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Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

Owl II

Emperor
GvG's problems run deep. I would not expect any change in GvG activity from GBG nerfs:

- no reward at all other than ranking points (individual and guild)
- one specific time of day that rules the entire feature - if you can make it great. if not, you're not really competing (you might be able to ghost still).
- no scalability in defenses - it's basically like fighting at < 20 attrition without the point ;) Nothing but races.
- no accessibility for mobile players

More or less GvG has been ignored by the vast majority for longer than GBG has existed.
Alas, this is true. Half of the players who are upset with the GBG nerf would not have noticed it if the GvG was playable
 

King Flush

Marquis
At least you can understand that not all guilds have the same experience as you, so not everyone can love/hate ke nerf like you.


There is bad faith on your part.
When you are unlimited in combat, the strategy is limited to typing faster at the right time.
On the other hand, when you have to pay more attention to your attrition, you have to make certain choices in the sectors to type and manage to mobilize more people within the guild.

I've been in guilds of 80 where a dozen big players were enough to take the whole map, even against a guild of 20 players where everyone participated according to their abilities.
This too will be a game-changer for fights with attrition.

I'm not trying to convert you, I just want you to understand that those who appreciate change are not just jealous, there are a lot of players who like real strategy and rewards to match their investment, without falling into the excess of which the complainers claim a certain normality.
like I said you'd make a conclusion from me saying no to the first question but regardless if I was going to be effected personally or whether my guild would be effected I don't think this is good for anybody, most of all it takes away from what a game should be, also you know.. there are players further down the food chain that have heart and determination they are just earlier in their FOE story these players are the ones that I feel most sorry for, they want to build a better city they want to be able to fight more they want to be able to put the effort in and climb the ladder but this will take away the speed in which they can progress, even if they are not strong enough yet to capitalise on it they have already been working towards it with the guidance of the wise old veterans telling them to 'get your attack buildings up' whilst it might not effect them too much right now they wanted to be able enjoy it in the future. only saving grace for these players is they can get out of the game without having wasted so much time on it that some of us have.

honestly I reread the second part of your response a number of times but couldn't work out what you meant, sorry.
 

Beta King

Viceroy
I respectfully disagree. I have a 1800/1100 stat and typically get in 6K-8K battle each season. Does this make me a "good fighter"? Perhaps. Honestly, I do not feel that I am being "punished" by this change. Why might you ask? Because I really don't think that massive zero attrition fighting was anticipated by the Devs and correcting this oversight is something that needs to be done. It's not "punishment", it just is what it is. What I do think is that this change is going to expose a lot of weak guilds that are masquerading as "Strong" guilds. Currently, in live, on opening day a cadre of players (15-20) with high A/D can capture enough sectors to set themselves up for a swap season with 1-3 other guilds. From that point, onward, the weakest players in that guild are able to fight, a lot, even though they have weak A/D%. Going forward, this will be much more difficult. Every bucket is going to sit on its own bottom, so to speak. Swaps, which were previously a piece of cake, will be much more difficult because guilds may find that they have insufficient effective fighters. Just my .02.
I agree that mediocre or worse players that are in strong guilds will no longer be able to ride on the coattails of the few strong fighters and when the leaders realize they cant afford to carry the weaker players they will be cut and forced to join weaker guilds. Finally we can agree that it will hurt the smaller weaker players and not just the big bad mean guys y'all want to chop off at the knees.
 
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King Flush

Marquis
Alas, this is true. Half of the players who are upset with the GBG nerf would not have noticed it if the GvG was playable
that's a shame as was thinking there might still be an avenue of some fun after GBG is destroyed, I have heard people saying they really do enjoy it, so I guess it's obviously a matter of opinion, I shall have to give it a go anyway before I walk out the door.
 

Beta King

Viceroy
that's a shame as was thinking there might still be an avenue of some fun after GBG is destroyed, I have heard people saying they really do enjoy it, so I guess it's obviously a matter of opinion, I shall have to give it a go anyway before I walk out the door.
The problem is it cost a fair amount of goods so not just anyone in the guild can go to GVG and start laying sieges and taking sectors and if you are hoping to follow the leaders in you will have to log at 8 pm est every afternoon and fight for about 15 minutes until theres nothing left to do and if you are lucky you might get a persistent guild that keep laying seige and you get a half hour of fun but nothing like the time you can spend and fun you can have on GBG. If there were maps for the higher ages where most people have a surplus of goods that might make it more interesting but that conversation is for another thread. GVG will not be a replacement for GBG after the nerf in my opinion anyways.
 
