Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

[PackCat]

This is exactly the situation with our guild. We have some great active fighters, and also welcome new players to learn. We do very well in Platinum and lower Diamond, and play along with the swaps as needed. Usually in Platinum and lower Diamond, any guild that wants to can participate and get a piece of the map. Most guilds at these levels are fine with teamwork from guilds that are a little slower - they are trying as they can. Then we do so well that that we occasionally get pushed up to 1000. Then we have a boring or stressful season. We don't want to be in 1000. Sometimes you get a nice group that will share a small piece of the map, but we realize that we still can not keep up to satisfy them. Then there are seasons like this one, where 3 guilds control the map and are not letting any of the others out of HQ. They lock the map within minutes every 4 hours. Our guild members WANT to get on the field. We want the activity, and yes we want rewards. But we are stuck. We are not jealous of the big guilds. They can do their thing. We just don't want to be on the field with them. If the big guilds did not have zero attrition all day, there might come a point where they can not take the map in minutes. Maybe some can, but it might at least give other guilds a chance to get onto the field.

And yes, sometimes the big guilds steal our best fighters. That happens, and we realize that some players want to get into the professional guilds. Some say they got more hits when in our guild, because in the big guild there are only a few minutes to hit every 4 hours. I think that has to do with the 0 attrition. It hurts in the big guilds, because a few are taking most of the hits. Higher attrition will help them, because more players in the guild will have a chance to get some hits.

Excellent report. You described in detail, that it is beyond the grasp of players, and falls into the lap of INNO to only manage lineups, not player activity.

 

[DEADP00L]

To blame one group of Guilds/Fighters for the demise of everyone else is not a solution.

But I don't blame any group of players, at most those who complain without admitting the real reason.

To say that nerfing SCs goes against strategy or competition is a lie, it just prevents gaining more gains.
To say that not nerfing SCs helps small and medium guilds is also a lie.

I've always said it, I understand your disappointment but don't hide your reaction behind false assertions.

For having lived it, I made more fights (therefore more gains) with 2 or 3 big guilds on the map than before the previous modification where we were regularly 6 to 7 big guilds together.
I read complaints to stop these groupings and Inno listened to them by penalizing average guilds for 2 years.

Propose to Inno to set up the old system in the diamond league BUT that the regrouping of guilds is done on the number of diamond cups which are now available and I will vote favorably. So the 8 strongest guilds in each world would face at least 1 out of 2 GbG and you will find that depending on the diplomacy, some guilds will gain less gains than with the nerf.

 

[jovada]

Looks like a very boring season for my guild this time. We have your guild. Many have asked that how guilds are paired be changed.

Of course if you can't click all day long like a zombie it's boring.
And yes matchmaking is still a point it has also been said here a hundred times.
But inno corrected the 0 attrition now that's a start, maybe next correction will be matchmaking you never know.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

You do not score additional points by just holding sectors... that is a myth some Guilds believe. No one cares all that much about Guild VP position as long as they are earning new fights. I don't know why you are so triggered by "4-hour rentals". It is the hold time once you capture a sector.
Players only earn points by fighting and INNO wants to limit that. If you own the entire map, you are not earning new points and the season would be painfully boring.

This is what led to Guilds learning to swap sectors and eventually make friendly partnerships for a season.
A player/Guild should not be penalized and punished for gaining experience, even if it was an unintended consequence that INNO did not foresee.
Limiting fights is not going to change the outcomes. Better Guilds will still own the entire map and some Guilds will still complain they cannot win sectors.

Unless I am misinformed, Guilds earn victory points based on the number of sectors that they hold and victory points determine the winner of the season. Agreed, holding sectors does nothing for individual players that are only interested in (1) individual player ranking points or (2) rewards from battles.

 

[PackCat]

The same question still remains

If the rewards are secondary why are two guilds controlling the map and swapping all the time and leaving flags 159/160 ???
If competition is the key why are they not fighting each other and try to conquer the whole map ???

As a strategy, they could go by Guild prestige rankings for a season or so. Guilds would have the ability to move up or drop down.
It is not perfect, but much better than the current assignments.
If for the top 100 Guilds, they could be classified as Diamond, or 20-crystal & 80 diamond.
The first page of the rankings (10) could be scrambled into 2-5 Guild matchups.
Same for the 2nd Page.

If there was a problem with number of members, that would on the Guild to manage. You cannot be in the World top-10 and complain about unfair matchups with your peers.

 

[PackCat]

Of course if you can't click all day long like a zombie it's boring.
And yes matchmaking is still a point it has also been said here a hundred times.
But inno corrected the 0 attrition now that's a start, maybe next correction will be matchmaking you never know.

