DeletedUser4040
Guest
PME is reachable?
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Why are we trying to find an equivalent comparison? It doesn't work like that. You got the promised-age goods up till now, so no airbags or cars or anything is being taken back. The goods you've collected are still there, and you're still receiving goods, the ones that you to make ME goods so not some useless goods. Those airbags are still being given to you, but you get to put them in the car yourself. It's not that big and hurtful of a change that it's being made into.
DeletedUser
Guest
I'll have 21 ME goods building. Why not? Coins and supplies aren't a problem, and I'll need to remodel my city anyway. If you want to be constructive, make your own estimation. Numbers may be different, but it won't change the main conclusion:
GBs produce too many goods during 5-moth waiting period. To solve this problem, devs doubled GB goods production.
If you don't see how brilliantly ingenious this solution is, then I'm sorry.
DeletedUser
Guest
Is it really that hard to understand the problem here? It's totally fine if you play in another way and therefore don't get affected, and it's also ok if you don't agree with me, but don't pretend that there is no problem!
Exactly. "Up till now". That is NOT what the GB description said when I decided to make all the efforts to build the thing! It said "goods from the current age", not "goods from the current age up till modern era". Then I wouldn't have built either those GBs nor spent easter eggs on the WWs.
Yes they are. Do you really don't see the problem??? When I built my goods-GBs I did so for the sole purpose that I should not be in the needs of having goods buildings in my city when I was already done with my research. You need to understand that not everyone plays like you, and both me and many other people used this as a strategy, which actually isn't wrong because these GBs said that they would produce goods from the CURRENT age. It was simply a good deal.
I'm not saying that they are taking back our already earned goods, but they are taking back that deal. That word. That promise.
Let's change the example:
When you buy your car you get an offer where you can pay X more and get your tires changed into 4 new winter-tires for your CURRENT car every year. A year later, the sellers calls you and says that you'll now get 4 tires to ANOTHER car instead!
Aha, so then I guess that you'd still be happy in the example above and use the OTHER tires on your car? Or no, even better, maybe you would still be happy and use the 4 OTHER tires to produce 4 tires to your CURRENT car?
Wouldn't surprise me if you still don't get the point...
For me they are useless, and for many other players aswell. Because we paid to get goods from the CURRENT age, not some old goods from 3 ages back. It's totally fine for me if you want to take up the already tiny city area and build goods-buildings instead of other things, but me and many other players don't want that and it would be nice if you could respect that.
Once again; Not for you, but for me and many others. This is your opinion, and you're of couse free to have it, but why do you interfere in a discussion with players that don't like this change? If you don't get affected by this change, you surely won't be affected if they turn it back as it was before. I'm not asking them to undo the way of producing goods, I just want my GBs and WWs to produce what they promised me to do.
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HuscarlTW
Squire
You won't have space for 21 ME goods buildings. Not if you're doing daily quests as you plan in your calculations.
I don't really see the problem. All players will have to deal with this, not just you. It just means GvG will be much more difficult to dominate in the Modern Era area.
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HuscarlTW
Squire
I did the math earlier, before making my post, and yes, that is true. But doing so would mean you wouldn't have space for other things in your town... like cultural buildings, military buildings, and supplies buildings (for those daily quests Ggryvi features in his calculations)
Which Great Buildings will become useless because of this change? St. Marks? LoA? RAH? Babel? or Fraukirche?
- St. Marks provides a massive bonus to coin collection
- LoA provides a huge bonus to supply collection
- RAH provides a massive bonus to supply collection
- Babel isn't that amazing as it is (in my opinion)
- Fraukirche provides 4900 happiness at level 10. This is comparable to a polished city park.
Additionally, their goods bonuses aren't useless. If they were useless, you would need to produce thousands of CA goods with goods buildings. These goods buildings would consume a gargantuan portion of your town. Assuming you have a boost for coffee, supplying 20 PE goods buildings would use up 288000 coins/supplies per day, along with 14400 population and 210 tiles of land.
Your great buildings are still EXTREMELY valuable.
On a final note, byeordie, I remember you from the early days of the EN server. You've been around for a long while, and you remember what happened when people finished the tech tree, before great buildings were added. Forge points just sat there, idle and unusable. So, saying that you spent 10,000 or 20,000 FPs on great buildings isn't really saying much, since you had nothing to research anyway. It's not like you sacrificed a whole lot to level your GBs. If anything, GBs kept you from quitting the game.
