Feedback Space Age Venus (SAV)

[MooingCat]

I don't know that I'd say it's a great unit. Granted I can't actually test them til they hit live, but the Energy Cannon already seemed better to me.

Power Shot is somewhat overrated imo - though they did add some of the few reasons for it to exist to this age (reactive armor, stealth, flying).

With the reactive armor only being 4 though, a high AO & Keen Eye can overcome that well enough with any unit. Furthermore with low base attack against a high base defense and with a bunch of boost in the picture, it might not hit for more than 4 very often anyways.

The stealth unit may not be able to make it to a tile it can hide on having the lowest initiative in the age.

Flying normally only matters to the artillery anyways - so in that sense, it just makes the fast unit flying-in-name-only for the age. But since the fast unit still moves first it should still win the matchup.

---

In terms of the nerf, it's disappointing - doesn't change my evaluation of the age that much - still likely a boring but safe combat age where at low-medium attrition any unit can beat any unit. Medium-high attrition is a bit sketchier unless you have a focus on defense over attack since the units mostly skew that way.

Playing with the damage calculator it seems at the sort of attrition that I actually worry about how things work, this nerf took PD vs SF damage from 3-5 to 2-5. So not the end of the world. They were already going to be reliant on crits/keen eye procs and range to win those fights.

I've been able to test, and the power dragon is a much better over all unit than the energy cannon. I didn't expect it to be, but the power dragon really surprised me. The energy cannon is like the sentinel, can beat all defenses but takes some damage, and because the other units are better compared to SAM the energy cannon takes more damage than the sentinels did vs SAM units. I can fight most GBG combos with power dragons taking very little damage, with 1 or 2 fights that are a bit tougher, but still very possible until very high attrition (4 ranged + 4 fast, for example).

I do have high attack boosts, but I was able to do all but 1 GE encounter with 1 power dragon + 7 rogues (couldn't beat 8 fast + 7 heavy, 1 ranged), only losing 2 power dragons on the way. I have no doubt I could beat all with 8 energy cannons as well, but would definitely have had more losses

 

[xivarmy]

I've been able to test, and the power dragon is a much better over all unit than the energy cannon. I didn't expect it to be, but the power dragon really surprised me. The energy cannon is like the sentinel, can beat all defenses but takes some damage, and because the other units are better compared to SAM the energy cannon takes more damage than the sentinels did vs SAM units. I can fight most GBG combos with power dragons taking very little damage, with 1 or 2 fights that are a bit tougher, but still very possible until very high attrition (4 ranged + 4 fast, for example).

I do have high attack boosts, but I was able to do all but 1 GE encounter with 1 power dragon + 7 rogues (couldn't beat 8 fast + 7 heavy, 1 ranged), only losing 2 power dragons on the way. I have no doubt I could beat all with 8 energy cannons as well, but would definitely have had more losses

Yea, what beats GE isn't really my concern - it's certainly possible to just outboost GE (and it sounds like you do).

I think power dragons + rogues is likely to be very appealing for easy fights (which is likely what GE is for you).

But what keeps winning when other things can't is what interests me most - and i suspect energy cannons will be at the top of the pile there for typical players boosts where attacking defense is not way ahead of attacking attack. Observer Drones have me curious as well because they actually have the highest attack in age.

 

[Zuckerberg the Horrid]

if that was an April fools day joke, I'll be livid... waiting for deets

 

[-Alin-]

Maybe it’s effect of April Fools Day

April fools day is everyday from InnoGames, they have everytime bad jokes for us.

And hopefully both changes for PowerDragon and FI are only a joke(this time), I got only garbage since yesterday from Shards, I really do not need mass aid kit and supplies 2 times in a row and again 2 times blueprints ...

 

[vdumitrescu20]

is SAV an improvement in GBG?
can higher attrition can be reached at same bonuses, compared to SAB?

 

[-Alin-]

is SAV an improvement in GBG?
can higher attrition can be reached at same bonuses, compared to SAB?

Yes and no, in SaaB you had to fight with nailstorms and that was all, here you have 2 possibilities, with 2-3 powerdragons(which were nerfed yesterday) and rogues or 8 energy cannons like you used to fight in SaM with sentinels.
New units being stronger its required a good ammount of attack/defense boost from your city to be able to reach 100-110 atrition only from auto like I used to do last year with Nailstorms.

