Update 1.02.14877

[DeletedUser2752]

That's quite stupid to program an infinite loop.

Note: I didn't try it out; it's just my guess

On the contrary, I still think artillery is very strong - I'm in LMA, and still getting way more mileage out of my trebuchets than everything else combined (including my quest musketeers). Just now, I need to think about what I'm doing in battle rather than hitting "rocks fall, everyone dies".

In these ages, long range are
InA/CA = useless
LMA = very useful when using trebs since it's difficult for cannons to reach you (but I wouldn't guarantee to use them every time)
HMA & down = useful unless facing other long range

 

[DeletedUser]

I think we're getting to too much extreme with our conclusions without anyone having really tested this out thouroughly.

Has anyone tried to shoot a Howitzer with a Breechloader? Howitzers have the Blast bonus so to kill it with other units means getting within its range and that means BIG return damage. Hitting it with a Breechloader isn't just the most effective (with the bonus against heavy units) but also the only way to hit it from outside its range. Let's not forget that, with enough forests, jaegers are practically invincible if it weren't for Howitzers. So I'm imagining experience will reveal a formation of Breechloaders and jaegers that could be very lethal as the jaegers hide in forests and Breechloaders protect them from Howitzers. I wouldn't go as far as confirming this, as I haven't really tested it well yet. And in the same way I expect others to tune down their "written in stone" conclusions while this has barely been rolled out since a week.

@Pembar, if I know anything about client-server programming, there's no infinite loop at all into the fact that jaegers keep hiding indefinitely. Every time you make a move, the AI will calculate the optimal move for its jaeger (in one cycle, no looping required) and decides that staying hidden is the best. No more looping than any other kind of action. But in all cases, the simplicity of a certain programming structure is not at all an indication of its stupidity.

 

[piohh]

I don't think so... we have some ppl. in the top ten who test the new AI enough.

after the PvP start this week (2 days) I have 121 fights with a amount of 563.182 Points... ~4654 Points each fight.

but the question is easy

For what we need Breech Loader?
Artillery is on the end of each age to research it. Breech Loader need some space 3x5 and need the most population (1475) and recources (147.000G and 149.000S) to build it... but for what?

In IA and CA this units are useless... its only a decoration ^^

 

[thephantom]

As altaica pointed out above - Breech Loaders are still effective against Howitzers. They're also effective versus short-range.

The thing is, long-range units were effective against everything up till now, which was downright wrong. Now all units are useful, all of them against the units they have a bonus for (plus partially for one or two more in some cases). Long-range was dethroned as the most powerful unit and now every unit is useful in its way, I see this as a good improvement. More tactics, more challenge, more fun.

What's the point of doing a daily routine of PvP where you poop over everyone without even putting some thought in strategy? Someone brought up that this is "history being taken away from FoE because long-range became useless" - well, sorry, but what empire has ever gone through 80 others with no casualties? Sure, pillage villages and similar, but a retribution even from the smallest empire would cause you casualties, let alone when going after several empires that are on your same level. That sounds like history to me.

Furthermore, if we're talking history with long-range, then let's not forget that they were only useful for destroying buildings and hitting groups of people, but are horrid with precision and a single man could go against them quite easily. Just look at the Jagger/Ranger as that man here.

 

[DeletedUser2752]

I'm just complaining because you spend the most for them. If all the cost were equal, I would have no problem at all.

 

[piohh]

As altaica pointed out above - Breech Loaders are still effective against Howitzers. They're also effective versus short-range.

First you don't know the defence of your neighbors. I change my defence each day.
Seccond... before you have the chance to destroy howitzers... Riflemans, Lancer and Jeager destroy your Breech Loader first. Thats the target of all units... destroy Artillery first.

 

[BestWarrior]

When will we have the new bonus map?

Thank's

 

[DeletedUser]

@Pembar, if I know anything about client-server programming, there's no infinite loop at all into the fact that jaegers keep hiding indefinitely. Every time you make a move, the AI will calculate the optimal move for its jaeger (in one cycle, no looping required) and decides that staying hidden is the best. No more looping than any other kind of action. But in all cases, the simplicity of a certain programming structure is not at all an indication of its stupidity.

