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Feedback Space Age Jupiter Moon (SAJM)
- Thread starter Juber
- Start date
jamils1175
Farmer
I appreciate the beta. I thought the Venus test was great and I loved the music in that age, but Jupiter's music is even better.
When it comes to the road of victory fragments, we've received a good amount of them in the beta. Could the developers allow us to open all possible fragments in multiples of 100's? It's not as if the road to victory is like a selection item that must be placed as soon as it's opened. So there doesn't seem an apparent reason why multiples of 100 can't be opened in one instance. Then the players place as many as they can in their cities to connect to the statue of honor.
When it comes to the road of victory fragments, we've received a good amount of them in the beta. Could the developers allow us to open all possible fragments in multiples of 100's? It's not as if the road to victory is like a selection item that must be placed as soon as it's opened. So there doesn't seem an apparent reason why multiples of 100 can't be opened in one instance. Then the players place as many as they can in their cities to connect to the statue of honor.
SAJMtest586
Farmer
Several things, Town hall is boring and too flat, horrible design. The off world goods production building is fantastic! Please switch them.
off world goods production is too dark, can’t see roads or goods building, a contrasting road would help.
AI GB seems worthless,we already have multiple buildings that produce guild goods. Suggest a much needed % increase to supplies, the Lighthouse is far outdated and Royal Albert Hall is to big to be useful. Plenty of secondary options, Goods / FPs, / Attack maybe even a new ability like City stat bonus, where you get a 24 hour % stat bonus for all non GB buildings, So say a % increase on your Attack, Defense, Supplies, Coins.
Troops seem like a cut / paste of Contemporary era, we really needed a decent troop.
2 troop improvements I would suggest, for Ranged unit increase base attack to 1000, this will help ranged use critical hits.
on Heavy unit add stealth and raise base defense to 1000, this would make it hard to kill for all but Artillery.
off world goods production is too dark, can’t see roads or goods building, a contrasting road would help.
AI GB seems worthless,we already have multiple buildings that produce guild goods. Suggest a much needed % increase to supplies, the Lighthouse is far outdated and Royal Albert Hall is to big to be useful. Plenty of secondary options, Goods / FPs, / Attack maybe even a new ability like City stat bonus, where you get a 24 hour % stat bonus for all non GB buildings, So say a % increase on your Attack, Defense, Supplies, Coins.
Troops seem like a cut / paste of Contemporary era, we really needed a decent troop.
2 troop improvements I would suggest, for Ranged unit increase base attack to 1000, this will help ranged use critical hits.
on Heavy unit add stealth and raise base defense to 1000, this would make it hard to kill for all but Artillery.
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iPenguinPat
Squire
My experience is that the best way to manage guild treasury and GBG is to either have zero players in an age or to have 10+ well developed players that generate massive goods due to arc, obs, atom, soh, etc.
3-6 players in a given age is "no man's land" and tends to lead to treasuries getting crushed. At 3-6 players in an era, you don't make enough to cover the cost, and yet, still have a higher chance of getting drained of one specific good in that age. Seems like players all settle into PE, FE, and SAM-SAV.
Making more guild goods allows guilds more flexibility with their player and age makeup. Diversity is good for the game.
On the other hand, smaller and/or newer guilds also benefit from the extra guild goods. Your POV is from a #1 guild with tons of developed players. If you had fewer members or they were far less developed, those guilds goods could be a major bottleneck for your growth and acceptance as an ally in swaps.
One of the biggest challenges with guilds right now is that it's such a pita to start a new guild due to treasury limitations. It's also extremely difficult to manage treasury in a smaller guild. Not everyone wants to deal with the politics of a 70+ member guild, but they still want to be competitive. Giving those guilds a way to compete without selling their soul to RQ's is also good for the game, imo.
The biggest issues with the guild goods for AI Core are:
1) The cost per good is far too high. Compared with other Guild Good GBs, AI Core is painfully underpowered. the guild goods per fp spent should at least be in the range of the other guild goods buildings, but they aren't even close. it's several times the cost of Arc to level to 80, but only 15 total extra goods?
