• Dear forum reader,
    To actively participate in our forum discussions or to start your own threads, in addition to your game account you need a forum account. You can
    REGISTER HERE!
    Please ensure a translation in to English is provided if your post is not in English and to respect your fellow players when posting.

Feedback Forge Bowl 2019 - Balancing Changes

  • Thread starter Retired Community Manager
  • Start date

Umbrathor

Baronet
It seems as if Inno has made changes so that a Colossos lvl 10 is achievable in the real game if you finish all quests, but not in Beta. Unless people only started doing the quests after the balancing change was implemented. Which in turn would mean that active testers lose out to late starters. That cannot be the intention.

I hope that Inno will consider a way to allow beta testers to still get the lvl 10 Colossus. But maybe they plan to let the free diamonds solve that issue?
 

DeletedUser9537

Guest
Again though I freely admit marketing is not my department. I just build the products, other people sell them.

Correct Sir!

You have combined several examples into one analogy which totally distorted what I wrote. Which is funny because I am usually the one who overthinks or over responds :p

So I will break it down for you.

An engineer is not going to design a device with 3 motors where 1 is more than sufficient. Doing so would make a larger product with a higher cost, resulting in a more expensive consumer product.

END OF ENGINEERING ANALOGY
Now onto the automobile Analogy...

Most consumers can not afford the high-end luxury 50K vehicle, but those who can? Have a predetermined expectation that the car will have lots of little perks and special accessories. Like Butt warmers and wiper blades on the headlights...

When you have all of the fluff already included with the first purchase? There are no items to trigger impulse purchases or upgrades.

But when a consumer buys a "generic" 20K car? The consumer has countless "more likely" future impulse purchase options, spread over time...

END OF AUTOMOBILE ANALOGY
The consumer who cares less about initial cost over luxury that buys the 50K car wants a "One and Done" transaction. A Turn key and go "Low Maintenance" product. They do not want to keep paying for more.

END OF 50K CONSUMER ANALOGY
The cost-conscious consumer who looks for the best bang for their buck? The one who buys the 20K car. Does so with a plan to take care of their investment, make it their own, buy sporty rims and/or tires, high-performance air filters/breathers, chrome accessories... But not all at once... Over time as they can afford to.

Then, of course, there are the vehicle maintenance schedules, 50K, 100K, 200K repairs... Maybe a sunroof or custom paint job, an aftermarket high-gloss clearcoat... Maybe a high-performance aftermarket audio/video system.

END OF 20K ANALOGY
Or a much simpler way to look at things :D

When a business can develop a product which has no physical form, no tangible feel, no resale value... A "thing" that you cannot hold in your hands, or smell or taste...

And yet they can still get people to pay real money for it... Lots of real money...

:eek:

Well... I'll let you think on that one :p
 

Thunderbummy

Marquis
No, and it won't need to be :)

The closer to the end we get, the less confidence I have in your statement. The bronze entry level, which I will need to get to level 10 looks to be already out of reach. I have been recording the yards given against the balls required and at current rates I will not make bronze status without spending diamonds. There must be many players holding off spending until very close to the end. This inevitably will push the bronze entry level even higher. Therefore I regret to say that in my humble opinion, an upgrade pack will need to be a daily special for me to have any chance of getting to level 10.
 

Feanor II

Baronet
Or a much simpler way to look at things :D

When a business can develop a product which has no physical form, no tangible feel, no resale value... A "thing" that you cannot hold in your hands, or smell or taste...

And yet they can still get people to pay real money for it... Lots of real money...

:eek:

Well... I'll let you think on that one :p

I frankly don't understand how you can get this right and get everything else so wrong. You keep using this car analogy, in great detail about manufacturing cost, maintenance schedules, accessories, etc. It's completely misplaced for a couple reasons:

1. You keep talking about the difference between different cars (costs, maintenance, etc.) This doesn't hold here because there are not different cars, unless you're talking about a difference between different levels of the Colossus. If you're making a claim from a player perspective to be satisfied with a lower-level Colossus as opposed to a fully-leveled one, your analogy holds. If we're talking about a fully-leveled one, it fails because the Level-10 Colossus (which is what we're talking about) is the "50k car". And if players are satisfied with the lower-level Colossus and don't spend to upgrade it (i.e. buy the 50k car) then Inno loses their profit, which is exactly my point. We're getting the 20K car for free, Inno has to convince us to buy the 50k. And if they're real good, get us to buy more than one 50k. There is no 20k/50k deal here since there's only one product we're talking about buying (Level 10 Colossus/Colossus Upgrades). Obviously, no is going to intentionally pay to build a 20k car/lower-level Colossus because you get it for free anyway.

