Feedback Postponement of Guild Perks

[conqueror9]

This is beta world, which Inno use it to test new features

spending 3 weeks for test 1 perk is absolute non-sense
Inno should find out which perk set-up is "fitting player need"

so in beta world, they should allow tester to do more test on "more more different perks" at the same time in stage 1
..
in future, stage n... "amount of perks" that can allow to run together can be tune down

I hope in coming "re-start perk"
inno should raise 30 times much much much higher to allow more more perks to be open to test

 

[drakenridder]

Try to explain this Inno. Because in the current version, unlocking a perk at level 3 requires the participation of all guild members daily for 2 weeks. It's math. Otherwise, you will either not have time to get level 3, or you will not have time to admire the results of collective work. Or- drumroll - someone can make donations additionally. It is only necessary to upgrade the attempts for 1200 diamonds. Come on, convince Inno to change this scheme. Now is the time. So they have returned it for revision. I'm sure they'll listen to you

Friendly reminder that the bullets points I've made earlier, which have been forwarded, included the removal of the 30 donations / member limit. Looking beyond that I stick with my opinion: no need for another infinite positive feedback loop for exploiters. Much better for the established members the bigger chunk of the perk levels. Rather then just rewarding exploiters more then now.

 

[jovada]

Aren't you tired of seeing GBG around every corner?

Yes i'm tired to see GbG around every corner , that is why we ask for more balance so every aspect of the game has his value, but of course i understand that if you are a greedy fp farmer you don't want it.

 

[Owl II]

Yes i'm tired to see GbG around every corner , that is why we ask for more balance so every aspect of the game has his value, but of course i understand that if you are a greedy fp farmer you don't want it.

I don't want you to hang labels, for starters. No need to get personal. There is no constructive in this

 

[Owl II]

Friendly reminder that the bullets points I've made earlier, which have been forwarded, included the removal of the 30 donations / member limit. Looking beyond that I stick with my opinion: no need for another infinite positive feedback loop for exploiters. Much better for the established members the bigger chunk of the perk levels. Rather then just rewarding exploiters more then now.

Great! tell us how do you plan to protect perks from exploits and exploiters if the limit of 30 donations is canceled?

 

[Owl II]

Although it is not necessary. No sane person will spend even a coin on this if the content of the perks remains the same

 

[one day flower]

1) Perks.
I highly regret the withdrawal of perks. We put a lot of goods in them, and they are now gone. The rewards for the second series of perks were too high imho, and there should be more variety in them. A lot of suggestions have been made, but only a few players suggestions were taken up because they managed to draw vptes, as they were on the 1rst page and probably managed to get votes from their guilds.

The idea of working together on shared perks for all participants is a great idea. I feel this should be stimulated more. I was glad this is a none-combat option where the more peaceful players - the builders and traders - can contribute.
I like OWL's suggestion to make more levels, but not his suggestion to mine things in GBG. I can accept negative aspects, if it encourages guilds to specialize. Guilds wihich are great in trading at the cost of building, guilds which are great in defending at the cost of trade, guilds which are great in trade at the cost of attack, and so on. Make it 10 levels at least.

2a) GBG balancing: Imho the diamant league: (900-1000) has too small a range.
I see guild promote from platina to 1000 DP, and getting mauled by the top-10 guilds. They don't stand a chance, score close to 0 points, and get sent back to platina. If the diamant league is expanded to a range of 900 - 1200 DP, guilds can move around in the diamant league, and have much more opponents which are close to them in power.

2b) GBG balancing: Another thing to make maps more balanced is to reward the areas in the center with points, as it is now, but to provide space for more siege camps along the edge of the map.

3) the "cure everything" button: I don't know what the question is, but I think you can delete this button for experienced players. Can't you make a setting with which players can hide this button?

 

[drakenridder]

Great! tell us how do you plan to protect perks from exploits and exploiters if the limit of 30 donations is canceled?

Simple, members pay from their stocks. This is not an infinite positive feedback loop as while it’s possible to stocking up large numbers of goods, they are numbered. Unlike the GbG armies with 0% bonuses and endless feedback loop. Which has no limit. Perks have hard limits:
1.) Maximum achievable lvl
2.) Player’s stocks are numbered

GbG exploits:
1.) No attrition = no or very few losses / battle = infinite battles = infinite rewards
2.) 4h protection swap exploit = no other guilds can do anything but sit and watch
Pre-SC GbG:
Attrition levels rising until you can’t fight anymore = daily fights are numbered = limited number of daily rewards

As you’ve said before, simple math. The same math that enables the endless stream of rewards from guilds that using it, for some members to proudly brag about. Though there’s nothing to be proud of if you have to exploit an mechanic.