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Owl II

Emperor
that's a shame as was thinking there might still be an avenue of some fun after GBG is destroyed, I have heard people saying they really do enjoy it, so I guess it's obviously a matter of opinion, I shall have to give it a go anyway before I walk out the door.
Everything in this world is a matter of opinion, or almost everything. As for the GvG, a lot of conditions need to be met to make it fun. But the main thing is the team. My opinion this could be the best part of the game if it weren't for clickers and bugs
 

King Flush

Marquis
Pericles the Lion said:
I respectfully disagree. I have a 1800/1100 stat and typically get in 6K-8K battle each season. Does this make me a "good fighter"? Perhaps. Honestly, I do not feel that I am being "punished" by this change. Why might you ask? Because I really don't think that massive zero attrition fighting was anticipated by the Devs and correcting this oversight is something that needs to be done. It's not "punishment", it just is what it is. What I do think is that this change is going to expose a lot of weak guilds that are masquerading as "Strong" guilds. Currently, in live, on opening day a cadre of players (15-20) with high A/D can capture enough sectors to set themselves up for a swap season with 1-3 other guilds. From that point, onward, the weakest players in that guild are able to fight, a lot, even though they have weak A/D%. Going forward, this will be much more difficult. Every bucket is going to sit on its own bottom, so to speak. Swaps, which were previously a piece of cake, will be much more difficult because guilds may find that they have insufficient effective fighters. Just my .02.

really you honestly don't think the way GBG is currently played was anticipated by the Devs! I don't given them an awful lot of credit generally speaking but sure they would have anticipated it playing out much the way it has, would seem obvious to me not because I've been playing it therefore I know but it's simple enough to predict, in any case I don't see anything wrong with the current model as far as player rewards go and call BS that there even is this 'massive zero attrition fighting' that you say there is, I've asked before but how many players are really abusing zero attrition fighting. IE they only fight zero attrition don't help on any of the other sectors and get huge amount of fights with no effort, give me a number as an average that you think fall into this category per world? I think like some others you may be grouping some players with high fight numbers into this category without understanding what they actually do to earn those fights, in my experience players that just take and don't give tend not to be welcomed very long in guilds so it tends to be self governed really. I say if there's a few that get away with it well, nevermind ay! does it matter?

I've also said before regarding the personal rewards point of view that on the whole I'd say it is pretty well balanced relating to other ways of gaining personal rewards, you make your choice do you fill your city with buildings that give you higher rewards when you collect or you build your city to instead get your rewards from GBG and obviously those that fall between the two extremities, maybe GBG has a slightly higher scope but then to achive the slightly higher rewards you have to invest more time, it's like a job and one that offers no paid holidays, can't play for whatever reason, tough you don't get any rewards that day/week/longer unlike those that can easily just collect a substantial amount from collecting their city resources.
Then there's sniping, potental there to earn vast amounts with very little effort or skill, then there's 1.9 Arc profiteering along with the vast amount of time I spend on GBG I do earn from taking 1.9 positions and get a bonus from my Arc, I invest about 40k a day and it gives me a nice healthy profit but my Arc isn't silly high, instead of upping other GB's to assist with fighting as I have always considered this more fun I could have had my Arc at 180 by now and if was to focus my time on Arc profiteering I could no doubt easily double the amount I invest a day, now 10% Arc bonus on 80k per day that makes GBG earnings look like chicken feed so I doubt very much that this nerf is down to the personal rewards players get from GBG as it just doesn't stack up as being a problem.
 

King Flush

Marquis
The problem is it cost a fair amount of goods so not just anyone in the guild can go to GVG and start laying sieges and taking sectors and if you are hoping to follow the leaders in you will have to log at 8 pm est every afternoon and fight for about 15 minutes until theres nothing left to do and if you are lucky you might get a persistent guild that keep laying seige and you get a half hour of fun but nothing like the time you can spend and fun you can have on GBG. If there were maps for the higher ages where most people have a surplus of goods that might make it more interesting but that conversation is for another thread. GVG will not be a replacement for GBG after the nerf in my opinion anyways.
just clutching at straws that there might be something left with some competition and fun to partake in.
 
really you honestly don't think the way GBG is currently played was anticipated by the Devs! I don't given them an awful lot of credit generally speaking but sure they would have anticipated it playing out much the way it has, would seem obvious to me not because I've been playing it therefore I know but it's simple enough to predict,
No, with GvG as their benchmark, I do not think that they anticipated the collaboration between guilds in GBG. It is an unintended consequence.
 