2. In the above-cited quote, you seem to grasp the idea that the manufacturing cost is zero, but you're not applying it. Supply and demand are twisted here since supply is unlimited due to your manufacturing cost being zero. While it's true that restricting supply drives up demand, if you restrict it too far you end up losing business. Since you're having trouble connecting the idea of cars to the event, think of it this way. You have an unlimited supply of something, let's call them widgets. These widgets cost you $0.00 each to build*. If you go too low on the price, you'll sell a ton of them and will certainly make a profit, though somewhat depreciated by the lower price. Likewise, if you price too high, you'll only sell a couple, but you'll make a lot off each individual one. The more you push the price up, the less you'll sell. However, there's a "sweet spot" of balancing them that will maximize your profit. So, hypothetically, let's say you could sell 100 widgets for $2.00 each and make $200, or you could sell 50 at $5.00 each and make $250, or you could sell 10 at $10.00 each and make $100. It's all a balancing act of how much people will pay for your zero-cost item. In my opinion they've pushed too far toward the "10 at $10.00" end of the curve.

I may not be too good with marketing, but I do understand basic economics.

*-note that the same basic logic of profit applies even if manufacturing cost is above zero; however, a zero-cost item is the most extreme form of profit, which you do seem to be grasping. Now apply what I've explained about maximizing profit by striking the best balance of keeping both price and consumer base up and I think you'll see what I'm talking about.
 

DeletedUser9537

Guest
OK, I will not tell you how to Engineer... You don't tell me how to Market or Merchandise... Deal?

You must be an Electrical Engineer... Yes?

Look... There are two basic kinds of players "Those who Pay... Up to Whales (pay A LOT)... Those would be the 50K car buyers. The fact you cannot connect those analogies? Well, that is why you are not in Merchandising or Marketing... Hmm?

Those who "Play to Earn" would not spend 50K on a car because of a variety of reasons... Mostly because while butt warmers and wipers on headlights are a "Novelty" they serve no practical purpose and do not warrant spending so much.

You're whole argument centers around wanting to be able to "Buy" something that otherwise takes an effort to build. I presume you are not used to the word "no" when you want something? Probably blame the clerk at the gas Station because the price is higher then you think it should be?

way-uneven-scale.png

No business is going to create such an imbalance. Ten percent get what they want while the other 90% cannot compete so give up and leave... Not going to happen. You earn more with Nickels and Dimes than you do Dollars.
 

DeletedUser9410

Guest
The way i see it is that they have given you something for free. Then said you can improve it by doing a few things ( at no extra cost )
But if you want it at its best ( all the bells and whistles ) Its going to probably cost you, ( unless you're very lucky ) and the issue is the cost.
They have overpriced their item to such an extent that even the people who would normally be prepared to pay for these upgrades are saying "No way, its too expensive " So here is where they have shot themselves in the foot. They have priced themselves out of the market, and if they want to make money on the live server they are going to have to review their pricing strategy.
Even worse ( perhaps ) is they have said, "you can only have one, irrespective of how much money you can spend.
People spend money in this type of situation to improve their own game, to give them an advantage or just out of pride.
They say it might unbalance the game if people had more than one. HOW???? The main people who would pay for it are already Way more advanced because they could afford to buy lots of other stuff over the years which already give them a huge advantage. ( i dont begrudge them this, they could afford it and good for them ) Its Inno's attitude towards this i find intriguing. They could make more money by lowering their price and offering more than 1 , yet they dont. Im not a businessman but that does not make sense to me.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Feanor II

Baronet
OK, I will not tell you how to Engineer... You don't tell me how to Market or Merchandise... Deal?
No. Prove me wrong. If you could present evidence a system I built had a flaw you should point it out regardless of my occupation.

You must be an Electrical Engineer... Yes?
OK that's impressive.

Look... There are two basic kinds of players "Those who Pay... Up to Whales (pay A LOT)... Those would be the 50K car buyers. The fact you cannot connect those analogies? Well, that is why you are not in Merchandising or Marketing... Hmm?
Considering you haven't finished your analogy, you probably shouldn't be jumping to a conclusion lest you say something stupid. BTW, you haven't completed your first analogy, so saying "analogies" is a misnomer.

