Feedback Space Age Jupiter Moon (SAJM)

[Devilsangel]

To answer further such questions)
Attack (SAV SAJM)
CHANGED:
Celtic Farmstead 35% 38%
The Charcoal Express 24% 26%
Winners' Plaza 14% 15%
Governors Villa 34% 35%

DIDN'T:
Speakers Corner 11% 11%
Carousel 8% 8%
Colossus 15% 15%
Fire Pagoda 12% 12%
Checkmate Square 11% 11%
The Appleton Cottage 13% 13%
House of the Wolf 15% 15%
Royal Marble Gateway 7% 7%
Pirate's Hideout 33% 33%
Jolie Canal 24% 24%
Great Wheel 26% 26%
Botanical Rotunda 10% 10%
Altar of Artemis 7% 7%
Abandoned Asylum 24% 24%
Pirate Guard Post 2% 2%
Piazza Clock Tower 9% 9%
Stage of Ages 19% 19%

Defense (SAV SAJM)
CHAGED:
Olympic Treasury 28% 30%
Carceres 18% 19%
Eagle Mountain 26/30% 26/31%
DIDN'T:
Druid Temple 28% 28%
Festive Canal 30% 30%
Wonder Wheel 32% 32%
Fiore Village 34% 34%

Added SC) Added stage of ages (didn't change) in last edit

 

[Markus Stormrider]

and speaker's corner?

 

[BetaWadie]

and speaker's corner?

Remains at 11% (just Reno'ed it myself to check)

 

[BetaWadie]

What conditions particularly? Which setups are you using vs what?

Harpoon + 7 Rogues is expected to be strong vs most armies, but you may need to hold back the harpoon sometimes. At low to medium attrition 2 harpoon + 6 rogues should skirt the issue mostly and allow for an ok full auto.

8 Glider should work well enough for a full auto - especially against SAJM artillery. But probably not enough of an advantage to clobber SAV artillery better than the SAV flyer since you lose your AO contribution. Which matters more than the relatively small stat boost it gained. It also may fear harpoons at medium to high attrition.

In general:
The heavy & fast got minor stat upgrades but are otherwise identical. You'll be best off using the like-age unit against the target to benefit from AO.
The light unit got its range nerfed it appears, but is otherwise very similar to the light unit in SAV - so I guess it's even harder to use.
The artillery got nerfed (blast instead of power shot) which indirectly buffs flyers.
The ranged unit gained contact! and should be a key feature in fights in SAJ - especially when combined with rogues for free retaliations.

I really need to get my beta world aged up in the next year

I used Power Dragons until L40 attrition last night and then switched over to 2 Harpoons & 6 Rogues and found I could go several fights with them without swapping into the 70's with my 1146/1293 stat line. I haven't yet unlocked them in the tree so have to be careful with the handful I have right now but they seem like the best option I've tried so far given the decent range and contact ability. Hoping to get glider base down in next day or so also to test them out.

*Update* used the 2/6 config again but starting from 0 attrition and found it highly effective until the mid 70's with limited swapping ( I did heal a few times since I only have 8 to work with right now) and only a few casualties were taken between 40-75 attrition. I even managed to have quite a few fights in the 60's and 70's where no damage was taken so the Harpoons seem like the initial front runner in the era.

 

[BetaWadie]

As much as people are hating on the AI Core I would argue this GB does still have some decent value overall, albeit not to the top era players. As a guild leader in a competitive swapping guild there will always be value in any GB that generates more guild goods and this will likely be added to our guild's treasury management programs. It would be awesome to have some sort of era selection option as many have suggested, however unlikely such a thing would be at this late stage in development. As someone who is currently parked in FE on one world and grinding through OF on my other I'm happy to see the little bump in special goods also as it's at least less frustrating than the SC always giving you Prom when you need Orichal or vice versa. LOL. The GB might not have value for many of you but value is always a relative thing as the saying goes "one man's trash is another man's treasure". For those yet to move into the higher ages this is a welcome enough GB and will likely see some who've parked for so long finally start moving up.

