producing goods and going through a few techs (there's no way you'd rush through colonial or industrial in a week).
 

DeletedUser9606

Guest
Dear beta members,

I think Inno's idea of putting alternative quests in winter event and others to research a technology and acquire a sector is a fantastic idea! This way they insure themselves that some players won't abandon the game. It keeps them hooked! To make it more clear some players have advanced too much into the campaign map ant technology tree meaning for them to stay still in their current age (explained below). So if there wasn't an option to research a technology or acquire a sector in the event quests to get the awesome rewards they are more likely to quit the game. We don't want that. That way having variety makes both players happy and I believe variety in these types of quests is brilliant. As those that haven't advanced too much can complete the normal quests (research a technology or acquire a sector) and those that don't have that option due to several reasons such as staying in their current age due to cheaper recurring quests or saving items before making the jump and want to still play the game can do alternatives. Some players as mentioned above may want to keep on doing recurring quests in their current age due to smaller amounts of coins and supplies required for these quests than when achieved in the next age and giving them alternatives to as many as possible event quests is fantastic. So, both type of players should be able to get the awesome awards if a variety exists. Additionally if some event quests limit the possibilities for players without advancing to next age I think it can be a dangerous idea, cause the possibility of starting a new game from a bronze age if you already achieved HMA/AF will make these players more likely to quit the game than start from the beginning. Everyone wants the awesome prizes from the winter event and there shouldn't be a priority given to which players can get them and which should advance to a next age and become super weak in that age as advancing requires more everything (coins, supplies, kits, etc.) to update all the special buildings and build new ones.

To sum up variety in event quests such as the ones to research a technology or acquire a sector should make both type of players happy and I believe is a tremendously awesome idea by Inno.

Sincerely,
Penki
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser9525

Guest
The event seems OK, with a reasonable range of prizes, especially if the major prize can be achieved by completing all quests and not having to spend any more diamonds that the event itself might generate... I don't see the purpose behind the matches though. If the prizes for lighting the entire tree are pre-determined there does not appear to be any strategic value in holding on to the matches. So why not just have opening the present light 1, 2 or 3 candles? Eliminating matches would make it easier for many people to understand the new event.
 

DeletedUser5955

Guest
@BetaTest03
actualy it is.
why do i do sectorsand provinces? answer is:L to have quiet time doing quest so all quests "take province / sector by nego / fight" will be done automaticly - and thats all

The rewards on the main map are 99% CRAP and SH!T worthl;ess and pointless.
why the frac stuff like coins or supplies are as reward?
I hate doing province due to crap rewards and to have 1 expansion per gazilions of provinces is just pointless
1 expansion is not worth that much while in virtual futiure especialy when toget it i must do gazilion stuff that is realy pointless.

So @BetaTest03 dont expect others to do stuff that is simply outdated, pointless and worthless.
I sugeest to either change rewards to way way better ones or change the map entirely - example - instead of goods / cpoins / supplies thinlk of new buildings only availible for doing maps with better stats then technology buildings.
or offer forge points per sector, or fragments of shrink kits or even shroink kits - then more ppl will be way more enthusiatic aboput world map and stop treating it as nusiance
 

AGranolaBar

Squire
So, I'm doing the Winter Quests and in the green counter bar it shows that I am currently completing quest #11 but i wrote them down as i went through them and i am at #14. I also received the Winter Spire Lvl 1 reward after completing quest #12. I really do not think i miscounted. Can anyone help?
upload_2018-11-11_21-58-19.png
 

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
So, I'm doing the Winter Quests and in the green counter bar it shows that I am currently completing quest #11 but i wrote them down as i went through them and i am at #14. I also received the Winter Spire Lvl 1 reward after completing quest #12. I really do not think i miscounted. Can anyone help?
View attachment 3473

Are you perhaps counting the 10 star login quest each day (which isn't part of the 71)?
 

DeletedUser8024

Guest
And generally speaking if two options are given it's the same option that's always going to be taken for any given player - thus less variety for the player. If you're fighting geared you're not going to bother with an (or negotiate) option unless you absolutely have to. So in effect you've actually eliminated entire quest types for players by providing alternatives

I suppose I am thinking they could add alternatives that do not normally appear in a quest. An extreme example might be to "Sell 1 Wishing Well." Not everyone has one of those so it couldn't be a stand-alone quest, but it could be an alternative. I think there are many possibilities that rarely or never appear now.
 

LordVaderIII

Marquis
The event seems OK, with a reasonable range of prizes, especially if the major prize can be achieved by completing all quests and not having to spend any more diamonds that the event itself might generate... I don't see the purpose behind the matches though. If the prizes for lighting the entire tree are pre-determined there does not appear to be any strategic value in holding on to the matches. So why not just have opening the present light 1, 2 or 3 candles? Eliminating matches would make it easier for many people to understand the new event.
I agree. The matches really serve no purpose. Just one more layer to add confusion to the event.
 