Thank you for that lenthy and step-by-step reply, it only serves to prove my point - you're only seeing your side of the story (you just want your buildings to be returned to the old versions). A discussion is the exchange of ideas and opinion, and this isn't your discussion, but a public discussion of a certain topic and I am free to voice my opinion here as much as you are. I did already see your point many replies back, and for your information I -DO- use just GBs and WWs for obtaining goods, this affects me as much as it does you, I am in the same boat, but my stand on the matter is different than yours. This isn't just about me or you or anyone else in this thread, it's about the effect this change would have on the game itself.
DeletedUser
Guest
Am I? An ingame poll would be very interesting to show you that it's not only mine opinion or my buildings. Many players don't like this change.
Yes, you're correct, this is an open discussion, and you are free to voice your opinion, I've never said the oposite. I just see no reason to argue against this matter when you obviusly get my point and it's clear that this will result in many angry players.
DeletedUser2752
Guest
I was talking about your hypothetical situation where ME units loose their GB boost
(I admit CdM would still be useful though)I know these goods-giving GBs all have other properties which will not get rid of their value, but they are not giving what they should right now. The problem I have is the excessive amount of CA goods we are getting. As you said, the average player is not aiming to make at least 8 ME goods (20 if you have all level 10 GBs) buildings to make use of their GB output. IMO, the biggest problem with it producing CA goods is that it will become useless by the next age as well (since we have gotten on a habit where 3-age old goods are not used). Sure, we can try and trade our goods up, but there will be many players with just too much CA goods in their stockpile, and this is the problem I am trying to outline. If we are given ME goods, we will use them towards Guild Wars and whatnot, but I don't think that many players will focus on the CA province if you ask me.
I also agree with falcon's point. Until the ME, goods-giving GBs always have the description that they are producing current age goods. It doesn't matter if it takes two-age old goods to make our new goods, it's the fact that we were never warned that something like this will ever happen. Note that this alone doesn't change my opinion on the change itself (it was the above paragraph alone
).DeletedUser
Guest
Okay, I'll explain in more details.
On the day ME is unlocked I will tear down all my supply and military buildings and will cover my town with ME goods buildings.
During the next 2 weeks, I will produce ME goods, will finish ME research, and will finish all "normal" quests that are provided with each new age (I need to finish all normal quests to run several recurring quests in parallel). I can run "goods only" town for some time because I have plenty of coins and supplies and unattached units.
Then I will delete all goods building and will build a town maximized for completion of recurring quests and point collection.
First 2 weeks - only goods production without recurring quests.
After that - no goods production and completion of recurring quests.
There is enough space to fit 21 ME goods buildings (packaging & convenience food; maybe others are bigger, I don't remember) and typical GB set. But it doesn't really matter - instead of extreme strategy "20 goods blds/2 weeks" one can use much simpler "13 goods blds/3 weeks", and the result will be the same.
DeletedUser
Guest
We think alike, eh
U will build up a large extra goods stock with 2 weeks tho, u can produce like 8.8k goods with that time, around 7k more than u actually need for the research tree. I see no reason why one shouldn't be able to finish ME in about 3-4 days again tho. Heavy diamond players can convert their towns to new best production buildings within minutes and will never need to build those goods buildings tho, so any day wasted at goods mode or not at end of research is a massive loss of collect points. 3 days and u are set to complete ME research tree. 3 more days and u are set to build ME GB. Any days over that and u just setting urself up with stock. I built Chateau last week to worry about the stock part. Also u need to have few other ppl like u with deposits to cover all 5, or u will murder the market and have nobody to trade with.
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DeletedUser
Guest
sorry phantom for the late reply
we seem to have quite a nice chat here
when your money are stolen under false advertising it's reason to sue...no matter the amount of money that was stolen.
Still let's get back on track ....you say this is a blow for big players...that's quite hilarious as big players are the best to adapt to any change since they are the most resourceful players in the game. You'll see in your neighbourhood for sure how fast they'll stock pile big time. I for one am looking forward to prove my point in the first week of the new era by the end of which I'll have ME goods more than any other previous era goods in my stock.
