Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

[Beta King]

Why not test the possibility for guilds to decline promotion to the next higher league, e.g. until Tuesday, or the same time limit for applying to take part at the Copper League? Very often, I notice guilds who fight 159 battels on outer provinces, but they never take the province, just to make sure that they get back to the lower league. At the moment, there are by far too many guilds in Diamond League who are too weak. A faster attrition with the nerf will not change much. If the top guilds have their chessboard pattern, these can concentrate on locking out the weaker guilds, who will not be able to keep up with the speed, no matter if the nerf is implemented or not.

I like it and this would also push somewhat stronger guilds(not quite strong enough to compete in Diamond, usually finishing 3-4 place) into platinum where they can dominate and choose to stay if they like thus turning platinum into the next best chessboard destination for ok guilds. Choose between locked in the corner 1/2 of the seasons while in diamond or dominate every season in platinum...

 

[DEADP00L]

And what will happen when there are only 8 guilds left in Diamond while the others lock in Platinum or Gold?
These 8 guilds will end up at 6 the following season, then at 4, ...

 

[Yekk]

And what will happen when there are only 8 guilds left in Diamond while the others lock in Platinum or Gold?
These 8 guilds will end up at 6 the following season, then at 4, ...

That is where escalating rewards play in, Diamond's are better than Platinum's and so on down the list. Major game play changes should always have other "adjustments" done at the same time. It maybe necessary to add a league between 1K and Platinum. It maybe necessary to adjust the rewards. We will be at 6 months in beta for the nerf with most against it in one way or another. Most though would accept it if it included fixing what is more wrong with GBG.

 

[DEADP00L]

That is where escalating rewards play in, Diamond's are better than Platinum's and so on down the list.

But many would rather do 1,000 Platinum fights for 8 FP than 100 Diamond fights for 10 FP.
For a higher league to be attractive, there must be a very clear difference with the league immediately below.
However if Inno increases the Diamond gains, it would only deviate even more.
And if Inno decreases the gains from Platinum, a lot of guilds will turn away from GbG.
So I come back to my question that Inno does not want to answer, why not apply what happens in any championship worthy of the name? A defined number of places in each league AND that the best guilds face each other at the top of this championship.

 

[Yekk]

But many would rather do 1,000 Platinum fights for 8 FP than 100 Diamond fights for 10 FP.
For a higher league to be attractive, there must be a very clear difference with the league immediately below.
However if Inno increases the Diamond gains, it would only deviate even more.
And if Inno decreases the gains from Platinum, a lot of guilds will turn away from GbG.
So I come back to my question that Inno does not want to answer, why not apply what happens in any championship worthy of the name? A defined number of places in each league AND that the best guilds face each other at the top of this championship.

How to balance is the million dollar question but FP need not be the only rewards. For an example doing Diamond may have a 10% reduction in build cost (goods) or a league long guild or player buff. We all (at least from what I have read) agree balance is pretty much non existent now above platinum for at least 1/4 of each league in most leagues.
I agree the current system that ranks leagues is junk and would be amiable to using a ranked system with no cap and % of the list in each league.

 

[Demeter7]

Why not test the possibility for guilds to decline promotion to the next higher league, e.g. until Tuesday, or the same time limit for applying to take part at the Copper League? Very often, I notice guilds who fight 159 battels on outer provinces, but they never take the province, just to make sure that they get back to the lower league. At the moment, there are by far too many guilds in Diamond League who are too weak. A faster attrition with the nerf will not change much. If the top guilds have their chessboard pattern, these can concentrate on locking out the weaker guilds, who will not be able to keep up with the speed, no matter if the nerf is implemented or not.

In theory I like that idea. But that could lead to abuse. A more powerful guild could choose to remain in a lower league just so that they can rule there.

 

[CrashBoom]

In theory I like that idea. But that could lead to abuse. A more powerful guild could choose to remain in a lower league just so that they can rule there.

and I would love to see their face when they recognize the opponents are all weak and after the first day they have the whole map and the remaining days they can look on the map and see how great they are

 

[Yekk]

and I would love to see their face when they recognize the opponents are all weak and after the first day they have the whole map and the remaining days they can look on the map and see how great they are

Exactly, sitting for 11 days watching guilds that do not build nor have players that can pass 30 att will stop the better guilds from stepping down. I do not see this as a problem. Most guilds have multi-world players that play in better and worse leagues. They will know better. Those guilds have had 3 years to also know where they fit in best. Does 1K make them the best or is D-lite a better fit. Right now though they get both and get trounced in 1K or have to sandbag in D-lite.

 

[Demeter7]

Exactly, sitting for 11 days watching guilds that do not build nor have players that can pass 30 att will stop the better guilds from stepping down. I do not see this as a problem. Most guilds have multi-world players that play in better and worse leagues. They will know better. Those guilds have had 3 years to also know where they fit in best. Does 1K make them the best or is D-lite a better fit. Right now though they get both and get trounced in 1K or have to sandbag in D-lite.

Very good point!
In my main guild, we know that we do great in upper platinum, and do well in lower diamond. 1K diamond is terrible for us. But it is just too easy to get pushed up to 1K.

