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Discussion Pay to Win?

Dear friends
It has become much more expensive to play FoE, and the game has changed, making it necessary to buy many diamonds to reach the top. Since I don't want to win by purchasing my victories, I have chosen to stop playing FoE.
The only thing that can counteract this development is if many players talk about it in their clan, on GC, and in messages to support. If you agree, you have my permission to copy this entire post on your forum, transfer it to other servers, and translate it using Google to share it with clans in other countries. If you choose to share this post, you can, of course, add a personal comment, as long as my farewell letter to Elves and this brief introduction remain unchanged and are shared in their entirety.
Hopefully, it will influence Innos' initiatives, so playing FoE doesn't become even more expensive for the remaining players in the future.

Thank you for the battles.
Dear Elver,
Inno has made so many changes that being a good and dedicated player is no longer enough. Now it's essential to spend many diamonds in the event if one wishes to reach the top. Therefore, I have decided to completely stop playing FoE before the beginning of the next KS. Fortunately, many of Elves players have become stronger, and new good players have joined. I am no longer as essential to the clan as before, so it's a good time for me to stop now.

I have truly enjoyed playing in Elves. It's the wonderful people gathered here that have kept me from quitting much earlier. Thank you for allowing me to get to know you. I will remember what each of you has said to me for a long time to come. ❤️
FoE has also been an interesting microcosm for me, reflecting many real-life issues. It's been fascinating to observe how the interaction between clans and players (myself included) has evolved and how I have been able to influence the development with my gameplay, words, and thoughts, both for the worse and for the better.

Inno's new course began with the introduction of KE5. Suddenly, there was a need for many blue percentages, and the quickest way to acquire them was by using diamonds in the event. This made KE individualized, and the battle between clans in KE ceased.

Inno's next major move was to change KS. For me, it meant a 50%+ reduction in my battles on the small map and a 60%+ reduction in the number of battles on the large map. It's a drastic reduction that almost entirely eliminated the advantage I had gained through my good and dedicated play in the 2 years and 5 months I've played FoE.
Looking at the number of battles in the last two KS, the same few players who have reduced their number of battles are still at the forefront. However, they are now leading by no more than 10-20% over the large middle group with relatively unchanged battle numbers. Thus, a top player can no longer make a decisive difference for the clan or create a faster development for themselves.
Additionally, the price to level up BLs has increased, and the number of free diamonds has decreased. This is a particular problem regarding negotiations, as many negotiations are now the only way a player can stand out.
It seems that the total number of battles for the entire clan has increased slightly, but only slightly. Thus, the players who have gained more battles are the least committed players, who have gained more battles at the expense of the few most dedicated players.
I've noticed that Inno might be open to adjusting erosion on the blue sectors in their explanation. By balancing this, the strongest players can get a little more out of their strength and their great efforts.
It's great, however, that there are now more battles on the map, allowing even the weakest to get more battles than usual. There is also a more intense battle between the clans in KS, and I'm, of course, glad about that.

Nevertheless, a minor reduction in erosion on blue sectors doesn't save FoE, from my perspective. Previously, the new buildings have generally been a bit better than the old ones, but that's no longer the case. The new buildings introduced are 2-3 times stronger than the old ones. Therefore, if one wishes to be at the top, the old buildings are worthless. My enormous effort over several years to build a strong city has been wasted.
You can only acquire many of the new buildings by spending many diamonds in the event. Because the difference between the new and old buildings is so significant, it's completely necessary if one wants to be at the top. Before, I could keep players with a diamond budget of 30-40 EUR/month behind me just by playing well. I can't do that anymore. In the last two months, some diamond players have increased their attack and defence by almost 1,000%.

Personally, I don't mind spending money on a game I spend a lot of time on. When I played LoL with my son, I bought the best skins for all the champs we played, both for him and for myself. It was quite expensive, but my son was happy with the gifts, and the game looked better. However, it didn't change our strength in the game. When we played, it was still our gaming skills that mattered.

Unfortunately, that's no longer the case for FoE. In FoE, the player who spends the most money on diamonds becomes the strongest. You can no longer play yourself to become strong. There's not much fun in that. In my world, there's no game left.
I don't want to win because I have money to pay for it. I want to win because I'm dedicated and excellent. That's why I don't buy diamonds in FoE. I have the money for it, but I wouldn't be able to enjoy my position and victories if I win just by purchasing some advantages. Therefore, in terms of gameplay, FoE is now dead to me. There's nothing left, and since Inno can't delete the new buildings they introduced, they can't restore a reasonable balance within a reasonable time.

