Forwarded Create trades all but the guild can see

[Nisse-X]

Would like a filter for either/and create/list trades for everyone but the guild.
ex.1. I create a trade no one in my guild can see (thus a shorter and the more relevant list for them).
ex.2. I sift through all the guild trades and have the option to filter out all trades made public, ie only see the trades made specific for the guild.

(edit: ex.2 is already possible)

Reason:
1. Sometimes you must help your guild with sweeter trades (for GE etc).
2. Trading is one way to advance in this game and make a profit, but NOT on the guilds expense.

What say thee?

 

[DeletedUser]

- 1 Free trading at fair rate is one of the main reasons guilds even exist. Fair trading allows all guild members the opportunity to progress, this suggestion, if implemented would allow some guild members to have their needs met at fair rate and at the same time profit from their surplus, thus denying that surplus to their guild-mates.
It is why the majority of guild have trade rules and also why persistent unfair trades are often booted

Being in a good guild that supports you and you support is very important, and yes, fair trades are often a requirement in these types of guilds, within the guild. However, just because a player commits to a guild should not necessarily mean they commit everything they will ever have only for the benefit of guildies.
The premise of this thread suggests that their are players that still want to support their guilds and abide by their fair trade policies, but still have the opportunity to do public trades for more of a profit when they so choose. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me, but this is me we are talking about

 

[DeletedUser8859]

- 1 Free trading at fair rate is one of the main reasons guilds even exist. Fair trading allows all guild members the opportunity to progress, this suggestion, if implemented would allow some guild members to have their needs met at fair rate and at the same time profit from their surplus, thus denying that surplus to their guild-mates.
It is why the majority of guild have trade rules and also why persistent unfair trades are often booted

I do not understand your negative vote. Fair trade guilds object trades like: Offer 10 Jewels to Receive 15 Clothes, because they are unfair to the taker, these unfair trades generates surplus to the player posting it. (I know, I only join fair trading guilds at live servers, I'm Founder at more than one).

The change proposed would allow a guildmember to create this trade, but not visible by the guildmates, since he/she does not intends his guildmates to get a loss by taking the trade. The trade is intended for neighbors or friends who may need Jewels and be willing to pay extra Cloth for it. As the OP said "2. Trading is one way to advance in this game and make a profit, but not on the guilds expense." The player wants to make a profit on Cloth yes, but not at the expense of guildmates.

Then, with the extra Cloth gained outside the guild the player can place a 15 Cloth for 10 Jewels and set that trade "guild only" to "1. ... help your guild with sweeter trades (for GE etc)." .
-----
If to get the 10 Jewels needed to begin, I trade fairly in the guild 10 Ebony x 10 Jewels, or 20 Stones x 10 Jewels, why anyone in the guild object what I do with MY 10 Jewels, OUTSIDE the guild? Nobody in the guild is losing anything with them, the Jewels x Cloth trade would not be in the guild's market, no guildmate will lose Cloth with it.

 

[DeletedUser8859]

A rule about how many replies in support of a new idea here we need before I submit it for review?

Yes, If 6 Yes votes are too few, and

• we do not have a set number, and
• we do not have any rule like other forums have (EN and US, and surely other forums too) ...

Then, how many are enough to take action given our smaller community size?

• 8? 12? 25 votes?
• 5% ? 15% of active forum members?
• other figure?

 

[DeletedUser]

Let's not make it just about a number.
I care as much about the points being made in favor of something are realistic to do, and make sense to justify it. That allows me to better state the case to game design that any given idea would be a positive thing, and worth the time and effort to implement.

 

[DeletedUser8262]

The premise of this thread suggests that their are players that still want to support their guilds and abide by their fair trade policies, but still have the opportunity to do public trades for more of a profit when they so choose

The problem i have with this it that a player can get what he needs at fair rate and would then be able to trade surpluses out of sight of guildies for a profit. In a perfect world everyone would firstly accept all guild trades for a particular good before posting unfair trades for profit, but we dont live in a perfect world and the greedy among us will always go for profit if allowed to. Apply this set-up to everyone in a guild and fair trading will suffer imho

 

[DeletedUser7942]

Let's not make it just about a number.
I care as much about the points being made in favor of something are realistic to do, and make sense to justify it. That allows me to better state the case to game design that any given idea would be a positive thing, and worth the time and effort to implement.

That's kind of strange though, I mean to essentially ask of players who most undoubtedly have no idea what it would take in terms of cost, time etc. to a company to consider such in order to implement a change, all they really know is they themselves would like whatever it is being asked for. Regarding the current thing I think for as long as I have been playing players have asked for some improvement similar to this regarding trading and I suppose unless it causes some other issue I can't see who would be against the idea other than to be nitpicky or just argue the opposite for arguments sake out of internet boredom to feel superior in their own small little lives. And I think too people over react to the idea of change, they usually make more out of it than what it actually turns out to be, drama queens I tell ya lol.