 

[Just4FoEbeta]

conclusion: the only use for this GB is for a limited number of niche players and not in SAJM... sound adequate!
after all I also think the GB is great: I'll save so much fps and resources not building it that I'll be able to progress my city faster

 

[BetaWadie]

conclusion: the only use for this GB is for a limited number of niche players and not in SAJM... sound adequate!
after all I also think the GB is great: I'll save so much fps and resources not building it that I'll be able to progress my city faster

Just for argument's sake have you ever considered that those in SAV waiting to jump to SAJM are actually "...the limited number of niche players..." since they represent a very small minority of the 50 million registered players in the game. This GB addresses two prominent gameplay elements in Forge today: generating more guild goods, which we voraciously consume these days with GBG and slightly speeding up the special goods process which is tedious for many players. This GB is at least giving something useful (guild goods) and something new (special goods boost) that we didn't have available before. There are arguably only 4 GB's that are game changers (Arc, Traz, CF, and AO), a handful that are must/should have for efficient gameplay today (CdM, Zeus, CoA, TA, and Galaxy) and then all the rest whose relative values depend on gameplay style, guild status, player era, etc... Just because this GB doesn't meet the personal needs and wants of the select few doesn't mean it won't have value for the many.

 

[Amdira]

A SAJM GB should meet the needs and interests of SJAM players in the first place and not those of AF players upwards

 

[Amdira]

If you want to help players with special goods, just make them tradeable - guess nobody cares bout some % boost
If you want to help very active long-time-players in high-end guilds (where you might find most of SAJM players), just make the treasury goods electible
If you want to help both, make goods electible and everyone can decide, whether to use for himself or give to treasury
The fact, that on day 6 of SAJM there are only 32 A.I.-Cores built, should show clearly,that there is need for changing something
Could be such easy

 

[Pericles the Lion]

A SAJM GB should meet the needs and interests of SJAM players in the first place and not those of AF players upwards

I agree but INNO seems to have a tradition of introducing GBs that have little benefit to the players in the age of the GB. Space Carrier - better for AF/OF. Flying Island ??? Now, Al Gore. My main city is AF so I'm going to plant AI when it goes live but I can feel the pain of the SAJM players.

 

[CrashBoom]

My main city is AF so I'm going to plant AI when it goes live but I can feel the pain of the SAJM players.

at least SAJM players can sell the goods for FP

how much would you pay ?

 

[drakenridder]

As for the copy past dilemma with space ages. I’ve been thinking it more throughly and I believe the colonies’ concept wasn’t bad but the colonies’ purpose is unfortunately absolute: producing goods are colonies’ ultimate goal. Most do this through forge of events or quests.
That been said I think at least the mechanic to gather special resources by funding expeditions with credits, which can only be gathered from colonies are for most unsatisfied players the only useful purpose of the colonies. So, I believe players don’t perse want new mechanics for the space ages but rather an new and fresh goal to work towards, something purposeful.

Colonies excel in solving the space issue in main cities: the lost battle for space in main cities through forge of events. They also provide stunningly beautiful alien landscapes to build an colony. Where they fall short is as mentioned an purpose. Though I don’t know what new goal could be made for them, I think an multitude of complex potential purposes could achieve more satisfaction.
An good example is from an racing game with the key mechanic to customise you’re car and picking you’re driver. There where about 5 different particulars however only up to 2 of those particulars could be maxed out before compromising any of them. Naturally beyond that the ultimate goal is to win the race. Assemble you’re care with the 2 most preferred particulars maxed out is just 1 of the biggest challenges but beyond that beating the other racers is the ultimate goal. Which proves regardless of you’re build the skills and tactics on the road are key to succes. Maxing out out preferred particulars however can help enormously.
I think the solution for future space ages lays in an similar direction. If the dev. team manages to create an meaningfully, challenging ultimate goal to work towards in future space ages. Which starts by constructing throughout the age and perfecting an space colony with for example 5 different particulars to keep in mind from which up to 2 can be maxed out in an complex matter the colonies all the sudden will feel far more meaningful and purposeful. For example choosing from a handful of different governors who have each their own unique twists on managing the colony. Especially if the colonies similar to credits nowadays are the only way to assemble something to get to that goal. Something less shallow then just grinding [insert own age special good here] until space age [insert next theme here] rolls around. If executed well it will open up an continually challenge for players to explore. Especially if the most effective way of achieving each ultimate goal shifts in every new age. Forcing players to rethink their plans and adjusting their strategies accordingly. If done great it could lead to many discussions and explorations for new ways to getting to that goal and spiking interest and enjoyment. Adding diamonds into the mix for a bunch of additional enhancements or FoE+ exclusives could aid in revenue for the future.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

at least SAJM players can sell the goods for FP

how much would you pay ?

