Feedback Space Age Jupiter Moon (SAJM)

[Pericles the Lion]

It will cost an AF player about 32K FPs (using 1.9s) to level the AI Core to 60 and get 9 charges of a 40.11% special goods boost on the Arctic Harbor ship. The ship can make what, 3 trips every two days? So, the benefit of the GB is a 40% boost (approx 32 goods) three times in two days. Give or take, 50 Promethium each day. I'm not sure that the benefit is worth the cost to AF players. It may be in OF for Promethium and Orithicalum boost

 

[xivarmy]

It will cost an AF player about 32K FPs (using 1.9s) to level the AI Core to 60 and get 9 charges of a 40.11% special goods boost on the Arctic Harbor ship. The ship can make what, 3 trips every two days? So, the benefit of the GB is a 40% boost (approx 32 goods) three times in two days. Give or take, 50 Promethium each day. I'm not sure that the benefit is worth the cost to AF players. It may be in OF for Promethium and Orithicalum boost

When it comes to the boats you can just call it a 40% boost - there's no benefit to trying to count charges vs just targeting what would be best anyways. So where AF would normally take say ~40 days of boats, instead it'll take ~28. OF is the bigger impact - where it can take say 100 days of boats, instead it'll take ~70 days. Then you're not done needing orichalcum after that, so if you're continuing to run ahead, it'll still help for a while longer. Overall you cut off maybe 6 or so weeks of the trip through. For some that'll be worth the FP - and then they still have a quality treasury building when they're done.

 

[BetaWadie]

When it comes to the boats you can just call it a 40% boost - there's no benefit to trying to count charges vs just targeting what would be best anyways. So where AF would normally take say ~40 days of boats, instead it'll take ~28. OF is the bigger impact - where it can take say 100 days of boats, instead it'll take ~70 days. Then you're not done needing orichalcum after that, so if you're continuing to run ahead, it'll still help for a while longer. Overall you cut off maybe 6 or so weeks of the trip through. For some that'll be worth the FP - and then they still have a quality treasury building when they're done.

I will definitely build this and party it up to L60 on Houndsmoor before exiting FE so will see how this theoretically plays out in terms of time reduction in those eras specifically.

 

[drakenridder]

Show me one SAJM player who was asking for a special goods boost

I am looking for special goods boost. Even while in SAJM though I'm
not really looking for previous age special goods bonus.

 

[xivarmy]

I am looking for special goods boost. Even while in SAJM though I'm
not really looking for previous age special goods bonus.

It was something I had mentioned re: SAAB/SAV colonies and wishing for more depth to decisions in them. Ore is too short in supply to run excess goods buildings anyways, so they're not a very interesting puzzle, unlike mars where you had more than enough Ore to sustain goods buildings and could try to make decisions as to how much life support you wanted to run vs how much goods production.

This isn't a question of power really - SAAB & SAV colonies make more goods than mars anyways due to stronger goods buildings. They're just not satisfying to design because there's really only one way it makes sense to build them: enough credits to sustain exploration, and then as many goods buildings as you can fit on full life support. And there's a lot of leeway to waste space in it.

There's no sense in trying to tradeoff life support for more goods buildings in SAAB/SAV without a way to increase ore produced without diamonds due to a lack of minable ore.

So if the ore bonus applied to continent deposits, I guess this might open up avenues (unless they balanced around needing it instead of it being an actual bonus). My idea though had been that otherwise-bad houses (that weren't best for pop or best for credits) could apply the continent deposit boost.

I'd also suggested that in the interest of people who don't need the goods anyways having interest in the colony that there should be buildings that turn ore into something else, like buffs or units.

Having an area that you can't put event buildings in does have the potential to restore some of the city constructing elements to Forge of Events. But only if those colonies are capable of being used in enough different ways that they have some appeal to the majority of playstyles - and involve decision making as to what matters most to you.

 

[Zuckerberg the Horrid]

As much as people are hating on the AI Core I would argue this GB does still have some decent value overall, albeit not to the top era players.

So.. not for the people who can build it naturally?

 

[Zuckerberg the Horrid]

So, I believe players don’t perse want new mechanics for the space ages but rather an new and fresh goal to work towards, something purposeful.

I think if you really drill down in to it, rather than people wanting something new and purposeful (in terms of new game mechanics that require more clicking), at least in the late eras where people have been drained by Inno already, they want less grindy crap. We have enough to do in our cities already.
Colonies are just the worst of the worst because what we built in the previous era gets destroyed for the next one.
Having to worry about multiple resources just to get an edge up on production of the two goods we can produce, is time consuming and unnecessary, so I don't think many people do it after the first few months. I don't care much about having to do a new colony, but the age would be better without copying and pasting it in my opinion.