I for one would like world wide trading and loosened ratio restrictions but people lose their minds at the idea, "OH GOD I'LL HAVE 50,000 PAGES OF TRADE!", yeah, I know, that's actually not a bad thing, and you know, use filters yeah?

 

[DeletedUser]

That's kind of strange though, I mean to essentially ask of players who most undoubtedly have no idea what it would take in terms of cost, time etc. to a company to consider such in order to implement a change, all they really know is they themselves would like whatever it is being asked for.

No one is expecting players to justify the business or code side of it, but the one thing I know in all my years here is our community has some very smart and savvy players that know the game and the existing mechanics very well. So they are the ones that often point out how a proposed idea may or may not fit in with an existing mechanic, or how it may affect balancing, from the player point of view.

I for one would like world wide trading

Goods shortages in the market have been a problem for quite some time, especially for high tech players. I'm not sure a world market would be a feasible solution, but as a player I think even if the available market could be a mixture of player offers from a few hoods it might be a step in the right direction.

 

[Ian Santa Claus]

how about having a filter to show fair trades only in the same way as we have one to show guild trades only, that way a player can be confidant that they won't be accidentally robbing themselves.

 

[DeletedUser7942]

No one is expecting players to justify the business or code side of it

sry, thought when you said

time and effort to implement

I took that to mean the time and effort IG would have to use to implement the idea. But it's good people try to find fault in an idea and if it would negatively affect the game but I find more often people just arguing preference and nuance usually over that of how it would actually affect the game. Like the fella above me with the "fair trade" thing, don't get me started on that one lol.

 

[DeletedUser8168]

+1

 

[DeletedUser8859]

... not a bad thing, and you know, use filters yeah?

This idea is basically asking for a new filter be implemented for trades, a filter that would allow to show a trade just to friends / neighbors, not to guildmates. If we got a "guild only" filter already, then it is not rocket science to get a "neighbor only", "friends only" or "Neighbors and Friends only" filters.

 

[DeletedUser8859]

That's kind of strange though, I mean to essentially ask of players who most undoubtedly have no idea what it would take in terms of cost, time etc. to a company to consider such in order to implement a change, all they really know is they themselves would like whatever it is being asked for.

No strange at all. The forums sections for Proposals or Ideas is an opportunity to players to suggest, discuss, vote, and propose to the developers changes to the game that players are interested to have implemented, what we see as improvement to the game. It is the developers job to analyze the proposed idea, and determine costs, time to implement, benefits for Inno / players, conflicts with other game mechanics, balancing issues, etc.

I see everyday the same thing in the RL corporate world. The Production, Quality, Human Resources or any operational department ask IS/IT to create or change a report, transaction, or screen, or implement a complete new computer application, to fulfill their particular needs. The client department asking for the change:

• does not know the details of how difficult the change will be in terms of cost, time etc., that is left to IS/IT to determine and respond if the change can be made, at what cost, timeframe, etc.
• all they really know is they themselves would like whatever it is being asked for...

Source: Me, I work as a contractor providing Computer Systems Validation services to a pharmaceuticals manufacturing company.

 

[DeletedUser7731]

+ 1 FRANCE

 

[DeletedUser7942]

This idea is basically asking for a new filter be implemented for trades, a filter that would allow to show a trade just to friends / neighbors, not to guildmates. If we got a "guild only" filter already, then it is not rocket science to get a "neighbor only", "friends only" or "Neighbors and Friends only" filters.

That's not even about what I said so not sure why you are replying to me.

 

[DeletedUser7942]

No strange at all. The forums sections for Proposals or Ideas is an opportunity to players to suggest, discuss, vote, and propose to the developers changes to the game that players are interested to have implemented, what we see as improvement to the game. It is the developers job to analyze the proposed idea, and determine costs, time to implement, benefits for Inno / players, conflicts with other game mechanics, balancing issues, etc.

I see everyday the same thing in the RL corporate world. The Production, Quality, Human Resources or any operational department ask IS/IT to create or change a report, transaction, or screen, or implement a complete new computer application, to fulfill their particular needs. The client department asking for the change:

• does not know the details of how difficult the change will be in terms of cost, time etc., that is left to IS/IT to determine and respond if the change can be made, at what cost, timeframe, etc.
• all they really know is they themselves would like whatever it is being asked for...

Source: Me, I work as a contractor providing Computer Systems Validation services to a pharmaceuticals manufacturing company.