They should have corrected the matchup first and then see if attrition was still an issue.
If you are fighting against peer Guilds, it should not be anyone else's business how you manage your season.
It only becomes an issue when the matches are not balanced and some lesser Guilds feel overmatched,

 

[DEADP00L]

If there was a problem with number of members, that would on the Guild to manage. You cannot be in the World top-10 and complain about unfair matchups with your peers.

The guild that I created on a live world, consisting of 20 active members, we are ranked between 40th and 80th according to GbG.
Why are we regularly confronted with 2 guilds ranked in the top 10?
Aren't we lazy enough to fight too much?
Aren't we rich enough when our guild treasury is overflowing?
Are we unlucky 1 out of 2 GbG?
FYI we do about 10,000 fights when we're with big guilds and 80,000 when we're with medium guilds.
According to your criteria, what are we?

 

[jovada]

It only becomes an issue when the matches are not balanced and some lesser Guilds feel overmatched,

That was an issue pointed out right from the start and was discussed here on beta also, after a couple of seasons i proposed 1 slot in every sector , everybody equal , no advantage of a guild having 2 slots in front HQ and another 0, you could still do some sectors with 0 attrition , those who are surrounded by 4 or 5 other sectors,
I created a poll and of course the farmers were not interested in a fair game and voted it away

And maybe is the real reason why inno corrected this was just because the endless fighting and people turning it only into a war game, every publicity i see from innogames they are still announcing it as a city-building game.

 

[Yekk]

Of course if you can't click all day long like a zombie it's boring.
And yes matchmaking is still a point it has also been said here a hundred times.
But inno corrected the 0 attrition now that's a start, maybe next correction will be matchmaking you never know.

Some will not be able to click at all...Now do we take your tiles for the fights at unlock or wait till after reset and allow you to have 0 attrition again? You might be able to move out another tile or 2 whereas most of the guild I am in have not even got up yet... Yes we are bored...

 

[King Flush]

That was an issue pointed out right from the start and was discussed here on beta also, after a couple of seasons i proposed 1 slot in every sector , everybody equal , no advantage of a guild having 2 slots in front HQ and another 0, you could still do some sectors with 0 attrition , those who are surrounded by 4 or 5 other sectors,
I created a poll and of course the farmers were not interested in a fair game and voted it away

And maybe is the real reason why inno corrected this was just because the endless fighting and people turning it only into a war game, every publicity i see from innogames they are still announcing it as a city-building game.

I'd agree maybe that all surrounding HQ sectors should all be equal so guilds aren't dissadvantaged by luck, however having random building slots does provide a tactical element to the game so let's not look to bring something else in that numbs the game not that it will matter if the nerf comes in as will be numb enough then that anything else really won't matter

 

[Demeter7]

The guild that I created on a live world, consisting of 20 active members, we are ranked between 40th and 80th according to GbG.
Why are we regularly confronted with 2 guilds ranked in the top 10?
...

Same problem here. Our guild was ranked #41 at the beginning of this GBG season. WHY are we now on the same GBG map with our world's #1 and #7 guilds? How is that a fair match? We are #35 right now and move up and down, but are never in the top 20. It does not seem right to force guilds to suffer for doing well by putting them against the top guilds.

 

[Yekk]

The guild that I created on a live world, consisting of 20 active members, we are ranked between 40th and 80th according to GbG.
Why are we regularly confronted with 2 guilds ranked in the top 10?
Aren't we lazy enough to fight too much?
Aren't we rich enough when our guild treasury is overflowing?
Are we unlucky 1 out of 2 GbG?
FYI we do about 10,000 fights when we're with big guilds and 80,000 when we're with medium guilds.
According to your criteria, what are we?

Believe me... those top guilds do not like the pairings either. They are watching the grass grow when paired with you but you have the same problem.

You ask "According to your criteria, what are we?" My answer is in the wrong league...

Inno really blew it with this change which does not fix your problem. It only hurts the best AND YOU.

 

[xivarmy]

Wow. just wow... Do you go to a movie theatre and try to sneak in for free because you do not expect to see the end of the movie?
Sectors are 4-hour rentals, not monthly or seasonal leases. And if it is not hard to build up treasuries and build SC, then do it, and don't complain and show your envy about others that actually do. Stronger Guilds are going to do what Stronger Guilds do,,, Build & FIGHT! It you are not a member of a stronger Guild, find a way to improve yourself or find another Guild more in line with your expectations. Punishing 1 group of players is not fair to anyone. The equivalent of this in reciprocal form would be that a Guild is Required to build an SC to fight for a sector. That would not be fair either, but gives a good analogy in reverse to explain what is happening to only 1 subset of fighters.