It's Inno who owns the game. They can do whatever they want with it, and like any other company, they naturally try to optimize their earnings. By making success in the game entirely dependent on the price to play, they might have shot themselves in the foot, but it's also possible that many players are so dependent on the game that they are willing to pay the extra costs. If that's the case, Inno's decisions are reasonable from a business standpoint.
Inno is, of course, fully aware of this. To improve conditions for the remaining players, it's important for you to discuss the development, and occasionally, players like me leaving the game and slamming the door will help keep the price of playing down. For your sake, I therefor encourage you to share this post with other clans on multiple servers and discuss it on the forum.

To be, or not to be a cash cow, that is the question. I'm not trying to lecture you about anything, even though I'd like to help improve the situation for all FoE players if I can. However, I'm ultimately quitting because the game has become so indifferent and uninteresting to me that I can end my time in Elves with a positive and optimistic Muu uuuhh.

Good luck to everyone and thank you for giving me the opportunity to get to know you. It has been an exquisite pleasure. ❤️

Leonidas of Danmark
Elves, B server, Denmark
 
Sorry, I do not agree with your opening sentence. It is not necessary to spend money on the game in order to build a city to where it is one of the top 100 on any world. I'm F2P and have a top 50 city on my main world. If your goal is to be the #1 player then you are competing with players that are able, and willing, to spend more money on the game than you are. INNO is not to blame for this. In-game purchases are how INNO keeps the lights on. As long as there are in-game purchases there will be players that are able to outspend other players. Fact of life.
 

ArklurBeta

Baronet
I have mixed feelings about people making such a fuss about leaving the game because the game doesn't work (anymore) as they want. You play on the Denmark server and create an account on Beta just to post this? I might even agree that yes, the game is more P2W if you are reaching to be the top player, but...that was always the case. That's the nature of the game, that's how Inno gets money.

The game can be still be very much playable and enjoyable IF your goal isn't to be the "#1" player on the server and share screenshots of your city with (at this point) 10k+ attack boost combined (for AA and DA) or whatnot or how your SAT GBs are already at lvl60-70-80. You really don't need to spend at all that much to be a strong player, even 0, though of course it takes more time. Spend a few bucks monthly and it speeds up a lot, but still not costing your house doing so.

And again, not defending Inno and how the game "suggests" to spend more money on the game, but being a "martyr" about it just isn't the right way to raise your voice, for me, it does the "opposite" of what you try to achieve here.
 

angelgail

Baronet
im just have to let foe plus go cant buy diamonds an keep it to an need the diamonds to help the guild so they win
 
Sorry, I do not agree with your opening sentence. It is not necessary to spend money on the game in order to build a city to where it is one of the top 100 on any world. I'm F2P and have a top 50 city on my main world. If your goal is to be the #1 player then you are competing with players that are able, and willing, to spend more money on the game than you are. INNO is not to blame for this. In-game purchases are how INNO keeps the lights on. As long as there are in-game purchases there will be players that are able to outspend other players. Fact of life.
You have 533 ranking points, no guild and 3 battles and you teach players what to do?
What are we talking about?
 
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Look at US19 dude. My beta city has been inactive for years. I'm not "teaching" anyone what to do. Just telling it like it is.
You comment here in Beta, OK?
Here is another server and another reality.
Beta is a testing area and if you are not active in, than I don`t think you have so much experience to explain how people should play.
It is not personal. Maybe you`re a wonderful person, but it the last years I saw a lot of people like you coming and make comments and than all the community had to suffer. An exemple is the mindless action with the GBG nerfs. INNO didn`t introduced them on the live servers, but we had to play this stupidity for several months.
 

ArklurBeta

Baronet
You comment here in Beta, OK?
Here is another server and another reality.
The topic discussed here has nothing to do with the differences on Beta or Live, in this case (how GBG works) there are no differences at all. Why someone couldn't comment about it just because he doesn't play on Beta? I also don't play, guess I also shouldn't comment? I can't see the logic there.
 

Atokirina

Squire
A previous post of mine about the P2W (feedback on the titan age)

It was a lot easier for F2P players to get the premium expansions by just playing actively.

