Feedback Guild Expedition Update

[Shalimar the Brave]

If you're a casual guild, sure. Most guilds of strong players will unlock it because at least some of them will want to do it. I *will* be unlocking it on at least a few servers on live - even if it releases as-is and effectively forces negotiation Yes I want that 28 day building that badly

I'll unlock it on my main as well regardless of how it is released, but it won't be a requirement for my guild members to complete unless there is pretty significant rebalancing.

 

[xivarmy]

I'll unlock it on my main as well regardless of how it is released, but it won't be a requirement for my guild members to complete unless there is pretty significant rebalancing.

I think that's a likely approach for a while even with rebalancing. My guilds are all "GE is unlocked, do what you like" anyways - but I think even with reasonable defense numbers, guilds will have to accept that that's not an option for most at release. And that 10k goods to negotiate if that number is accurate is too many for some of their members to handle every week.

The championship might actually get interesting to me in this light - as a race to 133.3 never interested me ; but which guild can do a higher % of GE5 could be. Though the reward for winning it is still crap

 

[The Gunman]

Sorry but GE lv5 is only for 1% of players worldwide.It would be better if you forgot about defense and stay at attacking %. Double the % of the opponent we have to deal with,but let us play with attacking %. If this stays I'm not changing my entire city,which is build up for attack to GBG and GVG,for a building with 80% attacking.Not even defense.You give attack % again. hahaha Think again.

 

[Publius Cornelius Scipio]

At the heart of every product development is a target group.
In this case, it is inexplicable to me what and which is the group in question.
In developing a new product, it is imperative that marketing and psychology specialists are on the team so that the target group identified can be covered.
It is strange to create a product for its own sake and without taking into consideration the reactions that might arise.
I have been observing this inexplicable process for four years now.
I have noticed a tendency to impose rather than dialogue, to try to force certain decisions, which is outside the context of good commercial practice.
There was a similar attitude towards consumers in the Eastern bloc countries, where the state was an outright monopolist and you had no choice in the matter, but here, in a free and democratic world, it sounds more than a little strange.
It is as if there is some undeclared unspoken war with the players.
Why this is, I have no answer.
Fundamentally, many of us give of our personal resources, and when there is a financial relationship between two parties, they inevitably become a provider of goods and services and a consumer. In fact, paying a certain amount for a certain service is effectively a commercial contract.
Turning to good commercial practice, the consumer should have rights as such and the opportunity to determine the direction of the product.
There is no such thing here.
We cannot communicate with the people who actually take decisions, because they are hidden.
Lots of questions and no answers.

 

[Astrid]

The more I think about it, the more I start to feel that this is some kind of marketing trick.

Come up with something outrageous / shocking, make the community boil over it in the forums, discord, whatever and then come and slash those ridiculous army stats in half or even more and paint yourself as a game developer who actually listens to his community.

 

[MJ Artisan of War]

The more I think about it, the more I start to feel that this is some kind of marketing trick.

Come up with something outrageous / shocking, make the community boil over it in the forums, discord, whatever and then come and slash those ridiculous army stats in half or even more and paint yourself as a game developer who actually listens to his community.

Hope doth spring eternal...

 

[Arwaren]

10% chance to get Expedition portrait? This is a joke, right? Difficulty increased, and are we supposed to get portraits? Why not 10% chance to get Diamonds? What's wrong with you, InnoGames?

 

[XIA*]

So, hot take, I actually really like this. GE 5 should be extremely difficult and costly for us now. Why? Several reasons:

1. Most don't have tons of defense boosts in their cities. This promotes more city diversity and opens up new avenues for defense boosts to actually be desirable.
2. Making GE 5 so hard means that it won't be a feature that gets added and is immediately forgotten. To complete it, you will have to work really hard, or build your city around completing it!
3. This helps balance the rewards and makes it so that, once again, you have to work hard to get them instead of just immediately getting tons of fragments and buildings as soon as GE 5 starts.

Don't you see? GE 5 finally gives this game potential to start moving away from buildings that give only attack boosts. It gives traders more of a reason to produce goods. It makes the game so much less linear and introduces more potential ways to build your city. In fact, I would go so far as to say we need more features like GE 5 introduced over time that take advantage of defense boosts and goods more than they do now. It's healthy for the game to have a feature that doesn't cater to the current meta.

Now, should the final boost for the army in SAJM be 2569%? Probably not. The values themselves will have to be tweaked, but not too far. I think ~1500% in same would be fair, and a lot less for lower ages. But for the first time in a while, I actually feel positive about this feature. Inno could release the next event with a building that gives defense boosts and no attack boosts, and guess what? It would actually be a viable option.

tl; dr, the first feature I've been wholeheartedly excited for in a while. Good job Inno. You did it.