I was talking about using the auto-resolve battle option. They mentioned that using that option triggers the new AI on the attacking side, which means that if you have 1 jaeger in a forest deciding that staying hidden is the best and another 1 jaeger in another forest deciding that staying hidden is the best. It's an infinite loop and the battle never gets resolved.

 

[DeletedUser]

First you don't know the defence of your neighbors. I change my defence each day.
Seccond... before you have the chance to destroy howitzers... Riflemans, Lancer and Jeager destroy your Breech Loader first. Thats the target of all units... destroy Artillery first.

If this is true then that's great, means AI is not sitting back and attacks you instead(unless they are jägers in forest). Because alternative would be long range just slowly killing them while they sit back and do nothing, now how dumb would be that? But this is kinda what my AI defended archers did against human long range armies and what I my last post was about. Anyways problem is when should AI move in, when should it defend instead. It is hard to code and human will always know better. That's why I'm rather confident I will be using some range units in fights in future as well. Just to make AI move in if nothing better.

Btw Pembar, it was said above that attacking side will move in first should there be AI vs AI loop situation coming up. So no loop.

 

[piohh]

@ hint... but thats not the answer of my qestion...

I will know for what we can use Breech Loader... for fights this is useless

In Gemany we have a nice saying "Mit Kanonen auf Spatzen schießen"
translate... "With canon shoot sparrows (birds)" here shoot a sparrows (bird) to a canon first.

 

[thephantom]

First you don't know the defence of your neighbors. I change my defence each day.
Seccond... before you have the chance to destroy howitzers... Riflemans, Lancer and Jeager destroy your Breech Loader first. Thats the target of all units... destroy Artillery first.

I take notes of who has what. If someone changes it daily then once you attack you'll know if the battle is worth doing or not, and then surrender. And here you're talking about a combination of units - if they have riflemans, lancers, or jaegers, then obviously they won't have full 8 long-range as well, so you can prioritize. Are you going to have just 8 long-range as well? Then, you're screwed, which is fine because you shouldn't be able to breach any defense. If you have a mix yourself, go ahead and hit the ones you think will do the most damage first.

On the other hand, if you feel like long-range are completely useless units, then you can remove the buildings from your city (which someone mentioned take up a lot of space), which will give you free space to build whatever you think has now become the most powerful unit. If that's Jaegers in your opinion, then you can almost fit 2 buildings in that same place.

 

[piohh]

ok. today I use the long range for IA last...

My units:
1 Breech loader
3 Rifleman
3 Jaeger
1 Howitzer

I move with 7 units forward to the middle of the map... and what you think? all units accross my units and attack only the Breech loader... thats logic pur...

 

[DeletedUser]

and what you think? all units accross my units and attack only the Breech loader

Hmm... so it took all the other 8 units to take down your breech loader? Seems that I have to nerf it a little then... clearly, no single unit should be able to withstand that many attacks.

Thanks for pointing this out,

Anwar

 

[piohh]

sorry Anwar all other units ignore my other units and attack only the breech loader. After the breech loader died he will attack my other units but to late I kill them all first ^^

Edit: another question... why Lancer attack Lancer/Jaeger and not Riflemans first? Jaeger have bonus against Lancer and the Lancer a bonus aginst Rifleman, but I see in my replays thats my Lancer attack the Lancer/Jaeger first...

 

[DeletedUser2752]

Yea, the short range is being ignored for some weird reason. Good thing it got to the en server, so I can find out many other faults of these AI.

 

[DeletedUser]

.......
What's the point of doing a daily routine of PvP where you poop over everyone without even putting some thought in strategy? Someone brought up that this is "history being taken away from FoE because long-range became useless" - well, sorry, but what empire has ever gone through 80 others with no casualties?.......

Well, between 1939 and 1941, Germany rolled over Poland, Denmark, Norway, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxemburg, France, Yugoslavia and Greece with hardly any casualties, but then again, the AI of those countries was still in early Beta. After the devs tweaked it a bit, the invasions became a bit more difficult and Germany had to start with healing and rebuilding it's troops. Once ze Germanz ran out of money for diamonds, their surge was stopped and they decided to quit the game.

 

[DeletedUser2752]

Stop reading the FoE tales HaekelHansi, we know it's a myth!

 

[DeletedUser4008]

anyone can add characteristics of the new troops?

 

[BestWarrior]

Brave Warriors are undercovered Rangers?

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