Feedback Guild Expedition Update

[softly explorer]

This thread is not a discussion, it is for feedback to be gathered and forwarded.
And the feature has been released to all worlds for over a week now, so the feedback will be gathered mostly there.

Agree on first paragraph.
Question about second paragraph : where and how get the feedback gathered from the players on live servers ? Is it on another FoE forum or do Inno gather "data" from live servers about players do's or don't's?

 

[Fire Witch]

Is it on another FoE forum or do Inno gather "data" from live servers about players do's or don't's?

All other forums have feedback threads just like this one as far as I know.

The bigger forums/communities are FR, DE, EN and US (change beta in this forum URL to any of those short codes).

 

[esoterism]

There was an announcement after the first week: https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.c...on-guild-expedition-level-5-difficulty.16119/
There were balancing changes due to player feedback: https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.c...vel-5-difficulty-and-level-1-4-rewards.16151/

This thread is not a discussion, it is for feedback to be gathered and forwarded.
And the feature has been released to all worlds for over a week now, so the feedback will be gathered mostly there.

@Fire Witch, So this it, there will no change to EG5 crazy %defense level and number of ressources required to negociate ?

 

[DEADP00L]

@Fire Witch, So this it, there will no change to EG5 crazy %defense level and number of ressources required to negociate ?

Another distortion of the words of others!
Discreetly, you only inflame or create controversy.

 

[esoterism]

All other forums have feedback threads just like this one as far as I know.

The bigger forums/communities are FR, DE, EN and US (change beta in this forum URL to any of those short codes).

Ok, go and flood the FR server with 85 pages of complaints filed here.... !!!! ????
Your objective woud be the disregard complaint, avoid replying to complaint here and put the blame other FR, DE, EN and US moderators, you would not have made another answer Shame on INNO !!.

 

[CrashBoom]

there will be more event buildings giving blue % in the near future

as Juber said once: being able to beat level 5 is a marathon not a sprint

sprint: 100-400 meter
marathon: 42 km

so if one week GE is considered sprint (let's take the 400m)
then the GE marathon would be about 105 times of that = 2 years

so improve your boosts in that time and maybe you can do it

 

[Fire Witch]

So this it, there will no change to EG5 crazy %defense level and number of ressources required to negociate ?

No, I have not said that and I do not know that.

Your objective woud be the disregard complaint, avoid replying to complaint here and put the blame other FR, DE, EN and US moderators, you would not have made another answer Shame on INNO !!

I just said that the feedback is now mostly gathered on the live servers and gave some examples for forums, because they did not seem to be known. Please do not twist my words.

Also, most of the announcements on the live servers state this or something similar, this one is from the EN forum:

Note: as we're still working out the details of the new balancing, the rewards above might still change.

 

[shad2389]

why do you need more red % in gvg ?

to loose less troops did i realy need to answer that ?

so to really boycott everything else you should also sell the red % which is too much

it's not the red % that is the problem it's the blue one who should never have left being the town def % to be also part of GE

 

[jovada]

I still think adding a level 5 with a complete difference of fighting is a mistake.
End players with tons of goods have no problems but smaller players already have difficult to reach level 4 and don't have the goods to negotiate every week on level 5

Far bether would have been if they created a new expedition next to the old one with levels 1 to 4 only with town att/def graduating in difficulty just like the other expedition, even giving different rewards and creating a GB temple special for this expedition with also different relics ,

New players and small players could do maybe 2 or 3 levels of each enjoying everything , but now they are stuck with a level 5 never reachable in the near future.

 

[Daenerys Targaryen]

I still think adding a level 5 with a complete difference of fighting is a mistake.
End players with tons of goods have no problems but smaller players already have difficult to reach level 4 and don't have the goods to negotiate every week on level 5

Far bether would have been if they created a new expedition next to the old one with levels 1 to 4 only with town att/def graduating in difficulty just like the other expedition, even giving different rewards and creating a GB temple special for this expedition with also different relics ,

New players and small players could do maybe 2 or 3 levels of each enjoying everything , but now they are stuck with a level 5 never reachable in the near future.