 

[Owl II]

I'm going to say an unpopular thing now, but this won't be the first time I've said unpopular things. I covered myself from rotten tomatoes in advance

Everyone agrees that the matchup is wrong in GBG. And everyone wants to adjust the matchmaking system to the existing needs and ambitions of the guilds (or lack thereof). But no one wants to think that If you really want to play this GBG, you can adjust yourself to the existing system. It's possible. It's available. But this requires serious efforts and does not give any significant advantages. For a weak guild, it is preferable to be in platinum than in diamond. It should be the other way around. Guilds should strive with all their might to get into the diamond. To win in a diamond. But not enough to remove the cap from 1000 or change the bounds of leagues and LP per round to it happen. It is necessary to create conditions for the guilds to strive to strengthen.
90% of guilds are currently playing GB leveling, and look to GBG as a source of building material for their beautiful and tall houses. And it should be the opposite. Houses must be built to successfully play GBG.

It should be remembered however that we are playing a dying game that is of no interest to either developers or players to the extent that it was before. No miracle will happen. No one will invest in the development of any major changes. Maximum - is that they will nerf camps and draw another map

 

[Yekk]

I'm going to say an unpopular thing now, but this won't be the first time I've said unpopular things. I covered myself from rotten tomatoes in advance

Everyone agrees that the matchup is wrong in GBG. And everyone wants to adjust the matchmaking system to the existing needs and ambitions of the guilds (or lack thereof). But no one wants to think that If you really want to play this GBG, you can adjust yourself to the existing system. It's possible. It's available. But this requires serious efforts and does not give any significant advantages. For a weak guild, it is preferable to be in platinum than in diamond. It should be the other way around. Guilds should strive with all their might to get into the diamond. To win in a diamond. But not enough to remove the cap from 1000 or change the bounds of leagues and LP per round to it happen. It is necessary to create conditions for the guilds to strive to strengthen.
90% of guilds are currently playing GB leveling, and look to GBG as a source of building material for their beautiful and tall houses. And it should be the opposite. Houses must be built to successfully play GBG.

It should be remembered however that we are playing a dying game that is of no interest to either developers or players to the extent that it was before. No miracle will happen. No one will invest in the development of any major changes. Maximum - is that they will nerf camps and draw another map

It is still Inno's most played game I believe. Yes it is aged but how it is played, by ages, keeps it from being out-dated. As for Inno will not invest. I disagree. First Inno has attempted to add new content albeit with mixed results. It has updated old content in some areas. GE will get a redo, hopefully by years end.

GBG was broke when released. Normally companies will access the problem, once accessed decide ways to correct it then release a new and improved version. With GBG Inno ignored players complaints. The game morphed to haves and have nots. That broke the game more. Inno ignored that us humans are inventive. We will take what is offered and play in ways well off the original play model.

But back to a fix. Fixing GBG is not man hour intensive. Open end rating is already used in the Arena with decay. Updating to a percentage in each league easy to implement. Changing rewards or adding buffs just as easy.

 

[Demeter7]

I'm going to say an unpopular thing now, but this won't be the first time I've said unpopular things. I covered myself from rotten tomatoes in advance

Everyone agrees that the matchup is wrong in GBG. And everyone wants to adjust the matchmaking system to the existing needs and ambitions of the guilds (or lack thereof). But no one wants to think that If you really want to play this GBG, you can adjust yourself to the existing system. It's possible. It's available. But this requires serious efforts and does not give any significant advantages. For a weak guild, it is preferable to be in platinum than in diamond. It should be the other way around. Guilds should strive with all their might to get into the diamond. To win in a diamond. But not enough to remove the cap from 1000 or change the bounds of leagues and LP per round to it happen. It is necessary to create conditions for the guilds to strive to strengthen.
90% of guilds are currently playing GB leveling, and look to GBG as a source of building material for their beautiful and tall houses. And it should be the opposite. Houses must be built to successfully play GBG.

It should be remembered however that we are playing a dying game that is of no interest to either developers or players to the extent that it was before. No miracle will happen. No one will invest in the development of any major changes. Maximum - is that they will nerf camps and draw another map

You are correct that guilds should work on increasing player/city power to compete in GBG. But the issue is not that simple.

There are some big guilds with many players with high fight counts, but many of those players are coasting along on the zero/low attrition. They don't care about building power. They just care about their guild being able to build those camps for them. Those guilds usually do have a handful of powerful players with scores in the billions, and lots of minions who help keep the map locked down every 4 hours.

Then you have guilds with fewer players, but those players are strong. Their treasury is decent, and they can build camps. They do well in GBG, and all of a sudden they are in 1K diamond. Then they are up against a couple of 80 player guilds who lock up the map every 4 hours. Once those big guilds get through the first round and place their camps, no one else can get onto the map.

Some say that the answer is to join one of those big guilds if you want to play GBG. I find that response ridiculous. Other guilds should be able to play GBG, and should be able to work to be strong and better, without being punished for it by ending up on the map with guilds that lock them out of playing.

