Feedback [Feedback] Guild Expeditions - New Rewards, Balancing Changes and 4th Difficulty

[DeletedUser16]

It is a common misconception that when feedback is not implemented it is also ignored. In fact, feedback is never ignored. It is always forwarded, discussed (not briefly) and taken into account before any final decision is made. However, despite its importance, it is not the only factor.
So if something is done in a way significantly different than what was suggested by you, it is because it was decided that way based on feedback and other factors. And not because feedback was ignored.

Just wanted to clarify that.

Have a good day!

 

[Miepie]

And who needs a motivation kit? Anybody who's played this game for a while will surely have that part of the game covered by now. Only the most incompetent of players would need those. Really, those kits should never appear on live servers, we get enough useless stuff as it is.

 

[DeletedUser6483]

It is a common misconception that when feedback is not implemented it is also ignored. In fact, feedback is never ignored. It is always forwarded, discussed (not briefly) and taken into account before any final decision is made. However, despite its importance, it is not the only factor.
So if something is done in a way significantly different than what was suggested by you, it is because it was decided that way based on feedback and other factors. And not because feedback was ignored.

Just wanted to clarify that.

Have a good day!

Well, in a way it is because if the public wants something and it is contrary to what your accountants want then we know who wins out. All of these changes makes sense from an accountant viewpoint because it is all done to sell more diamonds which is fine as you are a business but you have went about the changes, in all of your games, the wrong way and all of your games have hurt because of your decisions.

Better to give people incentive (like a carrot in front of a mule) than to go negative with changes to try and nudge them with a sledgehammer. Your games and I am only stating the obvious having played all of them except the one that died (I never heard about The Old West until a video of yours mentioned you were still updating it).

 

[Miepie]

It is a common misconception that when feedback is not implemented it is also ignored. In fact, feedback is never ignored. It is always forwarded, discussed (not briefly) and taken into account before any final decision is made. However, despite its importance, it is not the only factor.
So if something is done in a way significantly different than what was suggested by you, it is because it was decided that way based on feedback and other factors. And not because feedback was ignored.

Just wanted to clarify that.

Have a good day!

That's nice. I'm sure I'm the only one who reads it and feels like you don't take us seriously at all.

 

[DeletedUser7586]

It is a common misconception that when feedback is not implemented it is also ignored. In fact, feedback is never ignored. It is always forwarded, discussed (not briefly) and taken into account before any final decision is made. However, despite its importance, it is not the only factor.
So if something is done in a way significantly different than what was suggested by you, it is because it was decided that way based on feedback and other factors. And not because feedback was ignored.

Just wanted to clarify that.

Have a good day!

Well, if 90% want it a different way and its still done the other way, you can speak of ignorance (not just in this case, there were several examples in the past).

Well, in a way it is because if the public wants something and it is contrary to what your accountants want then we know who wins out. All of these changes makes sense from an accountant viewpoint because it is all done to sell more diamonds which is fine as you are a business but you have went about the changes, in all of your games, the wrong way and all of your games have hurt because of your decisions.

Better to give people incentive (like a carrot in front of a mule) than to go negative with changes to try and nudge them with a sledgehammer. Your games and I am only stating the obvious having played all of them except the one that died (I never heard about The Old West until a video of yours mentioned you were still updating it).

even from the 'accountant viewpoint', it doesn't make sense. how will worse prizes animate the players to spend more money ?
it's quite simple : better prizes - more diamonds spent , worse prizes - less diamonds spent
i really don't think that many players will spend diamonds for ge attempts and motivation kits (or prizes that are only half as good as the ones before)
now do the math, inno

 

[DeletedUser5160]

It is a common misconception that when feedback is not implemented it is also ignored. In fact, feedback is never ignored. It is always forwarded, discussed (not briefly) and taken into account before any final decision is made. However, despite its importance, it is not the only factor.
So if something is done in a way significantly different than what was suggested by you, it is because it was decided that way based on feedback and other factors. And not because feedback was ignored.

Just wanted to clarify that.

Have a good day!

We have also suggested time and time again that there is some sort of player counsel that can directly talk with you all. You all say you take our feedback, but you don't respond directly to the feedback we give and give the stock response of "We'll throw it to our developers". Your developers don't make business decisions! They're paid to code what business wants.

So we're back again that our feedback isn't justified to Inno as a whole and thus waters down the game, slows development progress, encourages high risk low reward, wasted time and effort (I will never forget the Military GBs being nerfed).

We want direct responses to which feedback business listened to and why they took certain actions instead of giving us market friendly bloated text that means nothing. (You all said you buffed Behemoth stats, but nerfed its defense to balance the 1 less damage it took, but still called it a huge buff anyway)

 

[DeletedUser6483]

Well, if 90% want it a different way and its still done the other way, you can speak of ignorance (not just in this case, there were several examples in the past).




even from the 'accountant viewpoint', it doesn't make sense. how will worse prizes animate the players to spend more money ?
it's quite simple : better prizes - more diamonds spent , worse prizes - less diamonds spent
i really don't think that many players will spend diamonds for ge attempts and motivation kits (or prizes that are only half as good as the ones before)
now do the math, inno

It makes sense only because an accountant is not a programmer, nor a developer, and they tell these devs that they want X amount of income increase but it is the devs who make the stupid programming decisions. Many a time I had an executive breathing down my neck as an Admin telling me they wanted something done yesterday but had they understood anything they would have known just how foolish, and unreasonable, they were being. It really is the same thing.