Those who "Play to Earn" would not spend 50K on a car because of a variety of reasons... Mostly because while butt warmers and wipers on headlights are a "Novelty" they serve no practical purpose and do not warrant spending so much.
We can argue over whether a 4x4/6FP/ATK boost is simply a novelty, but the one fact that's indisputable is that Level-10 Colossus is the only product we're discussing. This is a point that you constantly refuse to address in your "analogies". Let me help you with a little structure:

50K car=Colossus Level 10/Colossus Upgrades
20K car=[fill in this blank or your analogy falls apart]

You're whole argument centers around wanting to be able to "Buy" something that otherwise takes an effort to build.
FLAT. OUT. FREAKING. WRONG. Effort is not an issue here. It is mathematically impossible to acquire more than one without paying no matter how much effort you put in. You can average 1,000 mouse clicks per hour during the whole Event, you won't succeed. But please, try. I'll have a good laugh at your expense.

I presume you are not used to the word "no" when you want something? Probably blame the clerk at the gas Station because the price is higher then you think it should be?[
No, because I've dealt with customers in one form or another since I was 14 and I sympathize with them having to deal with idiots all day.

View attachment 3693

No business is going to create such an imbalance. Ten percent get what they want while the other 90% cannot compete so give up and leave... Not going to happen. You earn more with Nickels and Dimes than you do Dollars.
That's pretty much what I said previously:
If you go too low on the price, you'll sell a ton of them and will certainly make a profit, though somewhat depreciated by the lower price. Likewise, if you price too high, you'll only sell a couple, but you'll make a lot off each individual one. The more you push the price up, the less you'll sell. However, there's a "sweet spot" of balancing them that will maximize your profit. So, hypothetically, let's say you could sell 100 widgets for $2.00 each and make $200, or you could sell 50 at $5.00 each and make $250, or you could sell 10 at $10.00 each and make $100. It's all a balancing act of how much people will pay for your zero-cost item. In my opinion they've pushed too far toward the "10 at $10.00" end of the curve.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with a visual representation regarding the exact issue I was talking about. You even took my statement about a "balancing act" and used it to create a scale as said visual. Very original.

You've got the scale pretty much correct. I think you're off slightly, they haven't gone THAT far towards the high-price end of the balance. But you at least have the orientation correct.

Your labels are flat-out wrong on the scale:
Wants, Stuff vs. earn: This is ridiculous, "stuff" is an object and "earn" is the verb/method. We all want to "earn" the "stuff". However, there is a mathematical limit to how much "stuff" we can "earn" which is the whole point of this thread!
Needs, Now vs. Challenge: First of all, these are just more "wants", not "needs". Secondly, it's incredibly presumptive on your part. You're assuming that people willing to spend money getting more than one Colossus-10 don't want a challenge, which is undercut by the previously stated fact that it's mathematically impossible to do it, no matter how skilled, lucky, etc. you are. Furthermore, they're not mutually exclusive. It's a challenge to complete the quests as fast as possible.
Like, Spending vs. Accomplishment: Again, extremely presumptive on your part since no one has made the argument that they want to spend money in place of doing quests, which is what you're constantly implying. The issue at hand is ONLY pricing of that which cannot be acquired by gameplay, not due to lack of effort but simply mathematical impossibilities of the game and how to set the pricing to bring about maximum profit for Inno.
 

FrejaSP

Viceroy
The Classic Garden. Is it just me, or is it not relly worth the the space it take.
It look nice, but I choose not to get any of the pieces for it and won't on live server.
 

DeletedUser9410

Guest
The Classic Garden. Is it just me, or is it not relly worth the the space it take.
It look nice, but I choose not to get any of the pieces for it and won't on live server.

The bonuses do stack, so i have 2 pools, 1 statues and 1 patio placed together, this takes a 6x4 space. but gives me 10% extra atk and 8% extra def. ( NOTE, the atk boost is with attacking troops only and the def is given to city def troops only ) as well as the coin and supply boosts.
I still have another pool in inventory which i cant really place without messing up the dynamics of my other buildings, so i will have to wait until i get more expansions before working out how best to use it.
If a can get another patio or statues then i will be happy making a plan to fit it in.

Personally i think it could work out very big and awkward but i do like the extra boosts.
( it would be much better if it gave medals or fp as well, but one should accept we cant always have everything we would like )
Obviously this is just me personally, others may have different views.

