Discussion Pay to Win?

[Publius Cornelius Scipio]

Players are leaving the game thinking, inno will reduce the paying amount or remove the pay concept in the events. It won't work like that.
Let's assume ABCD are players and each player contribute to make company get some amount doing purchase in the game.
A + B + C + D = 1000
Now, let say C player left the game, company might expect,
A + B + D = 1000
So, if non-spending players leaving the game doesn't affect anything, if any good spending players leaving the game might affect all spending players in the game and company may increase the pay value. To do the increasing, they will introduce something new in the game and states like following new policies from government regarding pay values.

I was a spending player, but decided to stop spend. So, INNO are loosing money.But there`s something else. When players are leaving. they do usualy leave negative comments and this is a bad publicity. Bad publicity reduce the incomes, so the things are not at all as you try to explain them.
And there`s something more - with the increasing greed INNO are pressing the players and nobody likes to be pressed to spend.
This is the reason why people like me decide to stop to spend. We love the game, but we aren`t idiots.
And when you pay real money and they always try to give more crapps than useful things you send them to hell.
I think, that the next "ineventions" will be a new platine and diamond event prise, but INNO don`t like to give you valuable things and they will fale.
Nowaday you need to spend some 200-300 Euro each event just to take somethig decent, but there are no expansions and what you`ll do the next event? Delete all you have just paid?
The policy of INNO is "take the money now and don`t care about the feature".
And I`m sure you know, that the game became less ineresting with every next upgrade and event.
This isn`t anymore a game, but a casino

 

[Publius Cornelius Scipio]

I am aware that this is the Beta Forum but you are not the Forum police and, once again, I am not telling anyone how to play. If you don't like what I have to say just ignore me.

No, you give orders to people to not comment the way you don`t like and that was your comment.
The same way you suggest me to ignore you, you could ignore the comments you don`t like and no one would write you answers like mine. And please don`t play the victime now, OK? When you say something to people, they have the right to pay you back with the same coin.
Respect the others and you`ll receive respect. Simple, right?

 

[Pericles the Lion]

No, you give orders to people to not comment the way you don`t like and that was your comment.
The same way you suggest me to ignore you, you could ignore the comments you don`t like and no one would write you answers like mine. And please don`t play the victime now, OK? When you say something to people, they have the right to pay you back with the same coin.
Respect the others and you`ll receive respect. Simple, right?

Please point to an example where I gave "orders to people" to not comment is a way that I don't like.

 

[Fire Witch]

It's a bad habit to look up a players ranking points etc. and judging if their opinion is valid based on that.
Just leave that out and make a good point in your argument instead.

 

[Publius Cornelius Scipio]

It's a bad habit to look up a players ranking points etc. and judging if their opinion is valid based on that.
Just leave that out and make a good point in your argument instead.

In life, as well here, people juge the achievments, right?
When you are looking for a financial advice you search someone

Please point to an example where I gave "orders to people" to not comment is a way that I don't like.

I`m very sorry! I thought that this was an answer from a guy, who did what I`m mentioning in the comment, but that`s not you and I wanto to excuse me for this comment.
For the argument, we were discussing, I stay on my position.

 

[Publius Cornelius Scipio]

It's a bad habit to look up a players ranking points etc. and judging if their opinion is valid based on that.
Just leave that out and make a good point in your argument instead.

It's a bad habit to look up a players ranking points etc. and judging if their opinion is valid based on that.
Just leave that out and make a good point in your argument instead.

In life, as well here, people juge the achievments, right?
When you are looking for a financial advice you search and trust someone who had good achievments, right.
And I say very clearly why I made my comment.
And, please, don`t start again to discriminate me.

 

[drakenridder]

I think, that the next "ineventions" will be a new platine and diamond event prise,

My bet is on even more variants of special upgrades. Naming schemes inspired by PvP arena leagues: copper, platinum, diamond and crystal. Expending on retroactively buffed event buildings and expending capitalising on new buildings. Perhaps eventually inventing one last special upgrade: ultimate upgrade. Either an upgrade to top off crystal or exclusive to top1% or cash passes to instantly upgrade a base event building to crystal.

Either way, even though the game still isn't truly P2W, the events surely starts to feel like it. With the win conditions like: top1% league, calendar completion, cash passes, etc. Only paying encouragements I've actually appreciate so far was the 1-time 5% weaker lvl1 spawner and the invention of retroactively making old event buildings decent with special upgrades.

