Feedback ForgePlus

[beelzebob666]

I can't believe I need to say this but, drugs are bad mkay, drugs are bad mkaaaaaay.

50 bucks USA a month, 70 bucks a month Aussie, for that, the hell are you guys smoking if you think people will pay that much for that.

it does not matter - as long as there are people willing to pay it...

everyone has their own measure for what money is worth to them - who says Inno has to cater to the plebs (like me or you) - if they feel they can make money with the feature as it is, it is their decision...

Nobody forces you to buy it - and especially as the feature does not really provide anything that would set you appart from the other players, who cares...

On the other hand, imagine the feature would give 500% attack and defense and 1k FP per day
- it might be worth the money in the eyes of many players then, but
1) there still would only be a minority of players buying it
2) a huge majority of the player base would call Inno out for "P2W!!!"

 

[Kronan]

This announcement about ForgePlus (https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/forge-plus.15529/) is locked, BUT...

There is usually an enabled LINK embedded in the text sentence "discuss this here", that IS NOT enabled with a URL to this topic.

 

[Lydia73]

There is usually an enabled LINK embedded in the text sentence "discuss this here", that IS NOT enabled with a URL to this topic.

Maybe that means exactly what it is - "please provide your feedback here!" without Link so - provide your feedback nowhere...

 

[mcbluefire]

View attachment 7966

Still way too high an ask.

 

[Leones]

There was indeed a link to this thread missing in the announcement, but it has now been added

 

[Jules]

Well, now it is official. Still too little for too much. The feedback from the last 7 pages should be more than enough for Inno to figure out what is wrong since nothing has actually changed from the "testing" to the beta release.

 

[Kronan]

Maybe that means exactly what it is - "please provide your feedback here!" without Link so - provide your feedback nowhere...

Yup... lucky for that wink, LYdia73

NO URL to provide feedback, and a locked topic from further replies ... DO I detect a conspiracy? LOL

Nah just a technical oversight

 

[Fenix]

A story that has been around for a few years: once upon a time there was a game that decided to give some advantages to players who were willing to pay. The decision makers see fit to highlight the happy players who have invested their money. The result was to make these players perfect targets for everyone else, happy to take advantage of these players.

 

[beelzebob666]

A story that has been around for a few years: once upon a time there was a game that decided to give some advantages to players who were willing to pay. The decision makers see fit to highlight the happy players who have invested their money. The result was to make these players perfect targets for everyone else, happy to take advantage of these players.

well... afaik at least there also is the option to deactivate the highlighting of the portrait

 

[zookeepers]

Since Innogames wants constructive feedback, let's see if it will take more than 2 minutes to respond to this one.

Beyond the price (30 € or 50 € or 80 € depending on the tests) prohibitive for just supplements how about adopting these options:
- Increased forge point storage: > to be really useful to everyone, especially for old players at the end of their age, increase this limit from 1,000 to 2,000
- Collect everything for free: > to conserve
- Refresh the shop: > would be useful if one could either select a product type (example: part of a selected set) or exclude certain types (example: no decoration)
- Double emissary production: > why limit to 2 emissaries when the player has made the effort to unlock several, sometimes even for diamonds
- New avatar outline: > too bad we can't deactivate it like the appearance of the castle
- Recruitment bonus: > the reduction in recruitment time should apply to alcatraz which represents 90% of the recruitments of the majority of players
- Automatic Po/Mo: > be able to do the po/mo of all your friends in one click (and another click for the guild)
- Automatic Tavern: > be able to visit the taverns of all your friends in one click
- Buy FP in bulk: > be able to buy X FP by typing an amount of gold coins, without being blocked by the maximum of 10 FP. This will also give more importance to earning gold coins that many accumulate out of weariness of exchanging them 10 by 10.

The goal is to save players time, not to give them an unnecessary or excessive advantage.

Finally, review your price. Certainly even at 80 € you will sell some but at 5 € per month you will sell 100 times more!

I will give some alternatives.