 

[-Alin-]

Previous rounds of our guild were active to very active, like the previous in wich we did 60k fights for whole guild, it was a pretty though one in which even happened to lose nearly all of our sectors from the map taken by the other guilds.

Now I have no idea what happened but we are paired with some of the weakest guilds in diamond from the entire beta server, I counted all other 7 guild members and in total are 83 players ... And our guild have 58 members ...

This round we will sleep, maybe Saturn and Easy Riders will move some sectors with us, but I cant see any other guild doing so.

Spoiler: This round

Is this a punishment now, for being that active?

 

[Owl II]

You are correct that guilds should work on increasing player/city power to compete in GBG. But the issue is not that simple.

There are some big guilds with many players with high fight counts, but many of those players are coasting along on the zero/low attrition. They don't care about building power. They just care about their guild being able to build those camps for them. Those guilds usually do have a handful of powerful players with scores in the billions, and lots of minions who help keep the map locked down every 4 hours.

Then you have guilds with fewer players, but those players are strong. Their treasury is decent, and they can build camps. They do well in GBG, and all of a sudden they are in 1K diamond. Then they are up against a couple of 80 player guilds who lock up the map every 4 hours. Once those big guilds get through the first round and place their camps, no one else can get onto the map.

Some say that the answer is to join one of those big guilds if you want to play GBG. I find that response ridiculous. Other guilds should be able to play GBG, and should be able to work to be strong and better, without being punished for it by ending up on the map with guilds that lock them out of playing.

If you are blocked, then it's not your class. We were thrown off the map and blocked for half a day yesterday by 2 guilds that are stronger than us and higher in the ranking. We're having fun this season: two guilds discard the third one from the map. OMG, we are still in the lead, despite that we slept off at night and returned to the map only the next morning.

I agree, it's not easy. But the solution is to give the guild and guild tasks more importance. And not to cut the tendons of strong participants. One of the players in this thread was talking about how it was solved in another game. But unfortunately FOE has never been a team game (except for the early period when guild levels were of high importance, when the GvG flourished) This is a game about building houses in the garden entrusted to you. That's why we have such low competition in all types of team gameplay. That's why FOE's team gameplay is so boring. That's why a good concept was eventually turned into a stupid farm (GBG)

 

[Owl II]

Yes, and never tell anyone else that several people are able to hold the entire map, changing sectors every 4 hours (especially waterfalls). You don't know what you're talking about

 

[Yekk]

Previous rounds of our guild were active to very active, like the previous in wich we did 60k fights for whole guild, it was a pretty though one in which even happened to lose nearly all of our sectors from the map taken by the other guilds.

Now I have no idea what happened but we are paired with some of the weakest guilds in diamond from the entire beta server, I counted all other 7 guild members and in total are 83 players ... And our guild have 58 members ...

This round we will sleep, maybe Saturn and Easy Riders will move some sectors with us, but I cant see any other guild doing so.

Spoiler: This round

View attachment 8639
View attachment 8640

Is this a punishment now, for being that active?

The guilds we were with and the guilds we are against also are getting punished. We are not alone.
Beta is about testing this nerf. It has shown it has problems yet Inno refuses to address any. This is but one. I personally like tension in a game. Evenly matched leagues give that. Yes any guild can lose in a league where others match up. For 5 months we have been told Inno is collecting info. We know better. There is no info that a few leagues does not bear out. Nothing new has happened since then. When is Inno going to reply with more than we have nothing for the community?

@Juber

 

[Yekk]

Yes, and never tell anyone else that several people are able to hold the entire map, changing sectors every 4 hours (especially waterfalls). You don't know what you're talking about

Actually that is incorrect. The trick is to not flip all the tiles. Leave the checkerboard in the middle and flip at the enemy. That reduces fights, extends attrition, and controls the map. If by some chance they get out close tiles at them. 4 hours later they get moved back. On beta most guilds work gentleman's agreement but on live the above will be used. The ranking system we have means weak guilds that do not figure in in a battle situation can be ignored leaving one guild at the mercy of the others. Unless even matches occur such as Dragonstar saw last league with 6 good guilds abuse can and will still occur.

 

[MJ Artisan of War]

Results of GBG Nerf...

Analysis Complete....

 

[Owl II]

Actually that is incorrect. The trick is to not flip all the tiles. Leave the checkerboard in the middle and flip at the enemy. That reduces fights, extends attrition, and controls the map. If by some chance they get out close tiles at them. 4 hours later they get moved back. On beta most guilds work gentleman's agreement but on live the above will be used. The ranking system we have means weak guilds that do not figure in in a battle situation can be ignored leaving one guild at the mercy of the others. Unless even matches occur such as Dragonstar saw last league with 6 good guilds abuse can and will still occur.

What you call abuse is actually force. What you call trick is actually a weakness. What you call a gentleman's agreement is a farming commune. All this has nothing to do with the competitive gameplay that GBG was conceived of, And then we go to the next round of the same song about fair farming

 

[Owl II]

I have a question, the answer to which I have not found on all 230 pages of this thread. Why do guilds that are not among the five strongest need GBG?