I am on 1513/873 atm and I reached 90 atrition so far on auto fighting only with powedragons and rogues(this was before the change, now I will see how much I can still do), I never went higher than this, too many units lost, I am not used to fight with new units for the moment and this will require time to master/„tame” new units

 

[hus0123]

All SAV units (except same-age Champions) have Keen Eye skill (30%).
- Pre-nerf Power Dragon was the best SAV unit. So now, the Power Dragon's attack value is nerfed from 800 to 700, making them less useful unit. Due to their low damage, Power Dragon may not able to deal more than 4 damage vs Steel Fists.
- 8 Energy Cannons can be the most beating unit everyone rather than Power Dragons, because they have same range and speed as Sentinel, same attack value as Drill Ranger and double higher defense value than Sentinel. Energy Cannons can be the strongest and the best SAV units everyone (especially with super high scalling boost, activating AO and Keen Eye), even when fighting vs Steel Fists and Observer Drones, despite their bonuses vs fast units and the Steel Fist's reactive armor (max 4 damage) and Observer Drone's stealth on broken ground. 8 Energy Cannons can be the most beating unit in GE, but 8 power dragons are useful in GE encounter 60, 62, 63 and 64.
- The Ghost Blaster is so ok, but they have less useful movement speed due to their movement cost.
- The Observer Drone is the second-worst SAV unit (after same-age heavy units), because it has very low range which their range is same as IA archer; there's not simply enough broken ground and they have the lowest defense value of all SAV units as very well as the highest attack value. They also get murdered by same-age fast units before they can hide due to having the lowest initiative value of all SAV units.
- The Steel Fist is the worst SAV unit, because their range and speed are same as the Shredder; despite having reactive armor skill (max 4 damage), they can't reach Ghost Blasters in the time. It can be killed in 2 hits by Keen Eye or AO, or by Power Dragons.
- The SAV Champion is quite slow unit and can't reach any ranged/artillery units in the time.
Steel Fists, SAV Champions and Observer Drones are absolutely garbage SAV units.

SAV units are much better than SAAB units, because the most SAAB units are generally worthless and useless due to having no-range (Shredder, SAAB Champion, Hover Hammer and Drill Ranger). Nail Storms were only useful SAAB units and occasionally B.E.L.T. in last years.

The best 2 SAM units were Steel Wardens and Sentinels.

All light units in later ages are completely garbage, worthless and useless units.
Heavy units after SAM are completely garbage units.
Fast units in later ages with melee attacks (Drone Swarm, Warrior Monk and Hover Hammer) are absolutely garbage, useless and worthless units.

There are too many light units in later ages that have melee attacks, they absolutely made no sense ever (even with the Dragon Breath skill).

These melee units in later ages are absolutely useless units, but light units with the Dragon Breath ability don't eat retaliation and attack multiple units across the line.

The Drill Ranger is often known as the "Retarded Samurai" of the SAAB, while the Shredder is the Grenadier of the SAAB, the Nail Storm is the Anti-Materiel Sniper of the SAAB, the B.E.L.T. is the Plasma Artillery of the SAAB, and the Hover Hammer is the Drone Swarm of the SAAB.

 

[MageKnight]

Is anyone getting the rewards from PVP? I got my first one today, but nothing for being 1st last month?

 

[vdumitrescu20]

To bad
I was hoped that SAV units are better than nail storm.
Perhaps the fact that I have big attack an defence bonuses will help me in SAV GBG
Fortunately, the SAV era will bring me +78% attack power only thru renovation buckets

 

[mcbluefire]

Any news on the changes in the FI? If slightly for it was the same as the 12.5% "slight" nerf on attack for the dragon then it's probably only 12.5% better which means it's still completely worthless for the goods and FP required.

@lordwasa After everyone is back next week could the announcement article for SAV see an update on the FI but this time including the mysterious packs only as a line item in the rare packs with the new information? Hopefully the items I put line strikes through are gone and hopefully some of the amounts have been increased.

Common:

• 20 Forgepoints
• 25 random goods of your era
• 1 light unit
• 5 light units
• 1 ranged unit
• 5 ranged units
• 1 heavy unit
• 5 heavy units
• 1 artillery unit
• 5 artillery units
• 1 fast units
• 5 fast units
• 2 blueprints
• coins
• supplies

Uncommon:

• 100 forgepoints
• 200 random goods of your era
• 10 rogues
• 8 hour rush mass coins
• 6 hours rush mass supplies
• mass self aid kit

Rare:

• 5 blueprints
• medals
• one up kit
• renovation kit
• store building
• Mysterious shard
  • Vikings: 300 random goods of your age
  • Egyptians: 150 forgepoints
  • Japanese: 300 random goods of your age
  • Aztecs: 150 forgepoints

Honestly the name "mysterious shard" doesn't make any sense. Who opens a "shard" to find another shard? It might make more sense to call it a "Settlement Box". Really, though, the rewards are pitiful for those. Since it's the rarest of the rare shouldn't it at least be 200 FP and 500 goods? Even then I doubt it would be enough to get me to place the beautiful but inefficient GB.