- Finish all: Finishes all production and GBs (cooling time = 7 days)
You can double collect once every week, but that isn't the point.
You can set all the timers together, and collection time no longer drift through the day.
- Reset Aid Timer: Set Po/Mo timer to zero (cooling time = 24 hours)
You can aid your friends / guildies / neighbors twice everyday.
You will have double chance of getting BPs but more than that, people will welcome you more on the friends list.
Again, you can avoid aiding time drifting through the day, if you give up the double polish / motivate occasionally.
(auto Po/Mo should better be free)
- Increased Shop Slots: this would be better than just having the first refresh free if you'd have 12 slots.
- Decrease FP/coin ratio: Decrease FP/coin exchange rate by 1000 per day ...just to suggest

The goal is saving time, I agree, but more than saving time,
for players logging in once daily*, setting the log-in time same throughout days is more convenient.

*Many top players don't log in more than twice per day in many of their worlds except their main.

 

[mcbluefire]

A story that has been around for a few years: once upon a time there was a game that decided to give some advantages to players who were willing to pay. The decision makers see fit to highlight the happy players who have invested their money. The result was to make these players perfect targets for everyone else, happy to take advantage of these players.

...if only there were some actual advantages in the offering...
For me it would be a 5 diamonds a day savings = 140 diamonds over 28 days. GE provides way more than that every week.
If someone really wants the one free AD shop refresh thats 55 diamonds a day (including the daily collection) for a whopping 1540 diamond advantage. One could argue that 1400 diamonds goes for $20 so this almost makes sense, but who buys diamonds to get these two options (Collect all+AD Shop refresh)? When I buy diamonds it's to get expansions, additional event buildings, or map progress in the space ages.
The other minor perks do nothing that affects game play or ability to compete.

• More points on the bar accomplishes...?
• Additional 15% attack and defense from town hall? Get an event building(s).
• Additional 50 goods and 10 FP per week? Only a new account would notice that.
• 2 day antiques dealer barter? Definitely not a game changer
• One free refresh per day on AD shop? The ones I paid for with diamonds were garbage 99% of the time, so how does one for $1 a day help?
• 2 emissaries doubled output? What will I do with the 2 extra FP, troops, or goods a day?
• Frame = Please tell me about my mistake of buying this package. Don't get me wrong, it's "pretty".
• Collect productions and incidents for free. 5 diamonds a day savings for the player that already uses this. Okay the incidents is kind of nice, but when it comes to doing quests collecting ALL incidents at once could result in a set back by, for example, not being able to do two collect 5 incident quests as all 11 incidents got collected at once...

Literally this is a "noob trap" that is designed to capitalize on that, and as a new player it would be an okay one time purchase and we can all say thanks to those players for helping to keep the game running. However, there needs to be a tier for long time players and the price needs to be reduced. Many would do $3-$5 a month for some conveniences as long as it doesn't become pay to win.

 

[Kranyar the Mysterious]

well... afaik at least there also is the option to deactivate the highlighting of the portrait

Most players can't figure out / be bothered with setting a defensive army. I wonder how many would figure out how to deactivate the frame, especially since "Hey shiny! Look at ME!!!".

 

[drakenridder]

For me it would be a 5 diamonds a day savings = 140 diamonds over 28 days. GE provides way more than that every week.

Same, for cheaper I can get a longer lasting subscription providing me daily 10x that amount for a whopping 180 days vs the 28 days. Roughly 6> x longer lasting and stacking up to 9.000 diamonds. Even if I would be using daily the 5 diamonds collect all button, I’ll ending up with 8.100 diamonds to spend elsewhere in comparison.
So, for the grand price of an additional 10-20 euro, I’ll be getting a subscription that lasts 152 days less, I’m missing out on 8.100 diamonds and in return I’ll get lacklustre additional benefits from FoE+. Not so much of an good deal tbh.
In their defence, if you can call it defence, the better subscription deal appears to be an browser only offer. So, it could be argued that it is unfair to compare them 1:1.

 

[Born to be a Banana]

My thoughts on FoE Plus so far :

For what it currently offers, and as it does not revolutionize anything at all, I would not even pay 5 euros a month. I'd only consider it for smth like 20 euros a year. And I do spend money in the game. So I'm not talking as a F2P person, I would be willing to pay for it.

As we are talking about premium feature, let's keep in mind that players who would want this are active players who want either comfort in their gameplay, or quick progress. People willing to pay for something are generally gonna be active ones, so obviously, we need to consider their needs.