I support your idea, that's why I even suggested creating 3 more levels being completely only for defense and defense army attack. Then it could be like it is at GBG. Each week you would have 4 levels for the attack army and the next week it would be another 4 levels with only the defense armies. It would be much better that way. Because then you would have more chances to play and be balanced. I don't know why not thought about it, that would be wonderful, or else make 8 levels and merge the odd levels (1,3,5,7) for the defending army and the even levels for the attacking army (2,4,6,8).

 

[mcbluefire]

Attacking with defending boost is just dumb. It's a desperate attempt to make an otherwise useless stat seem useful - which it is not. Getting the last 16 encounters of GE done every week is not essential for anyone's city or guild.

Inno should have innovated a major portion of the game where defense stats would be important to at least a few playstyles. Instead they made it this worthless speed bump for players who were attacking other player's cities. Now the attack/plunder system is barely used and folks who tried to have a useful defense to "protect" their city gave up because attack boost could plow through even the most incredible defenses. A 1000/1000 city defense should not be easily walked through by a 800/800 attack but that's how it was and so what is the point of having a city defense?

I'm happy for those of you that view it as a challenge and are willing to take it on. However, it's a misuse of a long since established boost that needed no resurrection into "viability".

Right now I'm watching folks on US servers scrambling to raise up SBC and DC. What a joke! If they move SBC, DC, and TA to L100 they will have 215/215 defense. Based on some reports here they'll still need to use 52 30% blue potions every week to get to 215/1800 or more to stand a chance of getting through the first 8 levels in GE5. Yep, event buildings will come with more defense and attack boosts tacked on to get folks to spend $$ to get them and replace their existing attack centric event buildings...

However, that doesn't mean it makes any sense what-so-ever to go and attack using defense boost. It's absolutely mind-numbing the complete lack of creativity.

I know Inno has always wanted us to move up through the ages and they've done several things to push that over the years. This release of GE5 actually encourages players to stay in low ages longer and makes Indy with FE troops the single best age to sit in permanently. I suppose the diamonds used to keep the FE troops is now more important than encouraging players to move up? But then, even in Iron Age, what good is 215/215 defense boost when GE80 is 727/727? ROFL!

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Right now I'm watching folks on US servers scrambling to raise up SBC and DC. What a joke! If they move SBC, DC, and TA to L100 they will have 215/215 defense. Based on some reports here they'll still need to use 52 30% blue potions every week to get to 215/1800 or more to stand a chance of getting through the first 8 levels in GE5. Yep, event buildings will come with more defense and attack boosts tacked on to get folks to spend $$ to get them and replace their existing attack centric event buildings...

I'm one of those "folks" that just built the SBC. I also just built the Star Gazer. TA is already at 85 but I'll lift it higher. Go ahead and think that it's a "joke". My suspicion is that the Devs will release more features similar to GE L5 making City Defense even more relevant. If I'm wrong, no harm. It's not like I'm spending real money. If I'm right, then who will have the last laugh? Time will tell. Meanwhile, it's actually fun having a project to work on while waiting for Titan to be released.

 

[mcbluefire]

While I concur with about everything you said, Pericles, the three GB's raised to L100 is what the joke is. For those with tons of FP sitting around to spend (like many of us here) it's a quick project to bring those to that...but the sad reality is it's just a drop in the bucket of what's needed to "defend" in GE5. Like my Star Gazer as well! Been great to have since it came out.

As I said,

I'm happy for those of you that view it as a challenge and are willing to take it on. However, it's a misuse of a long since established boost that needed no resurrection into "viability".

, and I mean it.

I am laughing all the way through GE5 every week using just goods and not spending much more than those who will eventually get GE65-73 "defendable" and then have to negotiate from there. Yes, eventually those players will move higher and higher and naturally through event building changes I may as well, but I'll still gravitate to attack boost because as nice as 1812/1633 is it still needs to be more for higher attrition as for some reason the swaps on 4SCs seem to be much more likely to provide attrition gain (more like 90% reduction as of late) and 3SCs can add 20 or more in a swap session now. City defense of 143/116 is not enough to do the first encounter in SAJM and I have nothing I'd like to give up to grow it.