2) As you pointed out Zuck, many guilds are already well-stocked in their highest ages. However, they are hurting for lower age goods. Providing an option for higher age players to generate lower age goods would be extremely helpful (and very popular IMO... players have been asking for something like that for a while now).
Yekk
Regent
AI Core values at 58: x9 39.46%
(Himeji 58: x9 45.84%)
so most likeley it will end at x10 and 45%
(very unlikely but maybe even 50%)
not really very much:
an extra of 4.5 productions compared to the size of 3 synthesizers it already needs
and those goods are really only for tech tree (synthesized special goods can't even be used to produce goods of the same age in the colony)
and for that reason it should also be applied to the special goods on the map
One thing everyone misses on the new GB is that until SaaB there are no synthesizers. The "ships" can not be diamonded for extra collections. AF-VF the most anyone can reasonably can expect is 1.5 to 2 collections a day per ship. The 2 collections being at a much lower collection rate. Using the crew to speed the "boat" will lower what it holds in most cases. A level 100 AI Core with its 10 collections will only have 2-3 of those used each day for the problem ages of AF-SaM. In SaaB where Sam synthesizers show just putting down one extra synthesizer will help players more than this GB.
Ignoring the guild treasury for now it seems to me leveling this up past level 20 would be foolish if your guild has a strong treasury and the player has other needs (GB's that should be leveled first). The very fact that from AF on such goods are only really usable in GBG further limits this GB's efficacy.
Or am I missing something...
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ArklurBeta
Baronet
Although I agree that it should give more goods given how expensive it is, one thing to take into consideration is the efficiency of the building. While it only gives +15 goods compared to Arc, it is smaller, 25 vs. 35.
Comparing the efficiency of the 4GBs that produces guilds goods (with roads in brackets) and their cost (with 1.9x) at lvl80:
Obs - 82 (70); 26k FPs
AIC - 33 (30); 58-60 FPs (estimation, based on SAM->SAAB->SAV GB costs)
Arc - 23 (22); 24k FPs
Atom - 19 (14); 35k FPs
Comparing the efficiency of the 4GBs that produces guilds goods (with roads in brackets) and their cost (with 1.9x) at lvl100:
Obs - 104 (90); 58k FPs
AIC - 41 (37); 125-130k FPs (estimation, based on SAM->SAAB->SAV GB costs)
Arc - 29 (27); 63k FPs
Atom - 23 (22); 79k FPs
Hope my numbers are correct
.But yes, it's clearly getting more-and-more expensive to level the new GBs, their boost should somewhat reflect that more. One might say that in higher ages the player has a larger city, therefore can collect more FPs, but the increase of the size of the city is way behind of the costs (and for many players most of the FPs don't come from the city collection anyway).
iPenguinPat
Squire
I think the value of the special goods bonus is being a bit underrated because so many players giving feedback are on the other side of the AF to SAV grind. Yes there will be leftover charges in AF/OF; however, you'll still be able to reduce the amount of time to collect the required Orich by 20-30% depending on the level. For most players, that's a couple of weeks. Considering players are often willing to power level SC from X to 91 just to cut down on time spend in OF, i think it's fair to say a predictable reduction is much appreciated.
One thing i hadn't considered is how much players will appreciate the boost for synthesizers. When you sit in the max-age for months and up to even a year, it's easy to stockpile enough special goods for the upcoming ages. If you're starting from 0 for SAM, SAAB, and SAV goods and you're trying to race to SAJM asap, then you may not want to stay in each of those ages until you collect enough special goods to cover research for the following ages. (i.e. saving up 30k+ Mars Ore, or whatever the amount is, before moving to SAAB).
Having the option to age up and still produce a decent amount of Ore, Ice, or Carbon is actually still a major benefit for players making the FE -> Max age journey.
This GB doesn't really do much to address the needs of players in SAJM. The importance of the new GB being helpful/valuable to the players moving into the new age can certainly be debated.