What i do on the live server will depend on how many i get and of course available space in my city there.
 

LordVaderIII

Marquis
I'm going to end up finishing my Colossus but I did spend a few diamonds. I'm currently at level 9 and I'll get my 50 quest upgrade and most likely get two upgrades from finishing in silver. Without spending those diamonds, I wouldn't have finished in silver and it's possible I wouldn't have finished in bronze either which would have left me with a level 9 Colossus.

It's also very possible that, once the event goes live, you may not be able to finish in bronze without spending diamonds which would leave you with a level 9 Colossus.

I think the window is a little too tight to finish a level 10 Colossus without spending diamonds.
 

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
The Classic Garden. Is it just me, or is it not relly worth the the space it take.
It look nice, but I choose not to get any of the pieces for it and won't on live server.

As an attack boost provider it takes a bit more space than the best options, but attack boost has reasonable rarity so you might take it anyways. The coin and supply boost are at least something to make up for some of the extra space.

Context (space used includes half road on one side (two sides for cherry):
Colossus (VF) : ~1.3 squares / 1% attack boost
Contestant's Estate : ~2.3 squares / 1% attack boost (a typical efficiency for a standalone attack boost building you can get multiple of)
Level 2 Cherry Set : ~3.0 squares / 1% attack boost (can be improved further with other layouts for multiple sets, attack boost is hardly the whole point)
Double Elephant Fountain Set (VF) : ~3.1 squares / 1% attack boost (worse in lower ages)
Strike Team Center : ~3.4 squares / 1% attack boost

Double Pool Garden Set : ~2.7 squares / 1% attack boost

It's not great, but it's not disastrously bad. I'm still undecided whether or not I'm going for them on live (partly leaning yes because i don't need things like SoKs anymore and need *something* to go for)
 

DeletedUser1418

Guest
Well... here we have another "unfinishable event" when it comes to constructing the mail prize. Like the Tholos of Idols and Pillar of Heroes of thepast FoE football games, it is not possible to finish the statue, including using the 1000 diamond we gotten at the start of event. So what do you want Inno? Everybody buy 50 bucks worth of worthless diamonds to make 2 touchdowns? This is really demotivating to see half-build buildings in cities without the option to get any upgrade pieces during or after the event. You really need to balace the event so that loyalty and patience of event players get the main reward finished. I fancy skipping this event on live... saves me loads of time!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
After finally spending all my footballs, including the last upgrade from the quests, I'm probably only going to get to lvl 9. I have a chance to get my last upgrade from league rewards but history says I shouldn't rely on that. I'm not a fan of relying on other people's failures to gain rewards, I'd rather be rewarded for my efforts. Undecided if I'll keep the unfinished building since the scaffolding looks tacky as hell. Since I blew all my diamonds on the winter event, I will also probably skip this event when it goes live.

Not really mad though, I'm a Lions fan I'm used to losing.
 

DeletedUser9537

Guest
:D Wow... You really enjoy being right, don't you? And... Having the last word...

However and this will be my last word on this... You have demonstrated a few things.

That you are bad at playing connect the dots.
You do not like being wrong.
You need to have the last word.

But in all your Blah Blah Blah you have failed to demonstrate any skills...

Whereas I? Just by reading a few of your written words, have determined by context a fact verified by you...

Which is a win that I will take... :p

You must be an Electrical Engineer... Yes?

OK that's impressive.

;) Anything else I sussed out is for my own amusement...
 

DeletedUser9410

Guest
Am undecided about the Classic Garden for live servers, i dont think i will go after them specifically, however if i get parts of it, i will see what to do with it. I do like it, but feel it will be too big and have awkward layout. (even with 4 pieces its 6X4 which i feel is very big for what it gives )
Colossus... Highly unlikely i will get it full here, even spending a few diamonds, not sure if i was unlucky, played bad, or Inno just made it bad, will be lucky to stay bronze league as it is, so another upgrade there is also highly unlikely, either way i will probably do the event on live servers, but just for fun.
Hopefully they will change it on live, will just have to wait and see.
 

DeletedUser1418

Guest
I have a chance to get my last upgrade from league rewards but history says I shouldn't rely on that. I'm not a fan of relying on other people's failures to gain rewards, I'd rather be rewarded for my efforts.

EXACTLY my point. I could EVEN loose if people buys diamonds. How sick is INNO?
 
Top