Feedback Guild Expedition Update

[kama]

I think the way this GE 5 is designed may be the thing that makes me quit the game. I have spent many $$ to design my main city to fit the way the game is played. Now with this concept, I would have to completely redesign my city, and remove buildings that I have spent good money to get. So thinking my options are to either go to a guild that doesn't care about GE, or just call it, and figure it is time to find another game. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

 

[xivarmy]

I agree! However, I'm not about to drop 3M FPs on my L98 CF so I can negotiate my way thru L5 to get frags of a building that provides FPs (don't need), Attacking Army boosts (don't need) and Defending Army boosts (that I won't need with a L205 CF). Can't build Defense boost without compromising Attack boost, can't win L5 fighting, too costly to negotiate. As it stands now, L5 is not on my "to do list"

You don't need that high of a CF most likely Just to do a lot more quests if that's your preferred option for goods. Colonies in space ages also can provide ~1k goods a day which is a decent chunk of what you need. "Extraneous" productions off the likes of eagle mountains that you have for their boost to your attacking army can also help.

i.e. level 98 is 35 goods 5/14 of the time = 12.5 goods per random reward. So you need to complete ~800 quests a week to make 10k goods.

 

[Demeter7]

You don't need that high of a CF most likely Just to do a lot more quests if that's your preferred option for goods. Colonies in space ages also can provide ~1k goods a day which is a decent chunk of what you need. "Extraneous" productions off the likes of eagle mountains that you have for their boost to your attacking army can also help.

i.e. level 98 is 35 goods 5/14 of the time = 12.5 goods per random reward. So you need to complete ~800 quests a week to make 10k goods.

I have better uses for my goods than getting the rewards that are offered. Not worth it IMHO.

And there are 10 choices in each negotiation? That sounds like it would take alot of diamonds to ever finish.

 

[Kronan]

I posted this a few days ago in GE 5 SPOILERS...brought it over here to help:
_______________________________________________________

Here's another interesting "how it currently works" dichotomy:

1) Orange Juice from Attack boost FLASKS - DO NOT STACK for attacks. So the BEST you can get "on-demand" (for attacking army) is:

20% attacking inventory flask + best tavern item at 30% attack for silver = 50% total on demand attack.


2) Blue juice from Defense boost FLASKS - WILL STACK for city defense. SO if you have a lot of them.... They seem to do the same in GE 5 defense (now that it's released)

If you have 50, 20% flasks - you got 1000% defense help (for 8 hours).

Seems like all those blue flasks we usually sell, just got very valuable?...

The price of defense poker just went up..

 

[thelegend88]

I hope game designers change their mind on having this as "mandatory" part of GE and turn it into a purely BONUS level meaning it will not count towards GE victory for reasons I stated here :

Post in thread 'Guild Expedition Update' https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/guild-expedition-update.16083/post-150375

 

[Demeter7]

Inno - there is only one way that this is going to work.
You are going to need to double the space available to build.

 

[xivarmy]

2) Blue juice from Defense boost FLASKS - WILL STACK for city defense. SO if you have a lot of them.... They seem to do the same in GE 5 defense (now that it's released)

If you have 50, 20% flasks - you got 1000% defense help (for 8 hours).

Seems like all those blue flasks we usually sell, just got very valuable?...

The price of defense poker just went up..

They only affect defense for defending army. You still need to be able to damage the attacking units. If your attack for defending army is 4x lower than the thing you're attacking's defense, then your defense would need to be 4x higher to make it a "fair fight"! That's a *ton* of potions (1000% is not enough to make a dent in SAJM on the toughest fight) You might get away with that for a week or two, but it's not a viable longterm solution for how you do GE5 unless you're making *hundreds* of them a week

 

[Gedrog]

Like WOW - Kudos @Gedrog - seriously.

For trying, and for "gettin' er done". Amazing.

We're going to call you "The Legend"....

Getting it done once is going to be a mean feat for me in live, In Beta I have 256 defender boosts to play with but on the live server I have about 79 defender boosts and my Attack and defence of my defending army is even lower in Live, so to burn through all my defender boosts in one sitting that took me a year to accrue is not feasible, the only building that offers defender boost fragments is the dead man's boathouse and like most people I did not even build that building in live, I am curious to know if someone has the figures for the Future Era

 

[CrashBoom]

do Virgo and Kraken work in level 5 ?

they should

Virgo says first 3 battles and not: when you attack


Kraken battles too

 

[-Emperor-]

The disappointment of this year.. InnoGames with a spoiled anniversary event, level 5 GE and.. GbG.

 

[SlytherinAttack]

So, hot take, I actually really like this. GE 5 should be extremely difficult and costly for us now. Why? Several reasons:

1. Most don't have tons of defense boosts in their cities. This promotes more city diversity and opens up new avenues for defense boosts to actually be desirable.
2. Making GE 5 so hard means that it won't be a feature that gets added and is immediately forgotten. To complete it, you will have to work really hard, or build your city around completing it!
3. This helps balance the rewards and makes it so that, once again, you have to work hard to get them instead of just immediately getting tons of fragments and buildings as soon as GE 5 starts.

Don't you see? GE 5 finally gives this game potential to start moving away from buildings that give only attack boosts. It gives traders more of a reason to produce goods. It makes the game so much less linear and introduces more potential ways to build your city. In fact, I would go so far as to say we need more features like GE 5 introduced over time that take advantage of defense boosts and goods more than they do now. It's healthy for the game to have a feature that doesn't cater to the current meta.

Now, should the final boost for the army in SAJM be 2569%? Probably not. The values themselves will have to be tweaked, but not too far. I think ~1500% in same would be fair, and a lot less for lower ages. But for the first time in a while, I actually feel positive about this feature. Inno could release the next event with a building that gives defense boosts and no attack boosts, and guess what? It would actually be a viable option.

tl; dr, the first feature I've been wholeheartedly excited for in a while. Good job Inno. You did it.