As noted in my previous post, innogame knows that we're going to sell this GB to early age players anyways. This GB does actually fill the specific needs of the majority of players (i.e. not in top tier guilds + not fully developed + not at the end of the game). If I'm going to take a glass half full approach, I'd look at this as something to make a ton of "effective" FP from by selling it to early age players. We all know that early age players are going to want it far before it's useful to them. At least we can feel good selling it to someone rather than like we're ripping them off with the flying noob trap. We still get benefit from the GB by being in SAJM if we choose to play smart
CrashBoom
Legend
have you considered that the building needs the space of 3 synthesizer
and give only a max of 10 times 50% (be generous and say we can reach that)
but you already gain a 25% higher production if you run 8/8/4 instead of 24h
so how many synthesizers are you using in which timing combined with the synthesizer boosts ?
only daily production interval ? then 10 times = 10 synthesizers = 10* 40 goods * 1,5 (let's be generous and give it 50% at max) = 600 special goods
now a player with not the GB: he has 13 synthesizers running on 8/8/4 =13 * 50 = 650
not daily. then you can boost the 8h production twice of 5 synthesizers + 4h unboosted: 2 * 5 * 20 * 1,5 + 5 *10 = 350
but then the other player would have 5+3 synthesizers = 8 * (20+20+10) = 400
oops: no GB. higher amount of special goods from synthesizers
so the only real benefit is in fact AF / OF goods if you want to pass it fast
and I only levelled it to 91 (in my live world) because of the other bonus
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have you considered that the building needs the space of 3 synthesizer
and give only a max of 10 times 50% (be generous and say we can reach that)
but you already gain a 25% higher production if you run 8/8/4 instead of 24h
so how many synthesizers are you using in which timing combined with the synthesizer boosts ?
only daily ? then 10 times = 10 synthesizers = 10* 40 goods * 1,5 (let's be generous and give it 50% at max) = 600 special goods
now a player with not the GB: he has 13 synthesizers running on 8/8/4 =13 * 50 = 650
not daily. than can boost the 8h production twice of 5 synthesizers + 4h unboosted: 10 * 20 * 1,5 + 5 *10 = 350
but then the other player would have 5+3 synthesizers = 8 * (20+20+10) = 400
oops: no GB. higher amount of special goods from synthesizers
and I only levelled it to 91 (in my live world) because of the other bonus
You'd probably need to stick with the 8 hr collections. so the 5 extra collections from 10*50% are only ~2 synthesizers worth of space (including "normal" road comparison, 12 squares per 3x3 synth sharing double-lane vs 27.5 squares for 5x5 GB sharing single lane). So it's pretty close to breaking even.
You'd really have to also ultimately want it as a tgoods building (and at least there's a case for that assuming you're in more FP than you know what to do with territory; the reason I never built an atomium is that it took too much space vs lv 8 statues for how many extra goods it made (it doesn't even catch up til level 29 and the statues give FP). The smaller footprint of AI core makes it more likely I'd include it if I find myself in a guild where my treasury production is important again.
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Honestly I think they could just peel the charge limit off it entirely without breaking it if it doesn't apply to map deposits. Boats are regulated by how often you can send them anyways. And synthesizers need more charges for the boost to be effective at such a low % (so you can run the right cycles for your play pattern and as many as you feel worthwhile - whether that be 5 or 10 or 20; the advantage of synthesizers is that they're tiny and you can run many).
There won't be any diamonds to test this Era as there weren't any last year, aswell.
Last year the Archeology Event started one day after the Era release and diamonds were provided for that.
JhonnyBn
Merchant
It's also important to consider that some players rushing through ages do not have enough population and supplies to maintain that many synthesizers up and running every day. So, while it is a big investment for a a low profit, there still is some profit for some players. (Also, many just collect once a day and that's it)
mcbluefire
Baronet
Your bad review of the Snorlax Townhall is not appreciated.
