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Feedback Space Age Venus (SAV)

BritishBoy

Marquis
Depends on what they call an exploit. If it is endless fighting to get millions of ranking points than y not just modify those fighting quests. For example give ranking points only after you complete whole quest not just fighting part? If it is tonns of goods from investing fps than what about years I've spent levelling my CF sky high? Throw it away now?
Definitely not happy with current state of things.
 

m.s.b.

Farmer
Okay, so the RQ limit is 2000 aborts. Finally we know!

Random thoughts:
  • This makes it even more advantageous to stay in ages like TE with fewer RQs to cycle through.
  • In a reasonably good case, you are aborting something like 6 quests per quest completed. That's 333 completed quests per day which is:
    • ~120 fp
    • 3000 goods for high level CF, 6000+ for a very very high level one
    • takes about 45 mins of clicking to complete
  • This will be much lower, like half or less, for higher ages with more aborts required.
  • Conversely, this obviously gets higher the more RQs you complete as opposed to abort—you might be able to get the average down to like 3 or 4 per complete in some circumstances. In that case you could double the above numbers.
I have extremely mixed feelings about this.
  • CF is still a great GB, especially for goods
  • This is a *far* more reasonable, low-effort solution than the lag that (I still believe) was deliberately introduced (and then recanted and disavowed).
  • There are clearly better (but higher-effort) solutions.
  • Let's be clear that this is an *enormous* nerf for the most active and invested players.
  • This is a significant change for that very-invested audience that is *still* being done essentially without communication. Certainly without any communication in terms of the game design rationale.
I think I could potentially swallow it with some extremely thoughtful and inspired communication, but as is it's frankly a really bitter pill for me. I climbed to #1 on USP using an extremely CF-centric strategy. It was really fun doing something unique, and I don't regret it at all—it's been a blast! But I think I'm going to remain in retirement, unfortunately. It just feels like outside-the-box play, which was most of the fun for me, is being punished.
 
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xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
This makes it even more advantageous to stay in ages like TE with fewer RQs to cycle through.
  • In a reasonably good case, you are aborting something like 6 quests per quest completed. That's 333 completed quests per day which is:
    • ~120 fp
    • 3000 goods for high level CF, 6000+ for a very very high level one
    • takes about 45 mins of clicking to complete
  • This will be much lower, like half or less, for higher ages with more aborts required.
  • Conversely, this obviously gets higher the more RQs you complete as opposed to abort—you might be able to get the average down to like 3 or 4 per complete in some circumstances. In that case you could double the above numbers.

I think you underestimate how much higher you can get the quest vs abort ratio:

In those early ages you can do 2 quests vs 5 aborts by doing the spend FP as well as the unbirthday.

In pre-SAAB you can time the bulk of your quests with collection and get in some extra coin/supply collections too

Outside of collection-time:
In AF you can Spend FP twice (likely consumes your 2nd quest slot to do both at once so you have to abort everything you're not immediately completing unless you lucked into a story hiatus), "Unbirthday" Twice, build 8 decorations for 5 completes vs 7 aborts. You could also add in the happiness gains if you're a little crazy :p This has always been a good age for FP-spending questers (i.e. other than sitting in a very low age).

In OF you can Spend FP once, Unbirthday once, Buy FP once, hold onto both collection quests because you can have 3 recurring slots simply by finishing the OF story, and only have to abort the 3 6x24 hr productions, and the gain happiness by disqualifying yourself from the rest (have lots of population, military units, and be at the end of the OF tree). Since it looked like they were going to limit aborts in some way this is the age I've figured to be "ideal" in terms of largest amount of quests completed. 3 completes vs 4 aborts with occasional bonus completions from coins & supplies.

If the FP is relevant to you in SAM+ the reward doubles to compensate for more aborts per completion and the Colony can make up for some of the goods you're missing out on.

In SAAB/SAV there's a whole bunch of weird quests that are usually aborted and maybe you can think on "sometimes I could do that I guess".

