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Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

blueskydwg

Steward
the lack of intelligence staggers me when I read comments like this, or maybe it's just a poor understanding of mathematics and logic, all the negative effects of the nerf are blatantly obvious, you can all stick your head in the sand and try to dismiss things, deem players views who don't play Beta as irrelevant but will make it all the more sweet to say 'I told you so' after the event, bring it on!
And you continue to ignore my actual facts - I'm a mid level in a large guild that 99% of the time dominates the map - and set's up strategic alliances to allow more swapping.
In the first two seasons my number of fights tripled (let me say that again so you understand - TRIPLED) over the average for the prior 5 seasons. In both seasons after the change I had my highest totals ever in Beta.

Those aren't uninformed opinions - those are demonstratable facts.
 

-Alin-

Emperor
And you continue to ignore my actual facts - I'm a mid level in a large guild that 99% of the time dominates the map - and set's up strategic alliances to allow more swapping.
In the first two seasons my number of fights tripled (let me say that again so you understand - TRIPLED) over the average for the prior 5 seasons. In both seasons after the change I had my highest totals ever in Beta.

Those aren't uninformed opinions - those are demonstratable facts.

Just because your fights tripled in this case doesnt mean those are demonstratable facts.
You are just comparing apples with pears, is not the biggest players fault you are weak and slow and you are not able to fight at their speeds when they do swaps.
You are happy now because You now have a bit more chances to get some fights when you are opening your computer because the others in the guild werent able to do take them, they maxed their attrition after 250-300 fights.

I know players in PE or lower ages that were able to do 3-8k fights per round before the nerf, they just were active in the key moments and developed their stats in this way to do so, thats it, not to mention there are other type of players that went for the `„strategy” with higer ages units in lower ages and they are able to do even higher attrition than normal on their ages, but here is another broken story ...

Anyway more than 4.5k fights per player per round will be history from now on here on beta.
 

Fenix

Viceroy
I've been on both sides of the coin, one in the guild that dominated the map along with another, preventing all others from doing anything (this option is now completely gone). I've also been two seasons in a row where I was completely blocked by 2 other guilds, they were two horrible seasons for me, in which I accessed the map to get out of there immediately, at the end I didn't even bother to open the map, I knew how it was (this is now also totally over). And that's why I like this change unconditionally (I get less rewards yes, but I always get rewards regardless of everything else).

This are also facts.
 
And you continue to ignore my actual facts - I'm a mid level in a large guild that 99% of the time dominates the map - and set's up strategic alliances to allow more swapping.
In the first two seasons my number of fights tripled (let me say that again so you understand - TRIPLED) over the average for the prior 5 seasons. In both seasons after the change I had my highest totals ever in Beta.

Those aren't uninformed opinions - those are demonstratable facts.
Well my fights per season dropped by 75% POST NERF....
Those aren't uninformed opinions - those are just the hard facts......
Well, we now have some player commentary to complement the data that I referred to in two earlier posts. The top fighters in the top guilds are going to see their fights decline while the middle- and lower-level fighters are going to get more opportunity to fight. Whether they make use of this new opportunity, or not, will be entirely up to them.
 

blueskydwg

Steward
Just because your fights tripled in this case doesnt mean those are demonstratable facts.
You are just comparing apples with pears, is not the biggest players fault you are weak and slow and you are not able to fight at their speeds when they do swaps.
You are happy now because You now have a bit more chances to get some fights when you are opening your computer because the others in the guild werent able to do take them, they maxed their attrition after 250-300 fights.

I know players in PE or lower ages that were able to do 3-8k fights per round before the nerf, they just were active in the key moments and developed their stats in this way to do so, thats it, not to mention there are other type of players that went for the `„strategy” with higer ages units in lower ages and they are able to do even higher attrition than normal on their ages, but here is another broken story ...

Anyway more than 4.5k fights per player per round will be history from now on here on beta.
Well, they are demonstratable facts - but you are correct that they aren't necessarily repeatable.
And yes, my increase was largely due to fights being available more often than not, compared to prior seasons when the more active players cleared the map quickly. And yes, I'm an opportunist - I don't set my alarm to be ready every 4 hours - I check it when I check it. If there is something there I hit it, if there isn't, I don't.