Of course, I am kidding. It is a very interesting move based on past townhalls.
iPenguinPat
Squire
have you considered that the building needs the space of 3 synthesizer
and give only a max of 10 times 50% (be generous and say we can reach that)
but you already gain a 25% higher production if you run 8/8/4 instead of 24h
so how many synthesizers are you using in which timing combined with the synthesizer boosts ?
only daily production interval ? then 10 times = 10 synthesizers = 10* 40 goods * 1,5 (let's be generous and give it 50% at max) = 600 special goods
now a player with not the GB: he has 13 synthesizers running on 8/8/4 =13 * 50 = 650
not daily. then you can boost the 8h production twice of 5 synthesizers + 4h unboosted: 2 * 5 * 20 * 1,5 + 5 *10 = 350
but then the other player would have 5+3 synthesizers = 8 * (20+20+10) = 400
oops: no GB. higher amount of special goods from synthesizers
so the only real benefit is in fact AF / OF goods if you want to pass it fast
and I only levelled it to 91 (in my live world) because of the other bonus
If you were only building the AI core for the synthesizers, then it would obviously be less efficient. But if you'd have AI Core either way, then it does make a difference. Calculations are a bit crude, and you could technically fit 8 with only 3 blocks of 2-lane road - but it would have to dead-end into the synths.
Of course, i'd rather the charges boost deposit harvets from the camp and that would be way more useful. The AI Core does make each individual synth produce more per 24/hr than you would with 8/8/4, therefore, we shouldn't immediately treat the synth bonus like it's worth nothing to players that need to use synths.
Darth Vader The Mighty
Baronet
It seems like pattern for Inno. Last age it was the same. Just not too dark, but too bright. And you could not see roads too. Dont ask me why they are doing it like this. So many people have problems with eyes, yet they always pick colours that almost cant be seen...
Dazza Tursas
Farmer
Thanks. I like having all the guild treasury buildings in my city. Although as I'm in SAV treasury is well funded for that era. Could be useful when new eras come out.
Zuckerberg the Horrid
Squire
how big is the AI Core? I can't tell from looking at it and haven't found any BP yet, I think maybe 5x5? if so then I guess it's good just for that reason, right now I advise any guildmate against Atomium unless they're AF+ due to the space, if AI Core is 5x5 I'll be recommending it for PME+ maybe as low as Indy.
Tanmay11
Regent
yes it's 5x5
Zuckerberg the Horrid
Squire
Cool. If they change the secondary thingy to happiness instead of special goods, it'd be much better (like a smaller atomium) - but now that I realize it gives +2/level like the others (I thought it was modified like the stupid SG payouts) I'm OK with this GB.
It's been a LONG time since we've had any happiness GBs, and anyone who isn't full of event buildings that specifically provide happiness at this point is pretty tight. Special goods? if they wanted to rush more people through AF/OF they could just directly increase the output rather than making a useless GB mod that has to be built and then stops being useful after you finish the rush... dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.
It's been a LONG time since we've had any happiness GBs, and anyone who isn't full of event buildings that specifically provide happiness at this point is pretty tight. Special goods? if they wanted to rush more people through AF/OF they could just directly increase the output rather than making a useless GB mod that has to be built and then stops being useful after you finish the rush... dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.
Edwin the First
Merchant
Inno is like a football team that loses every game by double digits and scores a goal every now and then.
And the few goals they score are celebrated and they don't notice that they are losing more and more fans, or they just don't want to believe it.
The coach swears that the next game will definitely be better, but because the same bad tactics are played again, they keep losing until the last sponsor and the most loyal fan is lost.
Most of the reactions here show that Jupiter didn't get there at all because the same tactics were tried again.
copy paste copy paste how much longer?
And the few goals they score are celebrated and they don't notice that they are losing more and more fans, or they just don't want to believe it.
The coach swears that the next game will definitely be better, but because the same bad tactics are played again, they keep losing until the last sponsor and the most loyal fan is lost.
Most of the reactions here show that Jupiter didn't get there at all because the same tactics were tried again.
copy paste copy paste how much longer?