So, the better question is: how can u work around a numbered amount of resources and levels as where in GbG there are no limits…

 

[Yekk]

Although it is not necessary. No sane person will spend even a coin on this if the content of the perks remains the same

THIS INNO... Juber write the above 50 times and then hand that to your bosses.

The original choices of perks was bad, the second grouping worse. Perks need to do something. Not just return the original donations or help defenses that have no chance of winning... They must last more than a few days. They should add a new direction to playing the game.

V1 and V2 did not do this. They were PvP Arena all over. An addition that for lack of words just plain blows.

TO THE POSTERS HERE. Inno needs suggestions on what perks should do. Plus our in fighting works against us. The game is multi faceted. We can all win if we hang together. Inno will see us as bumpkins if we don't.

 

[one day flower]

Some more thoughts about perks:
- a limit on daily donations was a good idea.
- our 7 member guild managed to do 3 L1 perks in one 3-week round with only 2 players contributing. That was nice.
- limiting perks to level 3 seems a bit low. Higher levels should make them more interesting.

 

[DEADP00L]

The advantages of guilds should consider a few points:
- donations must be inversely proportional to the member's age; the lower the age, the more the donation will see a multiplier of points (to encourage guilds to integrate small ages)
- the advantages must not disappear after a certain time but lose in% of efficiency without continual donations (so the investment would no longer be lost)
- the advantages must not generate individual gains but systematically collective (therefore give bonuses in Gex, GbG, GvG, ...)
- the disadvantages must be proportionally the same for all members and according to their age (a penalty on goods, gold and merchandise will be of no consequence for any player after FUTURE)
- since an advantage will be attributed to ALL members of a guild, ALL members must participate (this will re-bond between members and generate group dynamics)
- like the castle, the benefit levels must take a long time to access but just as long to stay in place.
- by integrating all these preceding criteria, it is better to limit the number of possible advantages to make them more effective. I will even see different types of specializations that guilds could display in their description to guide future recruitments.

 

[one day flower]

Something the perks was missing is a visual representation. Show a building or village or the inside of a library where every level raised means a better filled series of books or halls. That makes it more appealing. I liked the idea that aside from GBG (mainly fighting), GvG (only fighting), GE (combat or trading) guilds had a 4th thing to work on together.

ideas for new perks:
a - In GBG a guild gets additional building spaces (1, 2, 3 etc, depending on perk level) in sectors adjacent to its starting sector. These extra places are not available to other guilds. So any siege camp over the normal limit is automatically eliminated if its taken. The 1, 2 and 3 are distributed over all adjacent provinces.
b - In GE a guild may open an extra 5th level withe 2, 4, 6, 8 etc engagements depending on Perk level.
c - In GvG a guild might gain an advantage by adding a % to the support pool.
d - What about a Perk with which guilds get a % extra on their Prestige Bonus, allowing a guild to grow faster??
e - What about a Perk that gives a % extra on their result of the GE (the part that goes into raising a guilds level)?
f - What about a Perk that gives Guilds an extra % on their completing % of GE? So Guilds may finish above 133%, with a for example a guild with this level at 10 might end at 143% instead of 133%?
g - What about a Perk that allows a guild to accept more members (with a guild with this perk at 10 allowing 90 instead of 80 members)
h - Or a Perk that lowers the number of points required for a new guild level by x%
i - In GBG, guild may put a 'fine' on 1 other guild, once per GBG round. The size of the fine is based on the level of the perk. The fine consists of extra attrition suffered by the members of the penalized guild. In the current situation, I see GBG where 2 guilds swap the entire map every 4 hours. With these fines, the 5 or 6 other guilds have a chance to gang up on the 2 big members.
j - Players may donate an amount of Castle Points to 1 other Guild member. For example 1% of the players own Castle point earned on that day. The 1% is depending on the Perk level. Player name should be saved by FoE, else it would be too cumbersome. And there should be a 'random' option.
(Though this is a player advantage, it does have a definite Guild aspect)

 

[one day flower]

For the past few years rewards have gone up. Now everybody is swimming in money and supplies. What we need is shortage. So that guilds and players have to make decisions what to invest in: short term, long term, trading, fighting, GE, GBG, GvG, guild level, and so on.

 

[one day flower]

The advantages of guilds should consider a few points:
A - donations must be inversely proportional to the member's age; the lower the age, the more the donation will see a multiplier of points (to encourage guilds to integrate small ages)
B - the advantages must not disappear after a certain time but lose in% of efficiency without continual donations (so the investment would no longer be lost)
C - the advantages must not generate individual gains but systematically collective (therefore give bonuses in Gex, GbG, GvG, ...)
D - the disadvantages must be proportionally the same for all members and according to their age (a penalty on goods, gold and merchandise will be of no consequence for any player after FUTURE)
E - since an advantage will be attributed to ALL members of a guild, ALL members must participate (this will re-bond between members and generate group dynamics)
F - like the castle, the benefit levels must take a long time to access but just as long to stay in place.
G - by integrating all these preceding criteria, it is better to limit the number of possible advantages to make them more effective. I will even see different types of specializations that guilds could display in their description to guide future recruitments.