 

[drakenridder]

Having to worry about multiple resources just to get an edge up on production of the two goods we can produce, is time consuming and unnecessary, so I don't think many people do it after the first few months.

I think honestly most people can't care less about colonies' goods production since forge of events and quests are providing more goods then really needed to bother with such. Effectively making colonies absolute to begin with. The only usable resource made in them are credits. That's why it's fundamentally flawed but beyond that it's mostly just that space ages are boiling down to empty shells of grinding the special resources and credits in the beginning to unlock all expansions and maybe some interesting units if it's even offered to begin with.
IMHO I think if something entirely new was introduced for late game players to play around with, develop strategies for, etc. it would be way better then just what is now. As for the rest most competitive action takes place in GbG, GE can easily be done in an hour.

It was something I had mentioned re: SAAB/SAV colonies and wishing for more depth to decisions in them. Ore is too short in supply to run excess goods buildings anyways, so they're not a very interesting puzzle, unlike mars where you had more than enough Ore to sustain goods buildings and could try to make decisions as to how much life support you wanted to run vs how much goods production.

Yeah colonies could've been an fantastic comeback city building element to the game in an unique way with the added benefit of enjoying an stunningly alien city. Yet lacking meaningful purpose it's falling apart and the space ages at large feel boring copy pasted versions of SAM with different themes.
As mentioned before the colonies theoretically are aimed to balancing around life support, credits and reliable influx of special resources to feed the goods buildings. Yet the goods needed to unlock the desired expansions can easily be obtained through quests and forge of events. Ultimately leading to our current situation where the only useful resource from colonies are the credits needed to fund the expedition to get the special resources needed to unlock expansions.

My idea though had been that otherwise-bad houses (that weren't best for pop or best for credits) could apply the continent deposit boost.

So, some houses in the colony giving X% additional special resources from the map? While being inefficient in credit production. Sounds interesting to me. Though limited useful long term it's way better then what we got now.

I'd also suggested that in the interest of people who don't need the goods anyways having interest in the colony that there should be buildings that turn ore into something else, like buffs or units.

That would be an interesting concept. I've been thinking lately about something more complex yet similar. An council or trade hub made from all past colonies featuring different needs and cultures. Heavily defined by how you've constructed them. Each giving something else and perhaps having the option to trading in special resources amongst them. Though it'll be too complex for FoE I guess.

Having an area that you can't put event buildings in does have the potential to restore some of the city constructing elements to Forge of Events. But only if those colonies are capable of being used in enough different ways that they have some appeal to the majority of playstyles - and involve decision making as to what matters most to you.

I agreed and that's partly the thought behind my vision to break away from the copy paste grind credits and special resources for 1-2 new main city expansions. If the colonies offer an multitude of different benefits but where you need to make compromises in getting towards an larger goal it'll automatically creating an situation of conflicting thoughts and ever shifting ideas in how to optimise you're colony to best suiting you. Similar to my example with that racing game where balancing out an car or leaning strongly towards a few particulars can affect you're gameplay. It would be interesting to see an more complex and meaningful approach for the colonies in the future. Especially when each age after feels like you're choices of the previous age matters as it'll continue to have impact on the game. Imo assigning an governor to ultimately handeling the colony over to is an strong example and easy enough to implement.

 

[Tahrakaiitoo]

For example they could start to require
synthetic (special) goods and current age goods and calling it an ''new'' mechanic as it hasn't done before. Giving an new appealing
goal to pursue wit the dependancy on you're colony with 5 properties related to achieving that goal.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree then.
I don't want to see any mechanics that make the colony mandatory to progress. I want them to stop doing space ages and do something new and fresh. Without any of that temporary colony stuff.

 

[planetofthehumans2]

When it comes to the boats you can just call it a 40% boost - there's no benefit to trying to count charges vs just targeting what would be best anyways. So where AF would normally take say ~40 days of boats, instead it'll take ~28. OF is the bigger impact - where it can take say 100 days of boats, instead it'll take ~70 days. Then you're not done needing orichalcum after that, so if you're continuing to run ahead, it'll still help for a while longer. Overall you cut off maybe 6 or so weeks of the trip through. For some that'll be worth the FP - and then they still have a quality treasury building when they're done.

But for people who are past OF, even though the requirement doesn't fully go away is it even worth to build? Like you sit in each era until the next one, 6 months, send the boats out you should have plenty ready for the next era requirements. Although TBH they really shouldn't continue with goods from the boats anymore, these eras are practically irrelevant 3+ ages behind now.

 

[drakenridder]

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree then.
I don't want to see any mechanics that make the colony mandatory to progress. I want them to stop doing space ages and do something new and fresh. Without any of that temporary colony stuff.