King Flush

Marquis
No, with GvG as their benchmark, I do not think that they anticipated the collaboration between guilds in GBG. It is an unintended consequence.
but why for is this a problem? honestly it doesn't make a vast difference if there are two strong guilds battling it out FFA guild 1 takes majority of sectors then guild 2 waits for timers then they take most of sectors, still a similar amount is flipped between the two guilds as doing swaps so what's your problem?
 

DEADP00L

Emperor
Perk Creator
but why for is this a problem? honestly it doesn't make a vast difference if there are two strong guilds battling it out
Precisely there would be no problem if the map was not composed of only 2 strong guilds.
But many hypocrites here do not want to recognize it and even less this solution.
I'm sure you're enjoying 2 strong guilds swapping sectors while 6 suffer and can't do anything.
Whereas if the map brought together the 8 strongest guilds, you would not make as many gains and you would complain in turn.
I don't know why Inno nerfed the camps but I still think that if you had been less obtuse with small guilds who never asked to be with professional guilds you would continue to stuff yourself and Inno wouldn't have nothing done.
 

Yekk

Regent
You responded to me but it was to @MrBrister that this should have been directed. It was his suggestion that 2 powerful guilds trap ring 3 so that "all is right in the world".
I know and agreed with MrBrisker... This was aimed at you completely. You may notice it was your post I quoted... He was right and you not so much. A small guild that oversteps its ability hurts everyone. Trapping serve a purpose
 

Yekk

Regent
No, with GvG as their benchmark, I do not think that they anticipated the collaboration between guilds in GBG. It is an unintended consequence.
Games always expect the players will come up with an innovative solution for something new. Humans are very ingenious. That said if it bust the direction developers wanted they quickly do a nerf.

WAS A NERF DONE 2 Plus YEARS AGO??? no... Inno accepted the situation. This (how GBG is on live) is not an exploit. Were there winners and losers? Of course there were as that always happens. You won for instance but now want to deny new players the same win...
 
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the GBG changes are a punishment not a help
 

King Flush

Marquis
Precisely there would be no problem if the map was not composed of only 2 strong guilds.
But many hypocrites here do not want to recognize it and even less this solution.
I'm sure you're enjoying 2 strong guilds swapping sectors while 6 suffer and can't do anything.
Whereas if the map brought together the 8 strongest guilds, you would not make as many gains and you would complain in turn.
I don't know why Inno nerfed the camps but I still think that if you had been less obtuse with small guilds who never asked to be with professional guilds you would continue to stuff yourself and Inno wouldn't have nothing done.
I still say in the scenario of there being 2 strong guilds that it's not the case that the other 6 can't do something, they tend to do a bit based on their desire to do so, some try some don't, but we do all seem to agree on the fact that the league structure is what needs changing, if the top guilds were put together I wouldn't complain, it would be hard work and could be us finding ourselves on the wrong side of an alliance you may end up with tag team battles who knows it would likely be tough going and less rewards but the rewards are secondary the competition is key.
 

Yekk

Regent
Precisely there would be no problem if the map was not composed of only 2 strong guilds.
But many hypocrites here do not want to recognize it and even less this solution.
I'm sure you're enjoying 2 strong guilds swapping sectors while 6 suffer and can't do anything.
Whereas if the map brought together the 8 strongest guilds, you would not make as many gains and you would complain in turn.
I don't know why Inno nerfed the camps but I still think that if you had been less obtuse with small guilds who never asked to be with professional guilds you would continue to stuff yourself and Inno wouldn't have nothing done.
It has been a year or more since 2 guilds owned a map on my world. The fix for that is not through attrition changes. They can still own a map if they are that strong. Diplomacy is how we reduced that problem as did changing the way guilds were put into a new league. Guilds are no longer put together by when they were created. Randomizing the pull for guilds gave weaker guilds a better chance to compete which then allowed them to get stronger. As they got stronger it was wise to include them. Everyone won except rogues guilds and platinum guilds that were moved up above their comfort levels...
 

Yekk

Regent
If the rewards are secondary why are two guilds controlling the map and swapping all the time and leaving flags 159/160 ???
If competition is the key why are they not fighting each other and try to conquer the whole map ???
putting up only part of what King Flush wrote and removing the rest? not good...

King flush said
" we do all seem to agree on the fact that the league structure is what needs changing, if the top guilds were put together I wouldn't complain, it would be hard work and could be us finding ourselves on the wrong side of an alliance you may end up with tag team battles who knows it would likely be tough going and less rewards but the rewards are secondary the competition is key."

Quite the opposite huh?
 
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