This season, as my guild mates have reported, is going much slower - but that isn't completely driven by the change (if at all) but more so that we simply don't have one or two other guilds active enough to swap every 4 or 5 hours. But this has happened in the past before the change also. It's just which guilds you happen to be matched against.

Someone pointed out earlier (many, many times LOL) that the math is the math.
This change will in no uncertain terms, reduce the maximum number of fights that anyone can get. Most heavy fighters probably weren't getting 1K per day, but even if 600 or 700, that number will now be reduced. If the reduction results in a simple reduction, then yes, the map will move slower. If the reduction results in less active players (notice how I changed that from lower level :) ) getting in more fights like I did in the first two seasons, then the map should continue to swap out.

The reality is that there are many scenarios that get played out every battleground - two or three large guilds dominating the map is the norm, but not always. My hope is that in my live server (small but active guild - dominates in diamond lite but depends on the good graces of the large guilds in regular diamond) the change will give my guild a little more breathing room to move into the second ring on the map.

We'll see when we see.
 
Just because your fights tripled in this case doesnt mean those are demonstratable facts.
You are just comparing apples with pears, is not the biggest players fault you are weak and slow and you are not able to fight at their speeds when they do swaps.
You are happy now because You now have a bit more chances to get some fights when you are opening your computer because the others in the guild werent able to do take them, they maxed their attrition after 250-300 fights.

I know players in PE or lower ages that were able to do 3-8k fights per round before the nerf, they just were active in the key moments and developed their stats in this way to do so, thats it, not to mention there are other type of players that went for the `„strategy” with higer ages units in lower ages and they are able to do even higher attrition than normal on their ages, but here is another broken story ...

Anyway more than 4.5k fights per player per round will be history from now on here on beta.
In every top guild there are top fighters, those with hyper-level Trazs and AOs and huge attack boosts. Accompanying them are guildmates that are less powerful. When swaps begin, the top fighters consume the majority of the fights while their weaker mates struggle to keep up. I bet that you have never asked if your lower ranked mates were happy with the fight distribution. You have been complaining about not getting the fights that you grew accustomed to. The silver lining to this cloud is the evidence that indicates your guildmates will become the beneficiaries of your loss. I'm going to lose a lot of fights when this change hits live but you won't hear me crying about it.
 

blueskydwg

Steward
I've been on both sides of the coin, one in the guild that dominated the map along with another, preventing all others from doing anything (this option is now completely gone). I've also been two seasons in a row where I was completely blocked by 2 other guilds, they were two horrible seasons for me, in which I accessed the map to get out of there immediately, at the end I didn't even bother to open the map, I knew how it was (this is now also totally over). And that's why I like this change unconditionally (I get less rewards yes, but I always get rewards regardless of everything else).

This are also facts.
Exactly.
In live, my guild is fortunate to have good relations with the large guilds to the extent that most times we can beg borrow or steal enough to stay in diamond (4th or 5th place). We then come roaring back from diamond lite - lather, rinse, repeat.

It's possible, with the change, that we will have a little easier time getting tiles. We are an active guild - so all we need to do is stay a little ahead of the less active guilds to maintain diamond status.

I'd like to see that kind of feedback on here - maybe it's here and I missed it.
But are any smaller guilds in diamond able to work the fringes of the map to get some fights and maintain diamond status. This implies an active guild that wants to work, not the opportunistic guilds that just happened to end up in diamond because they got a few fights in platinum to move up.
 

-Alin-

Emperor
In every top guild there are top fighters, those with hyper-level Trazs and AOs and huge attack boosts. Accompanying them are guildmates that are less powerful. When swaps begin, the top fighters consume the majority of the fights while their weaker mates struggle to keep up. I bet that you have never asked if your lower ranked mates were happy with the fight distribution. You have been whining about not getting the fights that you grew accustomed to and the silver lining to this cloud is the evidence that indicates your guildmates will become the beneficiaries of your loss. I'm going to lose a lot of fights when this change hits live but you won't hear me crying about it.
Not crying either, I just came with some ideas here and there on how rewards could be improved in my previous posts, GbG was weaker for me in terms of forgepoints, I made thousands more from sniping till today, I am not fussed for GbG that hard, I havent played it for one year and so, my ranking points are made from collecting and great buildings since january 2015 on this account, I have the less ammounts of fights in the top of players here in beta, everyone can see this :p
And I agree, now the other weak players will have the chance to get some „more” fights in, but not that many more as before from the total of fights from the whole guild, if the top players arent fussed anymore to do their fights now with the nerf, the little ones will have less too. I mostly use my attrition on 42, 56 and 66% and reach 120 attrition to open many more sectors with at least 56% for others in the guild.