To be clear that what you've quoted was not what I suggest. It's an example of how the dev. team could
technically interpret the ''introduce new mechanics'' feedback in the worse possible way. Still even if so,
Forge of Events and quests with CF will keep you covered as both will continue to provide more goods
then you'll ever gonna need.
Secondary side cities like colonies are really the only city-builder left. As the game has evolved itself into
an corner. I've suggested emulation ages as an series of ages after the space ages. With an permanent
side city that you can build and expand upon through each new emulation age. Even going as far to provide
some benefits you can unlock and maintain. Though the letter is optional and whatever benefit you may
desire will come with the expense to missing out on the other benefits. Unless you'll choose to switch
towards any of them. Featuring complex optional mechanics for the player to unlock and explore. I aimed
the emulated side city to resolve the disposable nature of colonies and the lack of purpose beyond the
credits and grind in the long wait for the next age to show up.
I've started an discussion topic in an free part of the forum, as suggesting any new type of age would
swiftly be demonised as DNS. Even while an increasing number of players desire an new theme for
the game to explore. Imo emulation ages provide the full freedom for the dev. team to explore other
themes and asking the community for whatever theme they want to see the most. Even fantastical
and hypothetical themes like Atlantis could be realistically introduced.

 

[Tanmay11]

pls reduce Keen eye %

 

[-Alin-]

pls reduce Keen eye %

It is too much, way too many losses compared to SAV, even at 10 atrition ...

 

[qaccy]

Oof, doesn't look like this new age is enough to entice me into playing again. The art usually looks good, but if the gameplay is stagnating what's the point? What happened to trying out new stuff with new ages? It's a shame that stuff seems to just be phoned in now. Even the military units aren't changing anymore...

 

[clown X]

?? reduce Keen eye % >> why ??

 

[Zuckerberg the Horrid]

?? reduce Keen eye % >> why ??

Because Keen eye's purpose is to randomize GBG so that people diamond heal more since they lose troops even at easy attrition levels. It's why in Venus you can (for example - based on my main city at least) full auto 75 attrition but you'll wipe half the time, full auto 70 attrition but wipe a quarter of the time. Against the same troops. It sucks for predictability though I can see how some game designers would think that people would like things like this to be more dynamic, in reality it just causes each age to be worse than the previous age since they up the % each age pretty dramatically.

 

[CrashBoom]

It's why in Venus you can (for example - based on my main city at least) full auto 75 attrition but you'll wipe half the time

and without keen eye you would fail 100%

because the 50% you win the keen eye is on your side

 

[ArklurBeta]

@CrashBoom Keey Eye makes the outcome of battles very random, too much noise. As @Zuckerberg the Horrid said, in SAV, I can lose units, even battles with low attrition. Yes, by average, since KE can trigger on both sides, it's "okay", and with KE you can even get to higher attrition, if you lucky in both KE triggering on your side more and less for the enemy, but the randomness of the outcomes is simply annoying to deal with.

I understand some don't hate this ability that much as others, some even like it, but as someone who likes more deterministic outcomes, relying less on luck. Obviously there are still many factors, like AO or the fields (some units hide on specific fields), but where will it stop? 3 more ages then we will have KE 50%? Winning/losing a battle will be a "coin flip"?

I really hoped Inno will come up with another ability and forget about KE, but...that ship sailed I guess, so...maybe for the next age.

 

[xivarmy]

@CrashBoom Keey Eye makes the outcome of battles very random, too much noise. As @Zuckerberg the Horrid said, in SAV, I can lose units, even battles with low attrition. Yes, by average, since KE can trigger on both sides, it's "okay", and with KE you can even get to higher attrition, if you lucky in both KE triggering on your side more and less for the enemy, but the randomness of the outcomes is simply annoying to deal with.

I understand some don't hate this ability that much as others, some even like it, but as someone who likes more deterministic outcomes, relying less on luck. Obviously there are still many factors, like AO or the fields (some units hide on specific fields), but where will it stop? 3 more ages then we will have KE 50%? Winning/losing a battle will be a "coin flip"?

I really hoped Inno will come up with another ability and forget about KE, but...that ship sailed I guess, so...maybe for the next age.

While I don't hate keen eye, i do think it's worn out its welcome and should've been being replaced with some sort of new ability (though whatever that new ability is it's important that its notable enough that people don't just keep using last age's keen eye units - so it's not so easy).

 

[DEADP00L]

I really hoped Inno will come up with another ability and forget about KE, but...that ship sailed I guess, so...maybe for the next age.

That's what we've been saying since MARCH!
But 3 ages later...