But what would you say if they nerfed attack buildings ? or defence buildings ? would you like it ? building up those buildings for nothing ?
we seem to have quite a nice chat here
when your money are stolen under false advertising it's reason to sue...no matter the amount of money that was stolen.
Still let's get back on track ....you say this is a blow for big players...that's quite hilarious as big players are the best to adapt to any change since they are the most resourceful players in the game. You'll see in your neighbourhood for sure how fast they'll stock pile big time. I for one am looking forward to prove my point in the first week of the new era by the end of which I'll have ME goods more than any other previous era goods in my stock.
But what would you say if they nerfed attack buildings ? or defence buildings ? would you like it ? building up those buildings for nothing ?
DeletedUser
Guest
I built all the GB's on 3 of the 10 worlds I play on. I reasoned that while they take up a TON of space, I wouldn't need as many happiness/goods/coin/resources/military buildings as someone who didn't build them all so it would all work out from a space standpoint (sure my cities aren't the point producing machines that those who went premium with maxed coin/resource GB's are, but they will suffice). With the drastic increase in need for 2 lane road (from 50% of non premium buildings requiring them in the Progressive Era to 82% in the Modern Era), the sheer size of the new buildings combined with the change to the goods producing GB's it has turned my 3 cities upside down. I will absolutely not have enough room to build what I need to progress and maintain the same level of coin/resource production while still maintaining all 16 (+2) GB's on two of the three worlds. I absolutely relied on these current age goods producers to keep me away from having to build enough goods buildings to progress through the tech tree.
There is absolutely NOTHING ingenious about these changes at all. I can see the forest through the trees here and you are blind if you don't. They were made with one thing in mind and it wasn't to challenge us: I posit that it was to slow tech tree progression down enough by putting up contrived roadblocks like this...probably to take pressure off the developers to churn out content fast enough to please the majority of the player base. Otherwise there was absolutely no reason to change the GB's. The change to how modern era goods were produced wouldn't have been enough. Most people already had more than enough CA goods stocked to get them through the Modern Era, and that combined with the GB's working as they were intended pre-change would've sufficed. You may have had to squeeze a CA goods building or two in and did a bit of trading to get through it all but that would've been a small speed bump. It definitely won't slow down the premium player nor the player like me who will do as others have suggested when it goes live...strip my town and churn out goods for a few weeks and then back to the normal grind once tech is done. This double (triple?) whammy listed above slows down to a crawl all but the top players in the mega guilds and leaves the vast majority in beg, borrow & plunder mode clawing through each tech training.
The GB change is an AWFUL and unnecessary change...period.
Just my 2 coins,
CF
There is absolutely NOTHING ingenious about these changes at all. I can see the forest through the trees here and you are blind if you don't. They were made with one thing in mind and it wasn't to challenge us: I posit that it was to slow tech tree progression down enough by putting up contrived roadblocks like this...probably to take pressure off the developers to churn out content fast enough to please the majority of the player base. Otherwise there was absolutely no reason to change the GB's. The change to how modern era goods were produced wouldn't have been enough. Most people already had more than enough CA goods stocked to get them through the Modern Era, and that combined with the GB's working as they were intended pre-change would've sufficed. You may have had to squeeze a CA goods building or two in and did a bit of trading to get through it all but that would've been a small speed bump. It definitely won't slow down the premium player nor the player like me who will do as others have suggested when it goes live...strip my town and churn out goods for a few weeks and then back to the normal grind once tech is done. This double (triple?) whammy listed above slows down to a crawl all but the top players in the mega guilds and leaves the vast majority in beg, borrow & plunder mode clawing through each tech training.
The GB change is an AWFUL and unnecessary change...period.
Just my 2 coins,
CF
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DeletedUser
Guest
Yes, one can finish ME goods production in 3-4 days. It all depends on schedule (20 or 30 goods/day), ME GBs that will be built (0, 1750, or 3500 goods), number of recurring quests, Chateau level, and desire to trade goods up during next waiting period. 2 weeks is a conservative estimate, which should be enough for any player.We think alike, eh
U will build up a large extra goods stock with 2 weeks tho, u can produce like 8.8k goods with that time, around 7k more than u actually need for the research tree. I see no reason why one shouldn't be able to finish ME in about 3-4 days again tho. Heavy diamond players can convert their towns to new best production buildings within minutes and will never need to build those goods buildings tho, so any day wasted at goods mode or not at end of research is a massive loss of collect points. 3 days and u are set to complete ME research tree. 3 more days and u are set to build ME GB. Any days over that and u just setting urself up with stock. I built Chateau last week to worry about the stock part. Also u need to have few other ppl like u with deposits to cover all 5, or u will murder the market and have nobody to trade with.