I have not been short of resources to build a siege camp in a very long time. The reason I often don't is that a "4 hour rental" is typically only long enough near reset - and only if the sector lockout timers are cooperative. You see those weak guilds have to pay every attrition to get that first sector, and it's a significant amount to them. And yet the guilds occupying the middle can take them back at no attrition cost 4 hours later. Which has nothing to do with whether the weak guild can afford to build and everything to do with not having any reasonable opportunity to.

It doesn't make sense to rent a siege camp for 4 hours even if you can afford it when you're not going to get much use out of it.

 

[jovada]

Some will not be able to click at all...Now do we take your tiles for the fights at unlock or wait till after reset and allow you to have 0 attrition again? You might be able to move out another tile or 2 whereas most of the guild I am in have not even got up yet... Yes we are bored...

First that has nothing to do with 0 attrition or not, with 0 attrition you would have just the same because that is not the problem , the problem is just that you are unlucky now with matchmaking and you are the only big guild on the map, maybe 1 other with 42 members and the rest around 20 or less.
And do you wish to make us a target go ahead that only shows how your mentality is.
We do our best and fight , you can't denie that , it's not our fault you have no second big guild to fight against.

 

[Donna a Macskabolond]

First that has nothing to do with 0 attrition or not, with 0 attrition you would have just the same because that is not the problem , the problem is just that you are unlucky now with matchmaking and you are the only big guild on the map, maybe 1 other with 42 members and the rest around 20 or less.
And do you wish to make us a target go ahead that only shows how your mentality is.
We do our best and fight , you can't denie that , it's not our fault you have no second big guild to fight against.

And not Yekk guild's fault either.
But they will be punished much more than you with the cap.

 

[Donna a Macskabolond]

Same problem here. Our guild was ranked #41 at the beginning of this GBG season. WHY are we now on the same GBG map with our world's #1 and #7 guilds? How is that a fair match? We are #35 right now and move up and down, but are never in the top 20. It does not seem right to force guilds to suffer for doing well by putting them against the top guilds.

In my world there are at least 10 guilds in the top 10 (ranking) what aren't diamond league material either. You could have been lucky and got one or two of those and you would have been evenly matched. This is why the matchmaking based on ranking won't work either.
The guild ranking is based on GvG, don't show anything about the guilds strength in GBG. Also my guild (45 members) much stronger than lots of 80 members guild because we are specialized for fighting. The matchmaking system should consider the real fighting capabilities and headcount not guild ranking.

 

[Gunder Gunderson]

FYI we do about 10,000 fights when we're with big guilds and 80,000 when we're with medium guilds.
According to your criteria, what are we?

you are greedy. You want more fights to get more farm. Greedy like hell.

so, stop complaining about big greedy guilds.

You are greedy to.

 

[jovada]

And not Yekk guild's fault either.
But they will be punished much more than you with the cap.

Really i don't think you understand it ,

Without the cap they just face the same problem , they are the only big guild on the map.
Second why say punished with the cap? No it's an adjustment to avoid the endless fighting and farming.
Third i said it's not our fault , because first there was a reaction here from him because we were not on the map yet, and when we are and doing what we can the second reaction is to push us again to hq so we have to fight again with full attrition, well go ahead i said because that is very smart they will have even less possibility to fight or they just want to make us a target.

 

[Beta King]

The guild that I created on a live world, consisting of 20 active members, we are ranked between 40th and 80th according to GbG.
Why are we regularly confronted with 2 guilds ranked in the top 10?
Aren't we lazy enough to fight too much?
Aren't we rich enough when our guild treasury is overflowing?
Are we unlucky 1 out of 2 GbG?
FYI we do about 10,000 fights when we're with big guilds and 80,000 when we're with medium guilds.
According to your criteria, what are we?

You are a big mean bully in platinum doing 80k fights and not spoon feeding those fights to the baby guilds you go up against and not motivating them to participate and collect!

 

[xivarmy]

You are a big mean bully in platinum doing 80k fights and not spoon feeding those fights to the baby guilds you go up against and not motivating them to participate and collect!

Except to get those 80k fights, they probably ARE spoonfeeding the baby platinum guilds. In most of my worlds diamond is a full map lockout but platinum (at least when we're the top guild in it - but it seems to be the general operating procedure whoever is dominating it), we HQ *noone*. a) Because we need all their contributions to get a reasonable number of fights. b) Because we don't like it much when it's done to us in diamond. c) Because it may lead to more interesting moments which are few and far between. Some of them still don't do much, but they at least have opportunity to when it suits them.