When GBG introduced for mobile, I was having joy like anything. A reward store (gifts, resources etc) is handed like got a feeling. Now GE5, they are taking my rewards gain from GBG and City. Not getting the feel of excitement still. I don't like the partiality behavior. Why only GE 5 should be defense boost. Let the entire guild expedition becomes defense boost and GBG relies on attack boost. Let everyone do the fortification from Level 1 itself. Why to keep a game feature which makes the new player who joins the game recently should take years of time to use it perfectly. Is there any chance of excel within a year to reach GE5? If they sacrifice their real life duties also still won't be enough.

Challenges are most welcome, but make sure everyone faces the challenge. When we create an idea, have criteria like "maintain balance or not". Is this not applicable to dev's?

 

[xivarmy]

Challenges are most welcome, but make sure everyone faces the challenge. When we create an idea, they have criteria like "maintain balance or not". Is this not applicable to dev's?

Not to the same degree. If the developer wants to change the landscape, make things more rewarding, etc, they reserve that capacity for themself as to what power they add, and how you'll get it.

Basically though they don't want player ideas to turn into "we want more stuff!" because that will be an overwhelming perspective if allowed.

 

[SlytherinAttack]

Not to the same degree. If the developer wants to change the landscape, make things more rewarding, etc, they reserve that capacity for themself as to what power they add, and how you'll get it.

Basically though they don't want player ideas to turn into "we want more stuff!" because that will be an overwhelming perspective if allowed.

Let them build the feature with the exact realistic behavior and with proper statistics, they are perfect buddies to do that. I don't question that one, but balancing shouldn't be compromised from Dev's. That won't be a proper methodology and looks like they are under FDD and not in TDD/DDD/BDD. So these kind of problems will be repeated again and again. Not sure, how they actually does it. Their buidling design and stats, fortification concept all good, but balancing for every users got chucked out.

 

[Owl II]

When I thought the devs knew what they were doing from the spoilers, I've been gravely wrong; they don't.

Sorry, couldn't resist

 

[mcbluefire]

GE5 encounter attack boosts are ridiculous. Let's put it this way - what defense boost do you currently need to defend against a 2569/2569 attack boost?

Answer: It's a trick question. The answer is there is not a high enough defense boost to defend against it Sure, maybe 5000/5000 but there isn't enough city space to do 3000/3000 defense in SAJM!

 

[xmaxdelx]

I have built up ~3500/2500 attack and now i have to fight with my city defense? if this goes live like this i will delete my account on the same day.

 

[-Alin-]

What if InnoGames gives us 2 waves?
We are using our city defensive stats, at least let us use 2 waves of units while fighting (defending)

 

[mcbluefire]

Really, Inno? You want us to gimp ourselves in GBG just so we can do GE5? ROFL. Come on, divide the boosts on the GE5 levels by 10 and then you have a chance of this making sense. An attack by GE80 on an Iron Age player should not be more than 30%...and yet you pick over 1K? What in the world?

Maybe in SAJM an attack boost of 300 on GE80 would be reasonable at launch. But with defense boost being limited to only one portion of the game why would anyone start redesigning their cities when GbG is the best arena for fighting?

 

[xivarmy]

Really, Inno? You want us to gimp ourselves in GBG just so we can do GE5? ROFL. Come on, divide the boosts on the GE5 levels by 10 and then you have a chance of this making sense. An attack by GE80 on an Iron Age player should not be more than 30%...and yet you pick over 1K? What in the world?

Maybe in SAJM an attack boost of 300 on GE80 would be reasonable at launch. But with defense boost being limited to only one portion of the game why would anyone start redesigning their cities when GbG is the best arena for fighting?

- Iron age should be more than 30; that it's been only 75 for GE4 was probably an undershot. But maybe like 200 would be good there (for GE80 in iron)

- In higher ages, I probably would at least consider building for defense if 500 was "enough". If it had a range from 200 on the first fight to 1000 on the last fight I think I'd be ok with that too (though I don't know if I'd ever try to beat that 1000, it would give an incremental scale where I could hit 200 easily enough and enter the spot where further defense stats on buildings did not have zero value to me (maybe a few more sources will save me 1 more negotiation a week)).

 

[watt338]

From what I saw, the level 5 of the guild expedition is currently EXTREMELY flawed. I liked that Inno is trying to make city defense useful and I like that this new level is extremely diffuclt, but as things stand, it's jut not worth even doing anything whatsoever in this new level. The forgotten temple is busted, but theres is no way that I'm going to burn 10k a week to maintain that building.

In my oppinion, there's a couple of things that Inno could do to make lvl5 good:

1- Make lvl5 like the other levels so that we don't have to use our city defense. This would be perhaps the simplest solution, but I actually like the idea of making city defese useful.
2- Add new defense flasks (40%, 50% etc.) and make them easier to obtain so that it is possible to sustainably spend defensive flasks to complete the expedition. This could be done through new event buildings and also through Gbg and the PvP arena.
3- MASSIVELY reduce the defensive bonuses of enemy armies and/or MASSIVELY reduce the ammount of necessary goods to complete the expedition (10k goods a week is simply insane!)
4- Maintain things as they are but HEAVILY buff the statues that you can build (30% bonuses for your defensive army is just pathetic)
5- Mantain things as they are but reduce the ammount of fragments necessary for the new buildings and make the Forgotten Temple permanent instead of temporary. I actually quite like this idea as it would still be a huge challenge but it would essentially be something option that you could do once in a while, however the level 5 would have to stop counting for the guild race.