DeletedUser
Guest
I'm not just talking from my own perspective. Many players don't like this change and I can just imagine how many more that will get mad when this reaches the ordinary servers.
It is simple and has been explained by me and others aswell: Many of us got the GBs and WWs because they produced goods of the CURRENT age. That was what we was promised when we spent our cash, time, goods and FPs to construct them and level them up. That is why they just can't change this afterwards. And this will also reach new players, which will hesitate to even get the different GBs because who knows what they will come up with next? What if they decide that the offensive boost is too OP in PostModern Era? Will they nerf our offensive GBs then aswell?!?!
Regarding GvG: GvG will require LOADS of goods. 50 of EACH modern era good just to place 1 (ONE) siege army that can (and will) get defeated multiple times per day. And 5 + 10 + 20 + 30 + 40 + 50 + 60 = 215 of EACH modern era good to unlock all slots in 1 (ONE) sector.
Considering this, and to then have GBs that give us CA goods, will not make GvG more difficult; it will make GvG boring and pointless, because there will be more trouble with goods and economy than actual fighting.
HuscarlTW
Squire
I just read two essays on how easy the ME goods will be to collect, and now you are telling me that GvG will cost too many goods.
Perhaps the devs intend for players to maintain production over a long period of time.
Anyway, I understand everyone's points and have nothing further to say, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Perhaps the devs intend for players to maintain production over a long period of time.
Anyway, I understand everyone's points and have nothing further to say, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.
BestWarrior
Baronet
Untill now i didn't understand the point in this change of GB's if we have a Frontenac that give us a lot more of goods from the missions. It's totaly unracional to change one of the main sources from the GB's that give goods as reward. Many things has been said so far and one of the most importants is the break of trust that this change can bring to the game, because all those who had bought BP's and goods with real money to build the GB's, felt like they have been cheated.
I agree with the way to produce the new goods, i don't agree with the changes in GB's. In this aspect, Innogames is running against all odds and taking serious riks in future investments from the players in the game, which is not a good comercial policy for sure.
I agree with the way to produce the new goods, i don't agree with the changes in GB's. In this aspect, Innogames is running against all odds and taking serious riks in future investments from the players in the game, which is not a good comercial policy for sure.
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DeletedUser
Guest
they would have changed that too if it wasn't for the many complications that such a move would have done
DeletedUser
Guest
I think that we had a pretty healthy discussion here and it would be great to see some response from a developper. I know that this is in the middle of the holidays, but I definitely think that both this overall subject and thread is worth an overlook and response by a developper when work starts again after new year. That is not too much required, or?
DeletedUser
Guest
I have solution that gives part of the GB's advantage back. Not all, but still much better than what that is now.
take an example one ME good building.
Now 24h production gives you 20 ME goods.
How about if you can choice how much you product ME goods.
24h production:
If you have all GB on lvl 10, then you can easily make 80 ME goods just one buildings.
Of course GB are not so good as those was in PE, but you do understand that those GB are to OP now.
take an example one ME good building.
Now 24h production gives you 20 ME goods.
How about if you can choice how much you product ME goods.
24h production:
| cost ColA goods | reward ME goods | cost multiple | cost coin/suplies |
| 20 | 20 | 1 | 4800 |
| 39 | 30 | 1,3 | 7200 |
| 64 | 40 | 1,6 | 9600 |
| 95 | 50 | 1,9 | 12000 |
| 132 | 60 | 2,2 | 14400 |
| 175 | 70 | 2,5 | 16800 |
| 224 | 80 | 2,8 | 19200 |
| 279 | 90 | 3,1 | 21600 |
| 340 | 100 | 3,4 | 24000 |
If you have all GB on lvl 10, then you can easily make 80 ME goods just one buildings.
Of course GB are not so good as those was in PE, but you do understand that those GB are to OP now.
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DeletedUser2752
Guest
Wait a sec, 20 ME goods buildings will require 400 CA goods a day on one-day productions... Do you already have extra CA goods beforehand or are you aiming to build a few more CA goods buildings as well?