Before the nerf it was a thing of availability in the key moments, many lost battles because the other 10-15 top fighters in the guild were there nearly each swap of sectors and others came a half an hour later or hours later. GbG rewarded „greedy” and active players.
Back in Saab we put a limit on 500 fights on our guild for some seasons because we were many fighting on a sector and it could be easily accidentaly closed, 20 to 30 players around, back then it was fun and we spread the fights also. Now in the last year and so when I wasnt around at all on FoE to get my fights in, I havent said anything, I kept collecting my 6k treasury goods and I havent said anything to anyone in my guild doing 5-15k fights while I did 0 :p
I simply didnt care, RL stuff was more important, but I still do my best on games when I am around, even if for 30 minutes/day :p

Well, they are demonstratable facts - but you are correct that they aren't necessarily repeatable.
And yes, my increase was largely due to fights being available more often than not, compared to prior seasons when the more active players cleared the map quickly. And yes, I'm an opportunist - I don't set my alarm to be ready every 4 hours - I check it when I check it. If there is something there I hit it, if there isn't, I don't.

This season, as my guild mates have reported, is going much slower - but that isn't completely driven by the change (if at all) but more so that we simply don't have one or two other guilds active enough to swap every 4 or 5 hours. But this has happened in the past before the change also. It's just which guilds you happen to be matched against.

Someone pointed out earlier (many, many times LOL) that the math is the math.
This change will in no uncertain terms, reduce the maximum number of fights that anyone can get. Most heavy fighters probably weren't getting 1K per day, but even if 600 or 700, that number will now be reduced. If the reduction results in a simple reduction, then yes, the map will move slower. If the reduction results in less active players (notice how I changed that from lower level :) ) getting in more fights like I did in the first two seasons, then the map should continue to swap out.

The reality is that there are many scenarios that get played out every battleground - two or three large guilds dominating the map is the norm, but not always. My hope is that in my live server (small but active guild - dominates in diamond lite but depends on the good graces of the large guilds in regular diamond) the change will give my guild a little more breathing room to move into the second ring on the map.

We'll see when we see.

I really appreciate your sincerity here :)
Math is math, I know, everywhere I will meet this as an engineer :)))

But now a top guild will struggle reaching 50k fights/round with the nerf, rather than previous rounds without the nerf in which top guilds could reach even 150k fights per round as a whole guild. Now the problem is with the spreading, and here is a issue for every guild especially, they need to spread the fights and be able to fight at the desire times, the other players that cant be around when are swaps should not be that upset on the others that were there to fight ...
I take the situation on my guild, many players before the change werent fussed anymore for swaps even if we announced every little time the sectors on both message center and discord, so we and the other active players benefited from their absence, that was the case for every guild, players with 15-20k fights per round ...
This change affected the total number of fights that could be done in a guild, and You have seen for yourself how fewer fights were did in your guild now compared to what it was before., but still, You can benefit now because it doesnt matter when you connect, you can find a decent boosted sector to do your fights in :p

The major factor and issue as it was said many times it was and remain the matchmaking, in every game if you put 2-3 top and greedy players/teams around 5-6 smaller they will beat them and keep them cornered. It is just a matter of strenght and goods here, similar is going with GbG, guilds arent matched by their power, there are guilds from platinum where they had some more sectors taken than the others and advanced to diamond and were matched with the lions ...
 
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King Flush

Marquis
And you continue to ignore my actual facts - I'm a mid level in a large guild that 99% of the time dominates the map - and set's up strategic alliances to allow more swapping.
In the first two seasons my number of fights tripled (let me say that again so you understand - TRIPLED) over the average for the prior 5 seasons. In both seasons after the change I had my highest totals ever in Beta.