 

[Demeter7]

Either way, even though the game still isn't truly P2W, the events surely starts to feel like it.

GBG is now pay to win. Build the most buildings and use diamonds to finish them fast to max the VP boosts - that is the way to win GBG now.

 

[Leonidas af Danmark]

I will stop soon and then all this will be in the past for me.
I therefore wrote my post here, to influence Inno, not for myself, but for the remaining players.
There was a player who wrote back to ME that Inno had done something similar 10-11 years ago.
Back then the game was called "Tribal War 2". It was suddenly changed fundamentally and it became possible to buy a strong but ecpensive army. Inno continued this development and it became more and more important to spend a lot of money on the game. Eventually there weren't that many players left and the game closed.
It is not my own experience, just a message from one of my friends, but one can fear that something similar is about to happen with FoE.

 

[drakenridder]

GBG is now pay to win. Build the most buildings and use diamonds to finish them fast to max the VP boosts - that is the way to win GBG now.

My entire guild is f2p. We took a victory w/o that. We wouldn't be able to, if it was P2W. GbG prior to the changes was like that too: build SC & drop diamonds to instantly complete them, get 0-low attrition fights, strike a deal with another guild who did the same and swap throughout the season.
Now 0 attrition fights are patched and LP + victories + VP determine the ranking it's all the sudden P2W. While in actuality it's just a war of attrition: opponents exhausting their resources fall behind, strong enough guilds can maintain their dominance, despite their treasure and military assets taking a hit.

 

[drakenridder]

I will stop soon and then all this will be in the past for me.
I therefore wrote my post here, to influence Inno, not for myself, but for the remaining players.
There was a player who wrote back to ME that Inno had done something similar 10-11 years ago.
Back then the game was called "Tribal War 2". It was suddenly changed fundamentally and it became possible to buy a strong but ecpensive army. Inno continued this development and it became more and more important to spend a lot of money on the game. Eventually there weren't that many players left and the game closed.
It is not my own experience, just a message from one of my friends, but one can fear that something similar is about to happen with FoE.

Honestly, I suspect something similar already is happening. Just a bit... softer with special upgrades, rigged RNG systems most notoriously calendars with a daily key spawning chance per board roughly 50%.
With Halloween23 we can't end up as f2p player with a maxed out grand prize and have to grind 1-2 months for the special upgrades. Eventually I suspect we're ending up with 7-8 special upgrades. Each representing a 1 month delay for anyone who didn't either purchased cash passes, spend enough on event currency to hit sufficient progress or hitting top1% league. Making it ever more important to spend to get instantly the most powerful and efficient buildings or fall behind the arms race of attrition tolerance.
Personally I think there might still be room for f2p players who don't mind the 7-8 month grinding for the maxed out building. While whales battling it out with their wallets to get instantly those buildings maxed out bypassing the 7-8 months waiting game. Not sure however if a balance like that will be reached or too many ppl will quit out of frustration before that time though. Cause lately I've observed quite a lot of ppl vocally leaving the game.

So, while for now GbG isn't actually P2W. Like I've described above earlier. I'm suspecting it might eventually hit that over a few years (optimistically speaking few years).

 

[Demeter7]

My entire guild is f2p. We took a victory w/o that. We wouldn't be able to, if it was P2W. GbG prior to the changes was like that too: build SC & drop diamonds to instantly complete them, get 0-low attrition fights, strike a deal with another guild who did the same and swap throughout the season.
Now 0 attrition fights are patched and LP + victories + VP determine the ranking it's all the sudden P2W. While in actuality it's just a war of attrition: opponents exhausting their resources fall behind, strong enough guilds can maintain their dominance, despite their treasure and military assets taking a hit.

The difference with the new GBG is that it is possible to boost VP with the buildings. And finishing the buildings right away with diamonds gives more boosts. That was not possible with Siege Camps. Your guild may not have tried to buy a win, but many are.

 

[drakenridder]

The difference with the new GBG is that it is possible to boost VP with the buildings. And finishing the buildings right away with diamonds gives more boosts. That was not possible with Siege Camps. Your guild may not have tried to buy a win, but many are.