 

[hus0123]

In SAAB we had two moderately useful ones (ranged and artillery), and three completely unacceptable ones (heavy, light, and fast).

In SAV we get one strong unit (fast), two moderately useful ones (artillery and ranged), and two mostly unacceptable ones (light and heavy).

Is a Power Dragon good or bad artillery unit after being nerfed?
I should say them that post-nerf Power Dragons are moderately good artillery units, especially paired with rogues for fighting in GBG and GE either, but they do have the lowest damage value so they are not worth for fighting against enemy units with very high attrition in GBG (for example, 1st wave 4 ranged + 4 fast; 2nd wave 2 ranged) and GE encounter 54 (1st wave 8 fast; 2nd wave 7 heavy + 1 ranged).

All artillery units before the Future Era have the lowest stats very well.

All units that have decreased attack value compared to previous units in different ages are Satellite Spotters (from 100 to 80 compared to the Anti-Materiel Snipers due to having Heat ability), Dragon Drones (from 120 to 110 compared to Exoskeleton Soldiers due to having Dragon Breath skill), Turturrets (from 180 to 170 compared to the Plasma Artillery due to having Mortar skill) and Power Dragons (from 750 to 700 compared to the B.E.L.T. due to having Power Shot skill without Recharge).

 

[MooingCat]

In SAAB we had two moderately useful ones (ranged and artillery), and three completely unacceptable ones (heavy, light, and fast).

In SAV we get one strong unit (fast), two moderately useful ones (artillery and ranged), and two mostly unacceptable ones (light and heavy).

Is a Power Dragon good or bad artillery unit after being nerfed?
I should say them that post-nerf Power Dragons are moderately good artillery units, especially paired with rogues for fighting in GBG and GE either, but they do have the lowest damage value so they are not worth for fighting against enemy units with very high attrition in GBG (for example, 1st wave 4 ranged + 4 fast; 2nd wave 2 ranged) and GE encounter 54 (1st wave 8 fast; 2nd wave 7 heavy + 1 ranged).

All artillery units before the Future Era have the lowest stats very well.

All units that have decreased attack value compared to previous units in different ages are Satellite Spotters (from 100 to 80 compared to the Anti-Materiel Snipers due to having Heat ability), Dragon Drones (from 120 to 110 compared to Exoskeleton Soldiers due to having Dragon Breath skill), Turturrets (from 180 to 170 compared to the Plasma Artillery due to having Mortar skill) and Power Dragons (from 750 to 700 compared to the B.E.L.T. due to having Power Shot skill without Recharge).

I would definitely still put the power dragon in the strong unit category, for most cases I still take fewer losses than with energy cannons. You pointed out the main weaknesses of the power dragon (lots of fast or ranged - it can handle up to 4-5 just fine), but except for those DAs it works much better than energy cannons for me.

 

[-Alin-]

In SAAB we had two moderately useful ones (ranged and artillery), and three completely unacceptable ones (heavy, light, and fast).

In SAV we get one strong unit (fast), two moderately useful ones (artillery and ranged), and two mostly unacceptable ones (light and heavy).

Is a Power Dragon good or bad artillery unit after being nerfed?
I should say them that post-nerf Power Dragons are moderately good artillery units, especially paired with rogues for fighting in GBG and GE either, but they do have the lowest damage value so they are not worth for fighting against enemy units with very high attrition in GBG (for example, 1st wave 4 ranged + 4 fast; 2nd wave 2 ranged) and GE encounter 54 (1st wave 8 fast; 2nd wave 7 heavy + 1 ranged).

All artillery units before the Future Era have the lowest stats very well.

All units that have decreased attack value compared to previous units in different ages are Satellite Spotters (from 100 to 80 compared to the Anti-Materiel Snipers due to having Heat ability), Dragon Drones (from 120 to 110 compared to Exoskeleton Soldiers due to having Dragon Breath skill), Turturrets (from 180 to 170 compared to the Plasma Artillery due to having Mortar skill) and Power Dragons (from 750 to 700 compared to the B.E.L.T. due to having Power Shot skill without Recharge).