The game requires offense for 80% of GE and 100% of the rest of the game. For those who like negotiations they see GE as 100% negotiations and GbG as something to dabble in when they can hit a sector that is going slow enough for negotiations. That means 100% of this game requires zero city defense to be successful.

I'll say it one last time, attacking with defense boost is ridiculous. It's not creative and it's got folks either completely turned off of GE5 or spending resources they may have had other plans for on a boost that assists with 20% of GE aka <1% of the game. That's why I find it humorous.

I stand ready and am currently investing in several players SBCs, TAs, and DCs. Nothing but a boost to me in FP and/or medals. Gotta thank FOE for bringing me more business via drop threads, however temporary it will be.

Meanwhile, I'll remained focused on exactly what I was focused on before this was released not the least bit sidetracked or phased and I'll continue to enjoy that greatly while I weed through the GE5 complaints I see from the cross-guild chats I'm in. Had to remove 5 long-time friends this week who went red following the release - much bigger spike than I normally see, but more power to them in their new game or more RL time. LOL

 

[stay rita]

At that point, even if I was really hurting for more diamonds, I'd just buy them instead. Spending that much time 'working' on the game is not only going to make it less fun for me, I already have a full-time job that pays me. I can just throw an hour or two's wages at the game to avoid all the work of dealing with diamond farms.

So, what it's my play style I'm no different from you whales in GBG fighting for 11 days straight when I only play GE for two days and collect the rest of the week. We are not the same

 

[drakenridder]

I won 2 yesterday with my ToR in my main world
directly sold them to the dealer

Spoiler: dealer selling currently running

View attachment 9421
there are 2 more small things on the right (7 dealer slots) if someone is calculating and think the result would be a little bit too high

You're selling FoY? Ahhhh there where so many players upset over getting them being very difficult and your just selling them off. Careful cause you might causing a riot. Just sarcasm but it's kinda funny to see how some riot over a rare building while others selling the same building.

I know Inno has always wanted us to move up through the ages and they've done several things to push that over the years. This release of GE5 actually encourages players to stay in low ages longer and makes Indy with FE troops the single best age to sit in permanently. I suppose the diamonds used to keep the FE troops is now more important than encouraging players to move up? But then, even in Iron Age, what good is 215/215 defense boost when GE80 is 727/727? ROFL!

It's not just this change for GE5, also the ridiculous keen eye ability. Until a lost space age or a space age is released without keen eye and base stats sufficient to nullify keen eye's effect upon impact, I'll happily push through the space ages' keen eye limbo/hell. The space ages have only additional goods flow and some expansions to offer but in return punishing fighters harshly with keen eye. Enough for some to stay out of the space ages. The cmap however is not safe. Got fighting with Of units on SAJM map.

 

[GwenGwen]

I still think adding a level 5 with a complete difference of fighting is a mistake.
End players with tons of goods have no problems but smaller players already have difficult to reach level 4 and don't have the goods to negotiate every week on level 5

Far bether would have been if they created a new expedition next to the old one with levels 1 to 4 only with town att/def graduating in difficulty just like the other expedition, even giving different rewards and creating a GB temple special for this expedition with also different relics ,

New players and small players could do maybe 2 or 3 levels of each enjoying everything , but now they are stuck with a level 5 never reachable in the near future.

I totally agree with you. 2 separate GEs, one for attack and one for defense. Both designed the same way but with different rewards suitable for everyone.
Because army of attack and army of defense are two totally different things. The only point they have in common is the alternative of negotiation which is a strategic choice. This as it should be in a game that is strategic above all!

 

[drakenridder]

GE5, 2nd attempt
I've prepared a bit better than last time. Buffed my defence a bit over 200% vanilla attack and around 300% defence. While in OF.