----------​

Let's go over it quickly (I'll try not to mention the price too much...) :

- 1000 FPs limit -

For early-game players : Useless. You have many ways to spend your harvested FPs if you get over 100, and there's still the 5 diamonds collect all button if necessary. Tbh, 5 diamonds a day isn't much for any player doing GE4 every week and a bit active in GBG.
For end-game players : Nice to have, especially if like me you can have slow 1.9 threads in your guild and a big harvest of FPs. (Though for me 1000 FP limit won't be enough ).

* My suggestion : Keep it as it is. I don't think removing the limit would be a good solution.

- Collect all for free -

Bare minimum for a premium feature. So nothing special here.

* My suggestion : Keep it as it is.

- 15% ATK/DEF for attacking army -

For early-game players : Nice to have in very early stages. Becomes meh in early stages.
For end-game players : Useless. People at this stage already have over a 1000% ATK for most of them...

* My suggestion : Start with a 5% bonus and increase it 5 by 5 every era. Bronze Age : 5% --> SAJM : 100%. Not a game-breaker imo.

- 50 goods & 10 FPs... a week ? -

For early-game players : Nice addition... Oh wait that's per week ? If it were per day, it'd be nice, per week, you're just kidding me.
For end-game players : Uh... Beyond useless. Per day would still be nice though.

* My suggestion : Make it per day. Simple as that.

- Exclusive chrono in Antiques -

Good one here. Nice addition. For everyone.

* My suggestion : Keep it.

- One free refresh of Antiques shop -

One feels low, but why not. Might consider upgrading to at least two, but that would depend on the price you pay to me. For the current price I would at least expect 3-4 refresh a day ^^

* My suggestion : Depends on the final price and format you guys decide on. But keep it.

- First 2 emissaries doubled-production -

For early-game players : Well... Since colonies are quite long to accomplish, it is useless for this category of players imo.
For end-game players : Why only the first two ? What they add is already quite low and not game-breaking.

* My suggestion : Double every of them. It's not game-breaking.

- Faster healing ? -

Don't have info on that one since I personally have the 30 euros one, and it does not include it. Maybe Innogames considers units healing faster is worth 20 euros a month ? I don't really know... It is nice for early-game, in late game you don't really care about that if you levelled up your Traz.

* My suggestion : Keep it.

- Golden cosmetic thingy -

Honestly pretty cool. If you like to flex that is. But does not bring anything to the game.

* My suggestion : Keep it. Give a way to disable it for people not wanting to show off.

----------​

Final thing is the price or rather the format it takes. Monthly subscription ? One-time purchase ? Yearly subscription ? Currently it feels like a one-time purchase to me... Though from Inno's pov, it would not be very profitable if it were. So my suggestion is to keep it a monthly one, with a way to buy it yearly (with a discount please ?).

HOWEVER ! Not as this price for god's sake... I don't know who thought it was a good idea, but I truly feel insulted by the price. There are ways to make money with a game that reward both the players and the company without insulting people. Better to lower the price, so that more people buy it and are happy with what it offers than making it expensive so only a dozen of players buy it and the vast majority are unhappy with the feature.

Even with the modifications I suggest, I would make this a 5-euro monthly subscription, being 50 euros yearly. And please keep in mind lots of 5-to-10-euros monthly subscriptions offer much more than that (Amazon Prime, Crunchyroll, Netflix, PSN, EA Play...).

So please try not to scam us, we are not *that* stoopid

I'm pretty sure my suggestions are not game-breaking, but I haven't done any calculations, so... Any feedback is welcomed

Since the feature has not seen any changes at all from the A/B Test version I got at the time, I reiterate my suggestions.

At the moment anyone willing to buy this either has no idea how the game works, or has a lot of money to spend.

 

[qaccy]

At the moment anyone willing to buy this either has no idea how the game works, or has a lot of money to spend.

Short version: This feature isn't for forum users. It's for the people who are gonna ensure that it makes Inno a profit.

Long version: This is the part people seem to be missing. Like I said in another post in this thread, Inno isn't really looking to appeal to forum users with this feature. ForegPlus is intended for players who look at the benefits provided and not only think they're good as-is, they're more than willing and able to pay those prices for them. These players rarely interact with others, especially outside the game, so the forums tend to not even realize they exist. But you can even look at your own neighborhoods, guilds, and friend lists in-game and consider that you're probably the only one across all three of them that uses the forums. That begins to put into perspective just how many other players there are, and how small a minority the forum users are.