Those aren't uninformed opinions - those are demonstratable facts.
and that proves nothing! post nerf you can't do many fights that's fact, if your fights have tripled you did F all before, imagine you were/are in one of the guilds who choose not to gather your guild mates to come out to fight, sorry you deserve not to have many fights in that case, not a lot in life comes without putting effort in, sorry for you that you think you should be handed everything on a plate but really after your mum stops spoon feeding you as a baby most people progressively start learning this fact.
 
and that proves nothing! post nerf you can't do many fights that's fact, if your fights have tripled you did F all before, imagine you were/are in one of the guilds who choose not to gather your guild mates to come out to fight, sorry you deserve not to have many fights in that case, not a lot in life comes without putting effort in, sorry for you that you think you should be handed everything on a plate but really after your mum stops spoon feeding you as a baby most people progressively start learning this fact.
You have become very unpleasant. Insults are not necessary. As I have pointed out to you before, you are in "one of those guilds who choose not to gather your guild mates". Otherwise, the fight distribution would not be what it is. The lion's share of the battles going to a select few players (yourself included). Face facts, the top fighters in your guild, and many guilds just like yours, suck up the battles because they are more frequently on-line and better equipped - to the detriment of their fellow guildmates. If there is a saving grace from the SC/WT change it is in the knowing that players, such as yourself, will get their comeuppance.
 

Juber

Overlord
Community Manager
@Juber : when will the messages be moderated so that we can read the good ideas?
Messages in the feedback thread will be shown once the change hits live or if it is decided to revert it. Until then they will stay hidden.
All comments will be set to public, once the change is done on the live servers or if it is decided to not go forward with it and it gets reverted.
 

blueskydwg

Steward
and that proves nothing! post nerf you can't do many fights that's fact, if your fights have tripled you did F all before, imagine you were/are in one of the guilds who choose not to gather your guild mates to come out to fight, sorry you deserve not to have many fights in that case, not a lot in life comes without putting effort in, sorry for you that you think you should be handed everything on a plate but really after your mum stops spoon feeding you as a baby most people progressively start learning this fact.
LOL - what a Richard.
When confronted with facts resort to name calling. Typical response of the unprepared and overwhelmed.
 

King Flush

Marquis
You have become very unpleasant. Insults are not necessary. As I have pointed out to you before, you are in "one of those guilds who choose not to gather your guild mates". Otherwise, the fight distribution would not be what it is. The lion's share of the battles going to a select few players (yourself included). Face facts, the top fighters in your guild, and many guilds just like yours, suck up the battles because they are more frequently on-line and better equipped - to the detriment of their fellow guildmates. If there is a saving grace from the SC/WT change it is in the knowing that players, such as yourself, will get their comeuppance.
that's utter garbage, we call every single low attrition sector so all our guild mates are aware of not only open sectors but upcoming open sectors and as I've told you before fight numbers in our guild is completely down to desire, not my fault you don't listen I try as best I can to get as many guildmates involved but I can't force some of them to fight we have min requirements and these are met after which it is down to each individual.
 

King Flush

Marquis
LOL - what a Richard.
When confronted with facts resort to name calling. Typical response of the unprepared and overwhelmed.
oh but my name isn't Richard, whatever do you mean by that? absurd to make a one line response and manage to convey such hypocrisy, congratulations :D

didn't think I had but just checked back where was the name calling on my part?

I'm so 'overwhelmed' :D
 
that's utter garbage, we call every single low attrition sector so all our guild mates are aware of not only open sectors but upcoming open sectors and as I've told you before fight numbers in our guild is completely down to desire, not my fault you don't listen I try as best I can to get as many guildmates involved but I can't force some of them to fight we have min requirements and these are met after which it is down to each individual.
Cool! When this change goes live on the EN server I'll be very interested to see how the fight distribution changes for your guild. From what you are implying, everyone will see a decline and the mid-range fighters will not enjoy an increase in the number of battles. Time will tell.
 

King Flush

Marquis
I can only guarantee you'll see my fight numbers go down to zero and then I'll have had my 'comeuppance' won't I :) literally I can't wait!!

I also said for the log in once a day players they may find fights available to them that they may not have always had before, so some in the lower echelon may get some more fights, of course the distribution will be more even, the question remains should the active players not get more than those that choose to participate less and I see no argument that justifies why this should not be so.
 
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