Defence bottles and fortifications were used. I went always for extra attack% or both att/def% from fortifications. I didn't enjoy kraken/Virgo's support, though with AO support I just managed to push through the 1st 13 encounters. Could also push further with Virgo/kraken I think but felt it wasn't worth my defence bottles.
For comparison I've pushed through last week through the 1st 3-4 encounters. So, about 9-10 encounters. Personally I think it's understandable to be upset that red buffs don't apply to GE5 but I understand the change. Making GE5 challenging with red buffs would be practically impossible. Cause some have 1.000%+ while others have over 2.000%+ red buffs. Making it challenging for both would be practically impossible. So, they could've gone either 2 ways: no buffs like Egyptian settlement with increasingly harder to beat army set-ups, or using the buff most lack (defence buffs). I think they've chosen defence buffs cause it's something they could sell in events. I think they came up with fortifications to make it more bearable. Although the neg. fortifications are not making any economical sense, lol. The battle road does. Pretty cheaply paying fortifications and not worrying about neg. costs.

As for the rewards, I've reviewed them more closely. It's rather odd that the main building of the chain building is more efficient than its chain pieces. Regardless it's a useful building and worth the investment, imho. Keeping up the temple is somewhat worth it but to much less extend. As for the guild GE5 is a big burden on the treasure.

 

[GwenGwen]

I support your idea, that's why I even suggested creating 3 more levels being completely only for defense and defense army attack. Then it could be like it is at GBG. Each week you would have 4 levels for the attack army and the next week it would be another 4 levels with only the defense armies. It would be much better that way. Because then you would have more chances to play and be balanced. I don't know why not thought about it, that would be wonderful, or else make 8 levels and merge the odd levels (1,3,5,7) for the defending army and the even levels for the attacking army (2,4,6,8).

Another alternative:
When a player opens the GE he finds himself in front of two small windows; Attack Defense, and he is free to choose the one he prefers and self-manage himself with the help of his guild.
The Defense window could thus be expanded gradually giving players time to prepare.

 

[mcbluefire]

I'll happily push through the space ages' keen eye limbo/hell.

While I agree GE5 "defending" in SAJM is .... pretty much "forget about it" I don't see the effect of keen eye as a negative until pushing over 88 attrition in GBG and even then it remains a trivial annoyance until 108+. (1800/1600 attack boost). Certainly wouldn't call it limbo/hell. If anything it's super simple - 3 grenadier + 5 rogues, hit several times, replace worn units, rinse/repeat -> high attrition 5+ grenadiers + 3(-) rogues... Very nice fighting and the expansions are definitely worth the effort.

Do I hope SAT doesn't have keen eye? You betcha!

 

[drakenridder]

While I agree GE5 "defending" in SAJM is .... pretty much "forget about it" I don't see the effect of keen eye as a negative until pushing over 88 attrition in GBG and even then it remains a trivial annoyance until 108+. (1800/1600 attack boost). Certainly wouldn't call it limbo/hell. If anything it's super simple - 3 grenadier + 5 rogues, hit several times, replace worn units, rinse/repeat -> high attrition 5+ grenadiers + 3(-) rogues... Very nice fighting and the expansions are definitely worth the effort.

Do I hope SAT doesn't have keen eye? You betcha!

Honestly I feel it's really a hell cause it's a punishment. Getting screwed by bad "luck" due to hostile keen eye connecting frequently, while doing everything else good and strategically, is imo a punishment for advancing into the space penalty copy paste ages. The main issue is the lose of fighting capabilities over prior ages. GE5 is a good example. GbG can be arguable falling in the same. Though I'm currently working very slowly on a 2nd city. Aimed to push through with a big focus on defence for attacking armies. To absorb the ridiculous keen eye. Among high defence buffs on defending armies for GE5.
On top of it all, I feel keen eye has no place in a strategy game. Critical hit from AO neither. Pokémon games had critical hit for example well executed. A low chance to randomly doing extra damage. No ridiculous 20%+ chances. It would be awesome when keen eye gets innovated out of the game.