I don't think it's worth it to rebuild your city for defense just for GEV. and then struggle with GBG and even GEIV. makes no sense. and with the limited space, there is no way you can balance out both stats.

 

[XIA*]

Such a new player is likely not even to be invited into a guild that can open GE5 It's expensive for casual guilds! And non-casual guilds want all their players with treasury buildings for GBG. By the time you can get into a typical GBG/GE5 guild, you will not be a new player.

yeah the problem is you see, this will further divide guilds into "elite" and "meh". You won't have the chance to get into a good guild because of a few players who want to do GEV. but in any case, the guild will lose points even if the never open GEV.

 

[Dessire]

A better solution, please read:

- blue potions which gives you +50% of defense should give you 50% of your total defensive attack and defense. If you have 500% of defensive attack and defense, then this blue potion increases that number to 750%.

- Drink another one: it increases the number from 750% to 1125%

- The limit is up to 3 times. Drink another one: The number increases from 1125% to 1688%

- Activate the defensive bonus of the tabern, the 30% one. The number is increases from 1688% to 2192%

With this change, Innogames will finally give a better use to blue potions, a better use to the defensie bonus of the tabern and you will not need a lot of defensive buildings in the city.

You only need 500% + 3 blue potions + tabern bonus to have 2192%!!!
And if Innogames add to any of the new buildings production something like: 25% of chance to get 1 50% blue potions, you eventually will have enough to weekly do the level 5.

Innogames, please, do this change instead of decrease the % of attack and defende power of enemies.

I want a challenge, no free stuffs for an easy lvl 5 :/

 

[Dessire]

View attachment 9143
10% chance to get Expedition portrait? This is a joke, right? Difficulty increased, and are we supposed to get portraits? Why not 10% chance to get Diamonds? What's wrong with you, InnoGames?

After get all portraits, change that to diamonds? Or give 1 random portait whenever you complete the whole level 5.

 

[XIA*]

A better solution, please read:

- blue potions which gives you +50% of defense should give you 50% of your total defensive attack and defense. If you have 500% of defensive attack and defense, then this blue potion increases that number to 750%.

- Drink another one: it increases the number from 750% to 1125%

- The limit is up to 3 times. Drink another one: The number increases from 1125% to 1688%

- Activate the defensive bonus of the tabern, the 30% one. The number is increases from 1688% to 2192%

With this change, Innogames will finally give a better use to blue potions, a better use to the defensie bonus of the tabern and you will not need a lot of defensive buildings in the city.

You only need 500% + 3 blue potions + tabern bonus to have 2192%!!!
And if Innogames add to any of the new buildings production something like: 25% of chance to get 1 50% blue potions, you eventually will have enough to weekly do the level 5.

Innogames, please, do this change instead of decrease the % of attack and defende power of enemies.

I want a challenge, no free stuffs for an easy lvl 5 :/

who has 500% city defense? even very old players may only have around 200-300 "by accident". who's gonna throw out their attack buildings to build up defense ones?

 

[Dessire]

who has 500% city defense? even very old players may only have around 200-300 "by accident". who's gonna throw out their attack buildings to build up defense ones?

Have 500% of defense is not a lot of space compared to more than 1000% -.- specially if you include deal and basil.

 

[Devilsangel]

Here's a thought for inno developers responsible for GE. Build a city from scratch with building and space available ingame for free and/or with diamonds so that your city can go through lvl 4 GE on attack boosts and lvl 5 on defense boosts. Show us the city that can qualify for the stats you put up with this lvl5 to prove us wrong, if you can of course come up with a design that fits these parameters) and reasonable GB lvls, not 1000 lvl of basil, deal and TA))

 

[xivarmy]

yeah the problem is you see, this will further divide guilds into "elite" and "meh". You won't have the chance to get into a good guild because of a few players who want to do GEV. but in any case, the guild will lose points even if the never open GEV.

They won't lose points... they'll just fail to gain them... and the points we're talking about are nigh-worthless guild level crowns

And that divide is pretty well established already. Certainly a problem for inno to look into. But GBG causes it more than GE5 ever will because of its ornerous demand on the treasury. 1 low level Arc, or spare productions off event buildings can cover many people's GE unlock costs. And there's many guilds that don't care if you finish it that unlock it all. Just not the absolute bottom rung.