A - That makes it unnecessary complicated
B - I was not aware that the previous perks were intended to decline over time?
C - With the exception of GvG, both Guild level, GE en GBG give individual advantages. I may agree that Guild Advantages should be the main dish, but some individual advantages are OK.
D - There is no need for a disadvantage.
E - This point contradicts your point C.
F - I would formulate this differently. They should take a long time to achieve, they should be costly, and the advantages should be small but important.
G - As expressed in previous posts, I would love to see specializations. With the previous perks this could be obtained through the disadvantages, but another way would be to group perks into some broad groups where guild should be forced to choose between the groups.

 

[CrashBoom]

- donations must be inversely proportional to the member's age; the lower the age, the more the donation will see a multiplier of points (to encourage guilds to integrate small ages)

actually lower age gets already more perk points for the same "value"

in SAV I have to give much more coins/supply for the same points

SAV goods have a value of 49.5 ranking points (Inno's gave that value to it)
iron age: 3 points (that is about 1/17)

so technically in SAV I have to give 17 times more value for the same points when I donate goods
or if we turn it around: iron age member gets a multiplier of 17 to his value if he donates his goods

(and if he trades a few SAV goods down to his iron age he would get thousands of goods)


and if a guild wants to use the perks and a small (low age) player can't afford to donate HIS goods the big (high age) player can give him the low age goods for free to donate them

 

[Owl II]

Simple, members pay from their stocks. This is not an infinite positive feedback loop as while it’s possible to stocking up large numbers of goods, they are numbered. Unlike the GbG armies with 0% bonuses and endless feedback loop. Which has no limit. Perks have hard limits:
1.) Maximum achievable lvl
2.) Player’s stocks are numbered

GbG exploits:
1.) No attrition = no or very few losses / battle = infinite battles = infinite rewards
2.) 4h protection swap exploit = no other guilds can do anything but sit and watch
Pre-SC GbG:
Attrition levels rising until you can’t fight anymore = daily fights are numbered = limited number of daily rewards

As you’ve said before, simple math. The same math that enables the endless stream of rewards from guilds that using it, for some members to proudly brag about. Though there’s nothing to be proud of if you have to exploit an mechanic.

So, the better question is: how can u work around a numbered amount of resources and levels as where in GbG there are no limits…

Pff..Obsession is bad in the general case. Obsession in the game is ridiculous. Why the hell can't you leave this crippled GBG in any topic?

But if you can't, then I remind you GBG is not infinite. 60 provinces. 160 fights. 6 shifts per day maximum. it s is divided into 8 guilds and distributed in proportion to their capabilities. It's just that the strongest take whatever they want. The rest take what they can.

Let's see now what the strongest will do if Inno follows your suggestion and removes the limit of 30 donations. I'm not the strongest player on my server in the live world. Only the top 7. But Chateau -100+ and arc 180 allow me to farmed coins, supplies, OP and goods in quantities that 80% of players cannot imagine. I saw a screenshot with 1.5 million FP in the inventory here, on the beta forum, . Will you be able to compete with this with your stocks?

Let's get back to this question when Inno cancels the donation limit and releases perks to live servers. If the perks will be worth to donation of course

Oh yeah. How could I forget? Happy New Year and merry Christmas of course

 

[Yekk]

Owl... donations could be done like getting extra battles in the arena. Increasing on a sliding scale each day. Rich guildies helping more but at a higher cost each 30 donations.

The three week and a perk disappears was universally hated. If it is in the next version Inno should expect more bad press here. That idea is unconscionable, without reason, indefensible. It is one of the mainstays of my saying GP was wrong minded. Once a perk exists having a daily "maintenance" "fee" seems right minded. I suggest Inno bring in a social mechanics expert to explain why they failed so miserably the first two versions.

 

[Owl II]

Owl... donations could be done like getting extra battles in the arena. Increasing on a sliding scale each day. Rich guildies helping more but at a higher cost each 30 donations

Why not? A huge amount of time has been spent on the development it s gameplay. It doesn't matter what will be used. It's only important that the perks are worth the effort. And one more thing is important: all players are different. There will never be equality between the abilities of the top players and the abilities of beginners

 

[one day flower]

Another idea for a Guild perk: Allow guilds to define Friends guild. The perk allows the guild members to do a x, 2, 3x etc trades without fp charge daily.
Members of a befriended guild can not be plundered.

 

[DEADP00L]

Good idea provided you limit the number of friendly guilds and put a timeout after any acceptance of friendship between guilds.