Since AI Core provides Guild goods I expect that my SAJM Guildmates will make it easy to get the goods without spending FPs. That said, I think that this new GB will present a better opportunity than the Flying Noob Trap to score some FPs for SAJM goods.

 

[AGranolaBar]

Story quest says "Gather 65 of any goods from Jupiter Moon".
I tried grabbing some from market, from GBG (as prize), etc. - not collecting from an actual building - but it does not count as goods gathered.
Am I missing something or is this a bug?

 

[Tahrakaiitoo]

A SAJM GB should meet the needs and interests of SJAM players in the first place and not those of AF players upwards

Agreed.
If they want to address issues in earlier ages, they should make a new GB for THOSE AGES.

So, I believe players don’t perse want new mechanics for the space ages

Depends on what you means exactly. For the current space ages I think it's 'okay'.
But in the future, I do NOT want any more space ages like this. I DO want new mechanics.
I want Inno to stop doing the same thing over and over. It's boring as hell.

The main problems I have with the colony mechanic are these:
1) We've already done it 3 times. This will be the 4th. Boring.
2) I want to focus on MY town. I don't view the colony as mine because it's not what I want from this game.
3) The fact that the colony is only a temporary thing entirely drains away any will I might have had to complete it. I don't want to put in loads of work only for it to be taken away at the end of the age.

 

[drakenridder]

Depends on what you means exactly.

I mean purpose, a goal to work towards. Not perse new mechanics for manufacturing goods. For example they could start to require
synthetic (special) goods and current age goods and calling it an ''new'' mechanic as it hasn't done before. Giving an new appealing
goal to pursue wit the dependancy on you're colony with 5 properties related to achieving that goal.
As in my example for the racing game, the goal was beating other racers by finishing first. An key mechanic was designing you're
own car and maxing out the 2 most preferred particulars. In that game there is: Acceleration (time needed for the car to reach top speed),
top speed (how fast it can drive), handeling (how easy it is to steer/manoeuvre), boost (how much extra speed you gain from temporary
speed boosts) and weight (how difficult it is for others that bumping into you to push you off you're track). Translating that back to the
game.
Translating back to FoE technically yes new mechanics can be introduced but that's just not enough. They can facilitate an new goal, an
new purpose rather then just grinding the special resources to unlock expansions from some technologies. Though I admit I don't know
what could be introduced that appeals post-scares players to work towards. In any case they could start with introducing a bunch of
different gouverneurs with unique twists and skills to their disposal for managing the colony. Inspiration for this can be found from
Rebel Inc. where choosing an gouverneur strongly affects gameplay and strategies. Similarly this can be done with colonies in FoE
which would also be somewhat realistically. Potentially in later ages the choice of governor could even affect you're gameplay as
you may need to corporate with the governor as you'll give independence to the colony and effectively handing it over to him, or her,
or them. Ultimately within colonies an large range of new buildings can be introduced that contribute to 5 different particulars of
the colony's function into achieving you're ultimate goal in the age.
While I'm not sure what could be an appealing ultimate goal for an age, I can give a few examples. An new and more powerful
Embassy as to keeping relations with the (independent) colony, an unique building. Could be even an off city grid building that
grants acces to an new and exciting feature which can age well. Like an competitive feature single player or multi player
that will have an large influence on the succes of later ages. This are just examples but at least an greater ultimate goal then
just grinding for a few extra expansions and lacklustre units would probably provide an stronger appeal then current copy
past ages can and just plain new mechanics with the same ultimate goal: getting expansions and new units.

 

[BritishBoy]

at least SAJM players can sell the goods for FP

how much would you pay ?

On live I already sold 1 for 10k fp's

 

[BetaWadie]

A SAJM GB should meet the needs and interests of SJAM players in the first place and not those of AF players upwards

We would be hard pressed to name one useful GB that was designed solely for the benefit of the players in that specific era. Every worthwhile GB in the game has a greater mass appeal and especially so for the lower era players looking to speed their progress along. Giving SAJM players a GB that solely or even primarily benefitted them would make the GB even more undesirable for the majority of players in the game. Arguably there's not a lot SAJM players could be given that would be a significant bump for them anyway as any boost becomes more incremental once you reach a certain point in the game.