 

[BestWarrior]

The difficulty of the encounters was raised, it's even harder to do level 3 and you kept the damn BP's as chests rewards??? This is a really bad joke from Inno... each time worse, it's a pity... This wasn't a improvement, this blows with the GE for almost all players.

Regarding the relic prizes, in lvl 2 i've got 4 common relics. If before we had flower arbors, now we've Gates of Sun God... 4 in 4, nice job:)

 

[Sl8yer]

@Darkstar

What exactly doe you mean by "mostly easier though" in this phrase "The strength of enemy armies in some encounters was adjusted in order to make them easier/harder (mostly easier though) to defeat".

So far every fight I have done the opponents strenght is 10 to 15 up to what it was before. Who gave this brilliant feedback that has been listened to?

You sday they listened tyo all our feedback. Can you please ask them if they understood it?

 

[thephantom]

@Darkstar

What exactly doe you mean by "mostly easier though" in this phrase "The strength of enemy armies in some encounters was adjusted in order to make them easier/harder (mostly easier though) to defeat".

So far every fight I have done the opponents strenght is 10 to 15 up to what it was before. Who gave this brilliant feedback that has been listened to?

You sday they listened tyo all our feedback. Can you please ask them if they understood it?

It means that various encounters have been rebalanced - some have been made easier and some harder, and in general more encounters have been made easier. This is not specific to any era's GE, but to all of them in general. So it could be that in some eras they've been made more difficult.

All changes are not done solely on feedback, lots of analysis have also been made as to the general difficulty for players on those specific encounters where changes have been made. As an example, lots of players had difficulties in CA, participation being much lower after early encounters which points to the need to lower the difficulty there.

 

[piohh]

I can't finish Fight 48 without Dias. Sry Inno no more Round 3 in GE for me. Thats the result of your things about the Custumers.

Great Job you make...

 

[DeletedUser4254]

Just a note to the Company staff on here (a Big one at that - Please Read and convey to the powers that be)...

Most of the Players are already losing interest in GE and in the game itself, as it is, with the recent changes (RG nerfs) ...Future Era players and up, and those without crazy High level Gbs are losing units at a much faster rate already with the current boosted armies in GE. If there's any attempt to make things any more harder in GE for the players what little GE is being played will also stop, killing the whole concept of GE soon. Tavern boosts are mostly useless - Only one which can be used for GE but gives only attack boost without any boost in the defense. Having any amount of attack boost is not going to help in GE as our units keep getting killed. In my guilds on 2 worlds most of them have stopped playing GE as it's turning out to be very costly and time consuming for them. Same case with many guilds i know of.

None of these changes are really worth to make a player interested in continuing to play GE. You are not giving something better than what we already had in the game... Its either the same features as the prevailing one's with additional space requirement or in most cases worse than them. A few new items (Motivation kits, Extra Attempts) introduced are not even worth mentioning. All that players were asking for, was only to change the Final reward of giving out ToR BPs to something better after completing Level 3 of GE. And we get all these useless stuff just because of asking that ???

IMHO none of the advanced players need anymore buildings. Most of them can't have even if they wished to as most of their space in their city has been taken over by GBs... All that's left in this game now for them is to level their GBs as high as possible for which they need FPs . The hope of getting 100 FPs and 20FPs from relics was what actually kept most of them still interested in playing GE and that's the exact thing you are trying to nerf now with these changes.

The players need something new to boost their interest to make them play GE more and the Game itself, not the same old stuff with just new art / graphics needing more space to build. GE when started was an interesting and a good concept. Many players were happy and interested with it. Changes to troops recently brought in the first discomfort for players and now with these changes It will be all going downhill now for sure. So please stop changing whats been already there and accepted by the players, instead give us something new to cheer about.

Please do consider all this and do give a better thinking before bringing these changes onto the live servers.

Thank you for reading a very Long message.

Best regards

ddevil

 

[DeletedUser5160]

It means that various encounters have been rebalanced - some have been made easier and some harder, and in general more encounters have been made easier. This is not specific to any era's GE, but to all of them in general. So it could be that in some eras they've been made more difficult.

All changes are not done solely on feedback, lots of analysis have also been made as to the general difficulty for players on those specific encounters where changes have been made. As an example, lots of players had difficulties in CA, participation being much lower after early encounters which points to the need to lower the difficulty there.

I gave you guys the analysis. The previous highest buff enemies got was 110/110 in Lvl 3 GE AF. I told you that casual players will maybe match that if CDM/CoA/Zeus were at lvl 11 but I heard you turned it up to 120/120. That would require a combined military GB lvl total of around 75. (11 for each GB with a 3% growth each level + 42 with a 1% growth every other level). If you are all hoping the attack% from military buildings would be enough, it isn't. Attackers need defense too and the only way to get it is by buffing our GBs up.