---

I think AF/OF will be the sweet spot for questing, and then you'll have to convince yourself of a plan to keep up/not lose too much when you want to move to SAM some day.
 

drakenridder

Overlord
Perk Creator
now they must limit the Arc
> X fps max. reward / GB
> X max. number of GB's you can contribute in at once / day

@CrashBoom we really had to bring them on ideas, isn't it :p


My thoughts of this anti abuse. It's a bit late to introduce, I dunno like
years late since you can raise GB's lvls only limited tot he BD sets you
can obtain and the fps you can muster or with the introduction Progressive
Era. This abuse prevention should be high on the list, if they'll ever make
a FoE remastered.
Anyways I feel like this type of abuse was predictable, to be expected with
FC + no hard GB lvl cap. While it does solve any abusive usage of FC in
combination with RQ's, it simple doesn't stop the usage of bots, which
are forbidden. I feel like the solutions given to detect bots users and giving
them a penalty still should be implemented. As not acting to violation result
in a somewhat anarchic environment.

In my personal opinion the best way to fighting off the use of bots, is already
given. It could even reducing the harm done by the hard limit on the real
players, although only slight. Giving the different RQ's in random order. Meaning
that the desired RQ could theoretically speaking come twice in a row, if it was
at the end of a cycle. While it heavily hurts the bot users. As bots are mostly based
off number of clicks and repeat. This would mean that the ''wrong'' RQ would
eventually show up during this cycle of robotic clicks and the bot just failing
and likely burning far more faster through the daily number of RQ's. The only bots
that ain't affected by it would be more advanced and able to ''read'' the presented
RQ's. Which perhaps could be easier to detect.
 

Devilsangel

Baronet
Got the message today) took me 6 GBs and not a lot of time lazy cycling, not constant...
Well the cap is overkill, while probably most people don't do that much on a daily basis, me included, its still sad to see a limit designed for normal players, not bots. Guessing most of the players switching ages on the first day will reach it on the firsts days if not weeks of Venus
On android, if there was still a question if it was limited to pc
 

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
Got the message today) took me 6 GBs and not a lot of time lazy cycling, not constant...
Well the cap is overkill, while probably most people don't do that much on a daily basis, me included, its still sad to see a limit designed for normal players, not bots. Guessing most of the players switching ages on the first day will reach it on the firsts days if not weeks of Venus
On android, if there was still a question if it was limited to pc

The limit *is* designed for bots - i.e. to bring them down to a point where you can say "well a normal player could do that, so why bot?" And to even give the normal player an advantage in that they're likely to be more open to doing extra quests contextually and saving themselves aborts.
 

The Babelus

Steward
no it is not

bots are forbidden
if the limit is for bots then all accounts reaching it must be banned because they are bots

:rolleyes:

the only thing for bots that should be in the game is an auto-ban :p
Bots are forbidden and quite easy to discover by support. However it is almost impossible to discover mouse click automatiom tool.
 
my thoughts
now they must limit the Arc
the best players on a server make 10k+ profit a day

and limit fighting to 200 fights a day

No! You are wrong! They must limit much more!

1) Total number of clicks to like 100... so if you motivate your friends/guild/hood... you are done in the middle of it...
2) Points you can contribute to GBs... to some arbitrary number that is not offensive to any group of people....
3) I dont know... they will come up with some stupid crap that nobody but them would come up with...


Seriously? Instead of banning botters... lets create some stupid ways to limit a gameplay... I guess those botters are huge diamonds buyers otherwise I have no idea why they do this instead of ban them... but MONEY FIRST! right? :eek:)
 
BTW... in SAAB you could see how these RQs could be abused... normal sane person would take lesson from that... and remove them... but for some insane reason we have those same RQs again in SAV... are you blind, dumb or just plain stupid?

And yes, I am aware I will be banned, but this is just so crazy...
 
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-Alin-

Emperor
Well, I think it's time for me to say goodbye after 8 years from this clicker boring game, or limiting gameplay to 15-20 minutes/day just keeping this city alive.
Still thinking about my final decision.

SaV is a worst copy of SaaB with nice looking buildings, it's clear this game can't handle many more aditions to it, just copy paste with some polish on them to appear like "new".

No regrets playing it, it was fun, but now it isn't anymore.
 
SaV is a worst copy of SaaB with nice looking buildings, it's clear this game can't handle many more aditions to it, just copy paste with some polish on them to appear like "new".

No regrets playing it, it was fun, but now it isn't anymore.