It wasn't possible with SC to complete them instantly and getting no attrition on fights? Camps in HQ are worse than SC cause they're only giving 20% attrition vs SC's 0% given enough building slots. That wasn't P2W but instantly completing HQ camps and buffed 20% SC's are?

 

[Demeter7]

It wasn't possible with SC to complete them instantly and getting no attrition on fights? Camps in HQ are worse than SC cause they're only giving 20% attrition vs SC's 0% given enough building slots. That wasn't P2W but instantly completing HQ camps and buffed 20% SC's are?

The Siege Camps did not give VP boosts like the new buildings do. Winning is based on getting the most VP. That is a huge difference.

 

[drakenridder]

The Siege Camps did not give VP boosts like the new buildings do. Winning is based on getting the most VP. That is a huge difference.

With SC and swaps you would've gotten all the VP with a befriended guild. So, what's the difference?

 

[Outlaw Dread]

When I pay, it is for fun; ranking is meaningless to me. Inno obviously needs to make money to keep the game going, and this works out to a lot less a month than other entertainment I pay for, like that once-a-week premium coffee.

What is a bit fatiguing, however, is that there does not seem to be much creativity behind many of the changes: most new events don't earn a "oh wow, how fun!" reaction. I like to have a pretty high fun to tedium ratio if I'm going to spend time on an activity, let alone money. It would be nice if even once a year there is a hsitorical or similair one-off event that is just fun. A nice event building, not over-powered but decent. Winning would require no diamond spending, but instead reward good strategy, logic, and problem-solving skills.

right now there does not seem to be an obvious long-term game development strategy to many of the changes, other than ramping up revenue streams. For example, with the power creep of event buildings, I can't imagine spending much time now doing cultural settlements. Maybe there is some master plan to reinvigorate them (like they've now made having a defense useful again). Or, maybe settlements will just fade away like GvG from lack of dev's attention, until the number playing is small enough for Inno to risk dropping it.

Equally, why spend real money on diamonds to get two event buildings, when I know they'll be outdated in a year or so. Might as well just get one for free, slowly let it upgrade via fragments to some super "gold" level, and then replace it in a couple of years. I win enough GBG and GE to help out the guild, and that's enough for an increasingly causal player.

For now I am enjoying FoE more than not, but I do play a bit less often and for shorter times.

 

[Sl8yer]

It has become much more expensive to play FoE, and the game has changed, making it necessary to buy many diamonds to reach the top. Since I don't want to win by purchasing my victories, I have chosen to stop playing FoE.

It has not become more expensive at all. It is still 100% free to play. You can play perfectly well without reaching the top. The top means absolutely nothing. If the top is that important to you, you should stop, cause it is no longer a game, but an obsession. Your message is proof for that. As is anyone cares if a player on a Danish server stops playing. Let me try. Oh ,please do not stop. We will very much miss you here! Does that sound genuine top you?

You have 533 ranking points, no guild and 3 battles and you teach players what to do?
What are we talking about?

​

You tell us. Leonidas has 255 pointsm no guild and no won battles, but him we need to take serious?

Thats right. It is a massage to Inno. Perhaps you dont agree, but many players do.

Total crap. A message to Inno you could also have put on the forum of the server you play on, or in the Support system of that server.

 

[Charles el Britannia]

I do not agree with the OP at all. The game is perfectly playable and enjoyable without you being "at the top". It's a bad habit to desperately try to cling on to some high position on the server as if it controls your fun in the game. I couldn't give a damn about my ranking position serverwide. I know I am probably the strongest player of my era and I can fight to extreme attrition. That's enough for me. So what if another player one day surpasses me by paying for tons of premium buildings. I don't compare myself with whales, only with other free players.

You emit a sense of entitlement to your high position. The game changed (and for the better because it was getting stale) and with the new meta your city is no longer top dog. Yes, your winner plaza's are now crappy buildings. But just play the events and you could have collected a dozen towers of whispering horrors and even more sparkstorm towers. See it as a mission to redo your entire base. A giant field of winner plaza's and sentinels was boring af anyway.

 

[Dessire]

The whole topic is so wrooong! The game is not pay to win, is pay to fast, you can be top 1 without paying a single diamond and what you can do to achieve that is just have a lot of patience like all players with more than 5 years in this game.

Please somebody delete this topic cause it just shows a lot of fake information :/

 

[CrashBoom]

you can be top 1 without paying a single diamond

no you can't