The way many people play GBG requires everyone to have a high level Arc, Observatory, and possibly an additional treasury GB. Because one person in an era with insufficient treasury production handicaps the whole guild in terms of construction.

 

[-Alin-]

I got one portrait already, next week I can do a rush again untill I get to the same point and see IF the portrait was removed or something else is alogside the fragments of that encounter, maybe are diamonds, You never know

 

[Kronan]

But it will only help for one or two maybe three GE level 5 seasons and you would have burned through all of it it took me a year to build up 256 units and I burned up 89 oft them to get through Level 5 hence a false economy

Those are horrific use numbers, and it's insane. You're absolutely correct (also to @xivarmy point as well..) - it clearly demonstrates the fact it's NOT a long term strategy by ANY means, especially at the sizes of the flasks we're currently playing with.

I just wanted to call out a few things in case people didn't know:

1) BLUE FLASKS stack, Orange do not.

2) It can get you out of a small jam sometimes if you're playing, but takes pristine management and careful use (not abuse). It's not a long-term strategy or solution, but can be a short term one if prudently moderated for emergencies.

3) They have a new sense of "rejeuvenated" value for a potential and judicious use - so don't keep selling them, save them in case they can help you

4) As @xivarmy accurately pointed out - it won't help the CITY DEFENSE ATTACK side, so all the stopping power in the world won't help you kill the thing beating on you. You need city ATTACK (BLUE SWORD) for that.

 

[SnowyNinja]

I don't see why people are complaining about the difficulty it's supposed to be harder than level 4 as level 4 is already hard until you advance far enough into the game, however, I do think the rewards aren't that good as of now except for the Forgotten Temple. I don't know maybe the portraits will get replaced with diamonds but for now not so good.

 

[xivarmy]

I don't see why people are complaining about the difficulty it's supposed to be harder than level 4 as level 4 is already hard until you advance far enough into the game, however, I do think the rewards aren't that good as of now except for the Forgotten Temple. I don't know maybe the portraits will get replaced with diamonds but for now not so good.

Some amount of critique of the difficulty is warranted - not because we can't do it *now* - that's fine - but whether we view it as a challenge that's reasonably desirable to approach over time.

i.e. I could throw together a theoretical layout for a SAJM city that can handle GBG by fighting as-is, without consumables or fortifications. I'm not sure how many years it'd take me to get there, and I consider it worse than the alternative of negotiating. But "it's impossible!!!?!" doesn't fly - we have more than enough power to divert some of our city to defense and still be perfectly serviceable in other regards (I have a SAJM city that uses a bit under half its space on wells/fountains and autos GE4 fine ; and a plan to make another that uses a bit *over* half its space on wells/fountains - using that space on watchfires and tactician towers instead of wells would be enough).

The issue is that I wouldn't even *consider* building that as-is. It would take *far* less sacrifice (quite possibly none because a lot of good attack event buildings also give nice amounts of goods) to make a city capable of negotiating the whole thing. The only "no-sacrifices-made" layout right now for fighting it is tiled phantom towers I think

 

[Felair]

Okay so fighting is out of the question as an end of age player on my main non beta world(120/233 bonus at the moment), unless I invest quite some space and/or FP (if I build def GBs). Which does not seem worth it at all.

+20% Forge Point Collection of the main prize does not apply to GB's or the town hall and I assume the castle. So that leave me with an 20% extra on top my +/- 483 FP(without random factors and BG) so minimum 97 FP per day which is not bad but nowhere near comparable to what GBG brings to the table when I'm active.

The good's cost is also quite extreme, with tavern bonus enabled and the occasional 10 diamonds for an extra negotiation attempt seems somewhat manageable. But with my current level of play this is not doable(play to little for now) so unsure of what i will do yet.
However this will be even more of a pain in ass when a new age arrives, basically not doable for at least a few weeks or so (depending on launch date) so that means worst case several weeks of downtime on this 20% extra FP if I understand it correctly.

The new "permanent" buildings seem quite good though, hopefully the portraits will be gone from the pool once won so there is a steady income of fragments.

I understand the devs want to do something about the worthless defense bonuses but i don't think this is the way, the scale is beyond any reason with how it is at the moment. So i will keep ignoring the stat.

What's especially sad in my opinion is how for lower age people the good cost will be unmanageable even with help from higher level players goods will become an issue quite rapidly and drive up prices fast I imagine.
(Like i ignore the PVP Arena with all the npc enemies on the top spot, I sometimes forget this still exists until someone mentions it on a topic somewhere but I've disabled it for close to two years already).