Agreed with your units ranking BUT Power Dragon is still OP for SaV even with the reduced attack, energy cannons are weaker compared with them in long time fighting in GbG, higher the atrition is higher the lose for your energy cannons compared with the fights in which you are using 2-3 Power Dragons and rogues.
And heavy, short ranged(ghost blasters) and light are really useless.

 

[hus0123]

I would definitely still put the power dragon in the strong unit category, for most cases I still take fewer losses than with energy cannons. You pointed out the main weaknesses of the power dragon (lots of fast or ranged - it can handle up to 4-5 just fine), but except for those DAs it works much better than energy cannons for me.

Oh, yea. Power Dragons are strong units just like either Steel Wardens, Rocket Troops, Turturrets or Nail Storms. Energy Cannons are strong units just like Sentinels. Ghost Blasters are still moderately useful ones due to their Blast skill and movement cost. SAV light and heavy units are garbage and worthless.

Top of the lowest attack damage values of all same-age units are:
- artillery units from the Bronze Age to Tomorrow Era
- Satellite Spotter (FE ranged unit)
- Dragon Drone (AF light unit)
- Sub Cruiser and Nautilus (OF ranged units)
- Ronin Bot (VF heavy unit)
- Steel Warden and SAM Champion (SAM heavy units)
- Shredder (SAAB heavy unit)
- Power Dragon (SAV artillery unit).

Top of the lowest defense values of all same-age units are:
- artillery units from the Bronze Age to the Contemporary Era
- Anti-Materiel Sniper (TE ranged unit)
- Satellite Spotter (FE ranged unit)
- Recon Raider (AF fast unit)
- Gliders (OF fast units)
- Rocket Troop (VF artillery unit)
- Sniperbot (SAM artillery unit)
- B.E.L.T. (SAAB artillery unit)
- Observer Drone (SAV light unit).

All any artillery units are worthless and useless vs any flying units (except Power Dragons if you are said, especially paired with rogues). Only 2 artillery units that can shoot flying units are Rail Guns and Power Dragons due to their Power Shot skill. Flying is a defensive ability.

If you are said:

-the best SAV unit is the Power Dragon

-the second-best SAV unit is the Energy Cannon

-the worst SAV units are Steel Fist and SAV Champion

-the second-worst SAV unit is the Observer Drone.

 

[qaccy]

Ghost Blasters are still moderately useful ones due to their Blast skill and movement cost.

I only wish Ghost Blasters were useful. As I elaborated in my thoughts on the units, this thing moves as slowly as a Nail Storm (actually slightly worse) and has the shorter range of a Tesla. Combine this with its pretty high initiative and you get a unit that in most battles won't even be able to attack on the first turn because terrain prevents it. I'd argue that Nail Storms are actually better than them because of this significant weakness.

 

[Zuckerberg the Horrid]

still no details on the flying noob trap boost? are we still assuming it's an April fools day joke?

how about we get smart about this and stop talking about stupid units since we all know everyone's going to live with the unit changes, only talk about this GB until it's made proper. All this stuff about the units is just ruining our chances of being heard in a reasonable and responsible manner rather than ignored and deflected. #stopthetrap

 

[xivarmy]

still no details on the flying noob trap boost? are we still assuming it's an April fools day joke?

how about we get smart about this and stop talking about stupid units since we all know everyone's going to live with the unit changes, only talk about this GB until it's made proper. All this stuff about the units is just ruining our chances of being heard in a reasonable and responsible manner rather than ignored and deflected. #stopthetrap

Given that it's probably 1-2 weeks to live at this point I think it's safe to say everything that's not already in the pipeline for changes is going live as-is.

 

[Zuckerberg the Horrid]

Given that it's probably 1-2 weeks to live at this point I think it's safe to say everything that's not already in the pipeline for changes is going live as-is.

Given that it's probably 1-2 weeks to live at this point I think it's safe to say everything that's not already in the pipeline for changes is going live as-is.

go read the daily change log

 

[xivarmy]

go read the daily change log

I am familiar with what they announced last thursday. I'm saying unless there's other things they've already decided on, those are probably along the lines of final tweaks before it's headed live. It was one month from announcement til live for SAAB. Tomorrow's one month for SAV. I don't really expect it to stay on beta much longer.

It's too late for protests about anything to have further impact imo.

 

[Tahrakaiitoo]

It's too late for protests about anything to have further impact imo.

The protests about the GB have been here from the start and all we got as a sort of response was; there's no plans to change it.
So why does this part of the forum even exist?