But in the last 2 eras, they added so many expansions (and they aren't cheap either) that it takes a very long time to buy them as F2P, especially since they halved the diamond gains from guild expedition.

In all eras before "Space Age: Jupiter-Moon", it's manageable as F2P to buy them by saving up your diamonds. Since the 12 premium expansions and the diamond nerf in the guild expedition, that changed completely.

Forge of Empires used to be quite balanced in the past: everyone has limited space and in the long term, the gap between paying players and F2P players (if they both play actively) closes.

Now with the huge power creep in the last events and the high amount of expensive premium expansions and the diamond nerf, that gap is just expanding.

And I liked FoE so much because it was quite well-balanced, and now I see it deteriorating to squeeze extra money out of it, no matter the overall quality of this freemium game.

2-3 years ago you could still recommend FoE as one of the best browser/mobile games with F2P balance. As a F2P player, you could easily stay close to large whales. And easily be better than paying players if you played a little active and well. And if you freed up a little more time, you could make nice diamond farms to become a whale as a F2P player. For new players or players without farms, they have now made that very difficult due to the current circumstances:
• Wishing well nerf
• Huge power creep in events
• Much higher number of premium expansions last eras
• Fountains of youth nerf in guild expeditions
• Diamond nerf in guild expeditions

They're exhausting the cash cow until she drops dead.

And that while they use up almost all resources on their sad mobile games like Rise of Cultures.
 

FrejaSP

Viceroy
I believe the poster did want to sent a message to Inno. There can be very long from the players to the developers, when each country have their own support team, that do work as a filter, vs games with one global forum.
I personly belive the changes had been good for the game as whole, but there are some top players, who feel they god hurt very hard of this changes.
True, Leonidas af Danmark do not play Beta, he play on a danish server. That do not changes, this is how he feel about the changes.
 
You comment here in Beta, OK?
Here is another server and another reality.
Beta is a testing area and if you are not active in, than I don`t think you have so much experience to explain how people should play.
It is not personal. Maybe you`re a wonderful person, but it the last years I saw a lot of people like you coming and make comments and than all the community had to suffer. An exemple is the mindless action with the GBG nerfs. INNO didn`t introduced them on the live servers, but we had to play this stupidity for several months.
I am aware that this is the Beta Forum but you are not the Forum police and, once again, I am not telling anyone how to play. If you don't like what I have to say just ignore me.
 

angelgail

Baronet
i do play here but some things i have to wait till they go live to do them im in no guild here but my own an it just me an i like it that way
 

angelgail

Baronet
You comment here in Beta, OK?
Here is another server and another reality.
Beta is a testing area and if you are not active in, than I don`t think you have so much experience to explain how people should play.
It is not personal. Maybe you`re a wonderful person, but it the last years I saw a lot of people like you coming and make comments and than all the community had to suffer. An exemple is the mindless action with the GBG nerfs. INNO didn`t introduced them on the live servers, but we had to play this stupidity for several months.
also we get invited to join here every time they an anouncement made thank you
 

Emberguard

Emperor
I'm a diamond player and I don't pay to win

It’s the most logical way to spend: for enjoyment, not just to win

By definition of Win, if we’re basing it on ranking then only 1 Player per world could ever be declared the Winner anyway. So no point in spending just to reach the #1 spot unless you want to make it about the size of your wallet

Even if there were no spending options available only one person out of thousands per world would succeed. We just wouldn’t be able to blame paying if there were not payment option

Whereas if by “Win” we mean succeed in getting a city up and running you don’t need to spend for that. But you can if you wanted
 

SlytherinAttack

Viceroy
Baking Sudoku Master
Players are leaving the game thinking, inno will reduce the paying amount or remove the pay concept in the events. It won't work like that.
Let's assume ABCD are players and each player contribute to make company get some amount doing purchase in the game.
A + B + C + D = 1000
Now, let say C player left the game, company might expect,
A + B + D = 1000
So, if non-spending players leaving the game doesn't affect anything, if any good spending players leaving the game might affect all spending players in the game and company may increase the pay value. To do the increasing, they will introduce something new in the game and states like following new policies from government regarding pay values.
 

Boo...

Baronet
I don't agree with the protest.
I spend diamonds on purchasing land, speeding up construction on GBG, and very rarely on events. The main expense item is land.
Players leave the game not because of the costs, but because the game is no longer interesting to them.
I'm still interested. Sometimes it can be difficult, but interesting.
 
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