 

[drakenridder]

As for the copy past dilemma with space ages. I’ve been thinking it more throughly and I believe the colonies’ concept wasn’t bad but the colonies’ purpose is unfortunately absolute: producing goods are colonies’ ultimate goal. Most do this through forge of events or quests.
That been said I think at least the mechanic to gather special resources by funding expeditions with credits, which can only be gathered from colonies are for most unsatisfied players the only useful purpose of the colonies. So, I believe players don’t perse want new mechanics for the space ages but rather an new and fresh goal to work towards, something purposeful.

Colonies excel in solving the space issue in main cities: the lost battle for space in main cities through forge of events. They also provide stunningly beautiful alien landscapes to build an colony. Where they fall short is as mentioned an purpose. Though I don’t know what new goal could be made for them, I think an multitude of complex potential purposes could achieve more satisfaction.
An good example is from an racing game with the key mechanic to customise you’re car and picking you’re driver. There where about 5 different particulars however only up to 2 of those particulars could be maxed out before compromising any of them. Naturally beyond that the ultimate goal is to win the race. Assemble you’re care with the 2 most preferred particulars maxed out is just 1 of the biggest challenges but beyond that beating the other racers is the ultimate goal. Which proves regardless of you’re build the skills and tactics on the road are key to succes. Maxing out out preferred particulars however can help enormously.
I think the solution for future space ages lays in an similar direction. If the dev. team manages to create an meaningfully, challenging ultimate goal to work towards in future space ages. Which starts by constructing throughout the age and perfecting an space colony with for example 5 different particulars to keep in mind from which up to 2 can be maxed out in an complex matter the colonies all the sudden will feel far more meaningful and purposeful. For example choosing from a handful of different governors who have each their own unique twists on managing the colony. Especially if the colonies similar to credits nowadays are the only way to assemble something to get to that goal. Something less shallow then just grinding [insert own age special good here] until space age [insert next theme here] rolls around. If executed well it will open up an continually challenge for players to explore. Especially if the most effective way of achieving each ultimate goal shifts in every new age. Forcing players to rethink their plans and adjusting their strategies accordingly. If done great it could lead to many discussions and explorations for new ways to getting to that goal and spiking interest and enjoyment. Adding diamonds into the mix for a bunch of additional enhancements or FoE+ exclusives could aid in revenue for the future.

To simplify my points:
Space ages' colonies are fundamentally flawed as their current purpose and usage is lacklustre: producing the credits to fund the grind of special resources and optionally some goods though most goods are provided by forge of events and quests. This combined have lead to boring and uninteresting ages beyond their concept and looks.
Giving players in upcoming ages an new and meaningful goal to achieve will greatly help. Imo colonies should be repurposed. New mechanics can facilitate in this. It's crucial to create conflicting mechanics within the colony to achieve an appealing main goal for each new age. As this will lead to hard and strategical choices to make: what to compromise and what to enhance to achieve that ultimate goal?
The ages' goals for most serious players are now: expansions and new units to play around with and maybe some new goods to sell for fps. An greater more exciting goal for late game players could enhance latest ages. What this goal might be? Perhaps an entirely new feature for new ages and evolving gameplay with it. Unlocking more through new ages and choices you've made throughout them.

In the end it boils down to those purposes and goals SAM to SAJM:
Colonies: funding special resources, plain and boring
Space ages: expansions, few units and some goods to sell, it's falling apart

solution:
Age: new and exciting feature for late game players
Colonies: enhancing parts of that feature at the expense of other parts as per players' choice. Forcing interesting though hard choices to make that feel making an difference.
New ages: expansions and new stuff to unlock for set feature to play around with and new strategies to develop, test and explore

 

[Amdira]

We would be hard pressed to name one useful GB that was designed solely for the benefit of the players in that specific era. Every worthwhile GB in the game has a greater mass appeal and especially so for the lower era players looking to speed their progress along. Giving SAJM players a GB that solely or even primarily benefitted them would make the GB even more undesirable for the majority of players in the game. Arguably there's not a lot SAJM players could be given that would be a significant bump for them anyway as any boost becomes more incremental once you reach a certain point in the game.

I wrote in the first place
Show me one SAJM player who was asking for a special goods boost
Show me one SAJM player who was asking for treasury goods

They were asking for several things, but this GB is made for another era than SAJM