You would think that new thing is new... but this just isn't... ctrl+c, ctrl+v SAAB with new graphics... and not only that... they could not even come up with new RQs... they just used those same ones... even with all problems... I am not going to type anymore otherwise I would be VERY RUDE... laziness at its finest...
 
After hitting the cap in only 38 minutes today I filed a support ticket complaining, and I got a response from support saying that they would like to emphasize that being able to abort more than the current limit on a daily basis was not originally intended by game design.

I find this to be completely disingenuous when the Progressive era was introduced in July 2013, almost 8 years ago, and the Heavy Questing strategy has been around almost as long. And I really don't being patronized like that, indicating that it took them this long to "fix" a game mechanic.

I'm also getting really tired of having to scream about every change lately in order to get things fixed properly by the designers, or simply rolled back. It seems like it has been one constant thing after another lately. If no one complained and got all of these recent updates reversed, this game would be much different right now, and not in a good way. Flying Noob Trap and Chateau nerf are only the latest in a series.
 
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Big Baloney

Farmer
my thoughts
now they must limit the Arc
the best players on a server make 10k+ profit a day

and limit fighting to 200 fights a day
yeah they just get into the R.I.P. section, so just close it for good, if they nerve the ARC with ppl work for 5 years to get it to 180 then yeah I want to get my popcorn and just enjoy this and other forums lol let it come, I just here for fun, but I am done with spending my money in this game anymore, but yeah also just prohibit the match fixing in GBG then you have a great point lol, oh no, thats a diamonds farm for Inno games lol
 

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
After hitting the cap in only 38 minutes today I filed a support ticket complaining, and I got a response from support saying that they would like to emphasize that being able to abort more than the current limit on a daily basis was not originally intended by game design.

I find this to be completely disingenuous when the Progressive era was introduced in July 2013, almost 8 years ago, and the Heavy Questing strategy has been around almost as long, and is even explained in the official InnoGames wiki. And I really don't being patronized like that, indicating that it took them this long to "fix" a game mechanic.

I'm also getting really tired of having to scream about every change lately in order to get things fixed properly by the designers, or simply rolled back. It seems like it has been one constant thing after another lately. If no one complained and got all of these recent updates reversed, this game would be much different right now, and not in a good way. Flying Noob Trap and Chateau nerf are only the latest in a series.

They do seem to have communication issues of late.

Massive amounts of quests (and aborts) have indeed been around for forever (even pre-dating CF with huts & slinger quests in bronze age). It's always been something I kinda went "you can't be serious about letting this exist!?" but it continued to.

Other things have caught up in terms of pouring your effort into the game such as GBG rewards. But now they seem to finally be concerned by it.

If the company line is that "it was never supposed to exist", that's concerning as it's more or less a bald-faced lie. They can of course hide behind their volunteer support staff and disown the position if it turns out to be untenable :p

I'm fine that they want to change it. I'm fine with the limit. But I do agree they should at least be forthright about why they're doing things.

"We feel this is a harmful mechanic that has existed in the game for too long and has recently started to be exploited by automation scripts, so we're setting a reasonable limit to it" would be a perfectly fair statement. It's not like questing becomes unworthwhile under the abort limit.

Stealth-changing things, first with a delay that was "intentional and not a bug" and then "oops, yes, it was a bug, we just meant to add a limit" and then finally with another update without a patchnote to implement the actual limit that was supposedly what caused the delay in the first place... Leaves a bad taste.

It's reminiscent to me of when they went to add the road to victory to GBG rewards and classed it as an improvement - except at the time it had a place in the random reward table and was a nerf. It might've been a well deserved, if poorly thought out, nerf, but selling it as an improvement caused a riot. They walked it back, just tacked it on as a worthless extra prize to the season-end rewards, and nothing changed.
 

CrashBoom

Legend
if they nerve the ARC with ppl work for 5 years to get it to 180
I worked almost 9 years (I started end of April 2012 FoE) to get my Chateau to currently 176

and they nerved that :mad:

and even if they only limit the Arc to 1800 FP profit a day at level 180 it would still be 10 times better than the 2nd best FP GBs at the same level (Cape, AO)
(or lets simply take 2000 because they like that number)
 
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