DeletedUser9611

Guest
Maybe it's just because I have less than 30 days in this world, or maybe it's because I only have 22 blacksmiths, or maybe it's because I don't even have all the goods to attempt the negotiations and need supplies to produce them, or maybe it's just that I'm feeling a little whiny today, but man, the "pay some supplies" quests are super harsh... Right out of the gate I need 5200 (which took almost a full day at 15-minute productions) and then 2 days later its double that at 10400 supplies... that's almost 3 days worth the supply farming for 2 quests...
Which I understand isn't an issue for someone with 5M in the bank, but to anyone with less than 3 months of full-time play invested, it's a long, long, long dark tunnel without any hope of seeing the light at the far end of a 12 upgrade grand prize... Even if they were reduced by 50%, I'd still feel the pain, but any kind of reduction, or even if the there was a "pay some supplies OR do something else that doesn't hurt a new guy so much" would be a great improvement...
 

Emberguard

Emperor
That way having variety makes both players happy and I believe variety in these types of quests is brilliant
I love variety too, it's just there comes a point where because of the alternate quests some types of quests are never used. Some because they can't be completed by those that have unique [self imposed] circumstances, but also because one can be done in a fraction of the time as the other. That's less variety and more eliminating entire options.

Now if you have it designed in such as way that all the alternatives you didn't complete come back and if you want more event currency they have to be completed, that would be variety. Those that want to avoid those quests should be fine as you don't always need the entire questline complete to get a fully lvl'd event building

Everyone wants the awesome prizes from the winter event and there shouldn't be a priority given to which players can get them and which should advance to a next age and become super weak in that age as advancing requires more everything (coins, supplies, kits, etc.) to update all the special buildings and build new ones.
There is no priority of who gets a reward. Everyone has the same opportunities to grow and complete the event. The difference is certain players decide they want to focus on 10% of the game and still receive 100% of the reward.

Yes you are allowed to camp. But if a player refuses to grow in any other area then a specific niche strategy then that strategy is not flexible. If a player is not flexible then they cannot expect to be able to complete every challenge that comes their way. The moment anything in the game changes their strategy is going to fall apart if they;re unwillinging to change any of it for any reason

What I don't understand is why people think not receiving a event building is a game breaker - or that they're entitled to the best reward if they're not willing to change their strategy to suit the game they're playing

This way they insure themselves that some players won't abandon the game. It keeps them hooked!
Yes and no. If you cater to every little whim to the point where all the challenge is removed, then you train your player base to start expecting less and less challenges. If there's no challenge, how long are they going to stay hooked?

I used to think the challenging games I was hooked on would be better if the end goal was reached immediately or if the challenges were removed so I could beat XYZ easily. But as soon as I got my hands on a shortcut through a ingame cheat code guess what? The game became worthless to me until I turned the code off and did it properly. This isn't just one game here, this is every game I've ever tried cheat codes on to speed things up. Even the ones that required in game currency to activate and did a seemingly small thing were no fun at all - even less so if you skipped to the end of the list

I suppose I am thinking they could add alternatives that do not normally appear in a quest. An extreme example might be to "Sell 1 Wishing Well." Not everyone has one of those so it couldn't be a stand-alone quest, but it could be an alternative. I think there are many possibilities that rarely or never appear now.
I like your thinking of it being a bunch of unique quests for events when it comes to alternatives. Somehow I don't think there'd be many within those that own Wishing Wells who would delete their well though.


the "pay some supplies" quests are super harsh... Right out of the gate I need 5200 (which took almost a full day at 15-minute productions) and then 2 days later its double that at 10400 supplies... that's almost 3 days worth the supply farming for 2 quests...
3 days for 2 quests is 1.5 days per quest. Which isn't too bad depending on how long it takes you for other quests. Which is of course why you think there's a problem - the other quests need goods which needs supplies

That being said, which age are you in? Bronze or Iron? If you're in Iron Age I'd recommend you go through the start of GE if you can for the supplies there. In Iron Age the first 8 encounters can almost entirely be done by spearmen (although if you want it completed first try you'd want to use a couple iron age troops to support them)
 
Last edited:

DeletedUser8024

Guest
I like your thinking of it being a bunch of unique quests for events when it comes to alternatives. Somehow I don't think there'd be many within those that own Wishing Wells who would delete their well though.

I chose an extreme one to sort of make the point that if a player like me REALLY doesn't want to acquire a sector, then maybe I should be challenged to give up something very valuable. On the other hand, it might just piss off people more than having no choice! ;)

I do think there's a way to include choice without eliminating variety by adding some unusual alternatives to the set of quests that tend to push players into new ages.
 

DeletedUser8743

Guest
So, I'm doing the Winter Quests and in the green counter bar it shows that I am currently completing quest #11 but i wrote them down as i went through them and i am at #14. I also received the Winter Spire Lvl 1 reward after completing quest #12. I really do not think i miscounted. Can anyone help?
View attachment 3473
Actually the progress bar shows you as having completed 12 quests (see the 12/21).
 
Top