It is clear you all didn't listen and skimmed over most of those that provide numbers for you and are so deeply invested in the game you all provide.

 

[DeletedUser4478]

Much improvement, just one omission, there is not yet a 2by1 structure giving 8% attack

Attack alone ?.
A lot of attack% does not serve from 150.
Attack and defense are needed.

 

[DeletedUser6483]

I gave you guys the analysis. The previous highest buff enemies got was 110/110 in Lvl 3 GE AF. I told you that casual players will maybe match that if CDM/CoA/Zeus were at lvl 11 but I heard you turned it up to 120/120. That would require a combined military GB lvl total of around 75. (11 for each GB with a 3% growth each level + 42 with a 1% growth every other level). If you are all hoping the attack% from military buildings would be enough, it isn't. Attackers need defense too and the only way to get it is by buffing our GBs up.

It is clear you all didn't listen and skimmed over most of those that provide numbers for you and are so deeply invested in the game you all provide.

Thank you as this is why I was having a heck of a time in GE in FE because I really didn't have an issue with Offense (though I brought it up on these forums and was told to get those 4 or 5 barracks I destroyed my city for so I could get more attack) it was my Defense. The only thing I had to help me in that area was my railguns and I used them as tanks to absorb the blows while I could use my other troops while they were concentrating on the RGs. Then Inno nerfs the RGs so even a fast TE kills them in two shots and I no longer could even make it to fight 28 anymore. Matter of fact level 1 seemed like I was fighting the middle of level 2 and it was because there is nothing to get that defense up but those three GBs and now they made stuff even harder?

 

[DeletedUser6705]

And who needs a motivation kit? Anybody who's played this game for a while will surely have that part of the game covered by now. Only the most incompetent of players would need those. Really, those kits should never appear on live servers, we get enough useless stuff as it is.

I would go further than that - that kit is not useless, it's actually harmful, as it removes the chance for other players to get BPs / goods. Therefore if used too often by too many players this will reduce aiding in the long run.

 

[DeletedUser6705]

It is a common misconception that when feedback is not implemented it is also ignored. In fact, feedback is never ignored. It is always forwarded, discussed (not briefly) and taken into account before any final decision is made. However, despite its importance, it is not the only factor.
So if something is done in a way significantly different than what was suggested by you, it is because it was decided that way based on feedback and other factors. And not because feedback was ignored.

Just wanted to clarify that.

Have a good day!

Yes, presumably the potential for diamond sales will always outweigh players feedback... just keep in mind that players still need to enjoy the game if you want them to keep spending ...

I never thought I would say this, but with all the tosh that came into the game in the last year (harbour, a whole age that doesn't need goods from lower ages and hence stifles intra-guild trading, goods that can only be traded for diamonds (prom), tavern, and now the latest changes to GE) I would probably have already quit, if I wasn't leading a guild. So still some time to go to find a successor.

 

[DeletedUser5160]

I would go further than that - that kit is not useless, it's actually harmful, as it removes the chance for other players to get BPs / goods. Therefore if used too often by too many players this will reduce aiding in the long run.

I completely forgot about this. And with the motivate all, no one will get an aid in.

 

[DeletedUser5429]

Expedition level 4 finished.

What is there to say?
1. It's very expensive: to unlock the level, the many units you lose, the cost of the negociations (I could not fight the last fights, I only have +166 / +125% att/def ).
2. The rewards are not rewarding enough as an incentive to me. Even though I got two terrace farms (each gives 5 FPs a day), they are big, so big, too big.
3. The main point (which is totally subjective) is that it does not feel rewarding. I don't get the feeling to have accomplished something, and I certainly didn't get any reward I like or need.
Conclusion: I'm likely not to do level 4 often.

 

[DeletedUser6076]

First time in a long while I've done GE in beta and for my part, it's not been that bad (or at least not yet). I've stayed in CE to build up attack GBs and that boost together with the extra attempts have meant I've rattled thru levels 1 and 2 quickly and now onto L3. Those extra attempts ARE useful for some of us. With limited time to play, I get frustrated that my 8 goes in my main city are often pretty much all I actually get to do on a Tues with another 8 Weds and so on. These extra attempts are great and anyone wanting to try L4 will surely need them, won't they?

Having won a Sun Gate and the Tribal thing (a rotated oasis), yes they are similar to other buildings and will not be needed in my AF city but they're free and can sit in the inventory until they might (if ever) be of use. And even that motivation kit ... I'd use it on a HoF if it was due to collect and hadn't already been got. Anyone building a ToR should have realised we'd end up with shed loads of items that we neither needed or wanted. Remember when it first started, people were moaning about no rewards at all !!

As for the other bits, I'll wait and see but personally I'd like a 1-down kit since we have a 1-up kit; mainly cos I upgraded TE champs to FE and now we're thinking of doing TE GvG .. my bad I know but I can't be the only one

And L4 it's just too costly, especially as so few will be able to attempt it let alone complete it. As leader of a guild there is absolutely no way I will unlock L4 for the biggest hitters to give it a go and I am one of those players. We've already decided there's more fun to be had and less troops to be lost by attacking on the GvG maps; yes some of us still do that