 

[Thunderdome]

Inno isn't really looking to appeal to forum users with this feature.

Don't forget, those forum users are players. We went to the game first before we even know that there was a forum on it. And many of us either had right clicked the game screen (large majority that did this) or clicked on the Forum button after our first visit to the game.

Also, don't forget, that some forum users on here are players in their respective servers/worlds. I play on a live world (us server) and I would tell my guild mates there about the upcoming things and which to avoid. It's up to them to make their own choice.

And finally, don't forget that many of us might be on Facebook in that little page or group of theirs. Social media is a very dangerous animal. With it is how wild fires are started and spread.

But in all seriousness (and after putting in my Bob Marley comment on Facebook), no smart person is going to pay $30+ a month without smoking something. Other games for their VIP services (and/or privileges) charge $4.99 to $9.99 a month.

 

[qaccy]

@Thunderdome I believe you may be taking my label of 'forum user' a bit out of context. Of course many forum users are players, but the message I want to stress is that most players are  not forum users. It doesn't matter if the forum doesn't like ForgePlus and thinks it's a waste of money/overpriced. That Inno has gone ahead with releasing this feature and 'ignoring' the feedback from the forum should be enough to convince anyone that they already see the money they're going to make from players who, as I said, think the bonuses are actually worth paying for as they currently are. You may not like it, you may disagree, but it's the truth.

 

[Kranyar the Mysterious]

@Thunderdome I believe you may be taking my label of 'forum user' a bit out of context. Of course many forum users are players, but the message I want to stress is that most players are  not forum users. It doesn't matter if the forum doesn't like ForgePlus and thinks it's a waste of money/overpriced. That Inno has gone ahead with releasing this feature and 'ignoring' the feedback from the forum should be enough to convince anyone that they already see the money they're going to make from players who, as I said, think the bonuses are actually worth paying for as they currently are. You may not like it, you may disagree, but it's the truth.

Might be, but I just looked through all my worlds, and between friends lists, guilds, and neighborhood, and for all of the roughly 1200-1500 active players in those lists there is a grand total of 7 gold frames. That alone is pretty telling.

 

[xivarmy]

@Thunderdome I believe you may be taking my label of 'forum user' a bit out of context. Of course many forum users are players, but the message I want to stress is that most players are  not forum users. It doesn't matter if the forum doesn't like ForgePlus and thinks it's a waste of money/overpriced. That Inno has gone ahead with releasing this feature and 'ignoring' the feedback from the forum should be enough to convince anyone that they already see the money they're going to make from players who, as I said, think the bonuses are actually worth paying for as they currently are. You may not like it, you may disagree, but it's the truth.

You can actually see who has bought forge plus in general - because bothering to turn off the frame is unlikely. And it seems the review from the population is similar to that from the forums. Somewhere around 1 person per neighborhood from what I've seen. Perhaps more telling will be how many of those who buy it renew it though (1/80 might not be awful results if it doesn't decline in popularity)

Regardless it's not that important - if someone wants to pay too much for underwhelming benefits that's honestly preferable to people paying for very significant benefits which would come down to P2W.

 

[Thunderdome]

but the message I want to stress is that most players are  not forum users

Lead with that somewhere in there next time, lol, else you're just stating what Inno has been doing after the first two years: being like the rest of the developers in throwing gimmicks to gain an easy buck while delivering rushed subpar content.

Here's something in comparing value. I am a Playstation Plus subscriber because most of the games I play, I play with friends and with my other half. I buy the yearly subscription for 60 bucks which gives me 12 months of online multiplayer (if you divide that, it's basically 5 bucks a month). With that, I get some free games (anywhere from 20 to 60 dollar value dependent on the game) every month and as long as I am a subscriber, I can download what I want into my PS4 Pro and play them anytime. Regular monthly pricing is $9.99 a month. Not to be stingy, I buy one for my wife as well. For me, that's value.

Now, can Inno tell me besides the 1k FP storage (I collect around 200-280 FP a day with just the 5 diamond collect all button and then blow all my load onto 1.9), the collect all for free (whoop-dee-flippin'-do, I just save myself 5 diamonds since I do mine daily), and the other mediocre stuff, on why do I need something like this? They can't because they are not here to give their feedback. And they can't because they didn't dive into the game to see how many cities have evolved through the years to figure what's needed to be included so people would be enticed.