Why are you responding that it's not strange? Did you read my comment? Yes, it is strange and please remove yourself from your job because if you miscomprehend comments on a game forum like these last two of mine then I fear for the safety of people getting pharmaceuticals with your validation skills.

 

[kleopatra911]

-1 all players (including guild members) should _know_ what another has to offer only then can she contact the dealer and request to get it at guild course

... and there is no such thing as "fair" - except at exact same conditions for production (age and #of fields/population and same adv/dis in higher ages) - but that's an old debate <g>

 

[Miepie]

-1 all players (including guild members) should _know_ what another has to offer only then can she contact the dealer and request to get it at guild course

... and there is no such thing as "fair" - except at exact same conditions for production (age and #of fields/population and same adv/dis in higher ages) - but that's an old debate <g>

Strange kind of logic, if anyone from within my guild needs anything, they place the trade on the market and then put it in the guild trade mail. They don't have to contact me 1 on 1, whole guild helps. And anyone outside my guild can choose to ignore my trades if they don't like them.

 

[DeletedUser7779]

+1

I find it useful when wanting to get goods outside the guild.
For example when guild is short on FE goods, I'd prefer a non guildie to pick my FE trades rather than a guildie.

 

[DeletedUser8859]

I mean to essentially ask of players who most undoubtedly have no idea what it would take in terms of cost, time etc. to a company to consider such in order to implement a change, all they really know is they themselves would like whatever it is being asked for.

You find strange people asking for changes in a game (software) without knowing about costs, time required, etc. Right?

Well, in the real world people ask for changes in computer generated reports, business software applications, control systems, etc. without knowing about costs, time required to accomplish them, etc. For me that is not strange, that is day to day experience.

The client (players, Operation Dept Manager, Quality Assurance Manager, Production Supervisor, etc.) do no know about costs of software changes, they know what they need. The IT Department (Inno developers, corporate or local IS/IT department (or contractor)) are the ones who can estimate the costs, feasibility, system constraints, time constraints, etc. In real world, the clients are informed later in the process how much it will cost what they are asking, not before they ask. Sometimes the cost may stop the change to be implemented and another solution is then analyzed.

Now I ask, where do you work? At your home couch / basement?

 

[DeletedUser7942]

You find strange people asking for changes in a game (software) without knowing about costs, time required, etc. Right?

Well, in the real world people ask for changes in computer generated reports, business software applications, control systems, etc. without knowing about costs, time required to accomplish them, etc. For me that is not strange, that is day to day experience.

The client (players, Operation Dept Manager, Quality Assurance Manager, Production Supervisor, etc.) do no know about costs of software changes, they know what they need. The IT Department (Inno developers, corporate or local IS/IT department (or contractor)) are the ones who can estimate the costs, feasibility, system constraints, time constraints, etc. In real world, the clients are informed later in the process how much it will cost what they are asking, not before they ask. Sometimes the cost may stop the change to be implemented and another solution is then analyzed.

Now I ask, where do you work? At your home couch / basement?

oy vey, lemme try to clear this up for you. I do not find it strange that people ask for stuff without considering the costs and time and such, matter of fact quite the opposite, they usually just are interested in what makes sense for them personally, and in gaming they don't typically think of how it might affect the game as a whole or what the costs, time, etc. are to the company and development. And though I think one ought to at least consider negative effects to the game when suggesting a change it's not really necessary and it really shouldn't be. Players should feel free to let them creative juices flow and make suggestions to such without fear of what it might do or cost as ultimately that will be up for Inno to decide.

Now, let us go back and see what I actually said. I was replying to Zarok Dai who said this;

"I care as much about the points being made in favor of something are realistic to do, and make sense to justify it. That allows me to better state the case to game design that any given idea would be a positive thing, and worth the time and effort to implement."

Now perhaps I'm misreading her comment much like you're misreading my response to it. To me she is asking that when a player makes suggestions for changes and supporters for it comment to quantify such with "realistic" and "justifiable" in order to "make the case" so the "time and effort" spent by Inno is not futile. Now I can agree to some extent with the essence here, that is, it's good to know why you want something and how that makes for a better game. However, again I personally don't think that is necessary, IG will figure that on their own, all the player really knows is that it's just something they would like. It reads to me as if to say, okay players, you want this change, now pretend like you go to Inno and have to convince them it's worth their resources to make this change. That is the part I find strange.

Now you're coming to me as if I'm saying it's strange that people ask for stuff without consideration of other things. How you came to that I do not know but that's simply not the case here.

=============

+1 to implement this change by the way, an no, I'm not gonna say why, just do it.