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Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

Beta King

Viceroy
yes it is definitely more tactical to switch sectors every 4 hours with (almost) no attriton
compared to thinking where and when to invest the limited fights players now can make

with that nerf will guilds that took the map in the first minutes in past on the first day still do that and get their attrition already high in the morning
or will it actually more tactical to wait and take the sectors later

so with the nerf the tactical side isn't going to finish. it will start :rolleyes:
I can assure you i will not be sitting around pondering how long in the day to wait or where my measley 200 fights will go, unfortunately for the leaders i will plant them anywhere there's the least attrition and in 5 minutes be done. Anyone that has ever taken GBG seriously prior to the nerf i'm sure will feel the same way. @Ninjalin since you have gave these nerf seasons a fair shake and genuinely tried in beta do you spend all day wonder when its most strategically advantagous for you to jump in and place your fights so that certain tiles are taken at the exact right time?
 
I can assure you i will not be sitting around pondering how long in the day to wait or where my measley 200 fights will go, unfortunately for the leaders i will plant them anywhere there's the least attrition and in 5 minutes be done. Anyone that has ever taken GBG seriously prior to the nerf i'm sure will feel the same way. @Ninjalin since you have gave these nerf seasons a fair shake and genuinely tried in beta do you spend all day wonder when its most strategically advantagous for you to jump in and place your fights so that certain tiles are taken at the exact right time?
You look at this from your personal perspective (what's in it for me) and not that of being part of the Guild team. For a guild to remain successful it will need to expect a level of teamwork and tactical execution not required before. Players that just jump on when they feel like it and dump attrition wherever they want will quickly become unwelcome.
 

Yekk

Regent
Regardless of how much the GbG farmers desperately try to doomsday cancel the rebalance, I'm sure the impact will be significantly less grim from a more objective point of view:

1.) FoE is an exceedingly good product for Inno, unrivalled even. It's highly unlikely that a major part of the revenue is made from diamond GbG farmers, if they're been outmatched by the real competitive top, it's probably hardly gonna chance a thing to the revenue.
Prove of the great performance of FoE was find by another player and published in this post

2.) 1,X boosts pre-existed from the GbG-farming exploits, they where running perfectly fine in profits made from GB sniping, profitable boosts, etc. using fps from virtually unlimited fps and massively large fp-producing cities the availability of fps remain enormous. The strong pull due to the benefits from 1,X boosts remain the same and as said the large fp reserves ain't going anywhere. Thus making the impact from GbG-farmers' harvests taking a hit very limited

3.) Regardless of this rebalance, the real competitive guilds will remain on top. Not motivated by GbG harvests they'll continue to dominate in 1kD like business as usual. Perhaps with a little more effort none the less they will remain competitive. Much as any other guild motivated by competitiveness rather then profitability for lone wolves in their guild.

4.) A exodus event might happen at a limited scale by the angry GbG farmers who see their "farm" yielding less "harvest." This will be fine but difficult to measure as a regular player. I'm sure Inno has the tools to their disposal to measure this and making the right decisions. As said before GbG farmers may leave but they've probably not spend real money in the game anyways as GbG farming provides them with the diamonds to fund their farming frenzy.

5.) Weak guilds won't be hit. Weak guilds can't afford SC and if they can and managed to get into the top, they've been in the wrong league. Nothing would really change for them, the strong will always be stronger and beating them.

6.) In the end there's probably hardly anything gonna change besides the real competitive top guilds claiming their thrown, af the expense of the phantom "top" guilds who only survive in SC. This is also likely true for GbG farmers. Which they probably correctly see coming and why they try to turn this topic into a echo chamber. In the end from an player's perspective it's impossible to know for sure what the impact will be the grand scale of things, only Inno has acces to the tools and knowledge for this.


As an player we all suffer from confirmation bias as all we know and experience is how we play with like minded people. If we don't like something that might make us quit, our guildies likely feel the same, assuming this to be the "majority" is just a dangerous assumption. Not being able to understanding this and taking it into account, is just leading to discussions like this: emotional and self motivated bias discussions with speculations assumed to be the truth and facts.
you ignore that it will still be easy to stuff guilds for the guilds that do so now. that will have players leaving.

you ignore that GBG plays a large part in a worlds economy...like the costs of everything right now? supply disruptions are real

unless they fix the other mistakes GBG has we all lose. Which maybe just what Inno wants. If we leave maybe we will go to their new game where we start at scratch and they make more money.

Mughal...Arena...Guild Perks... Inno has shown they are not exceptional at making what players want.
 

Beta King

Viceroy
You look at this from your personal perspective (what's in it for me) and not that of being part of the Guild team. For a guild to remain successful it will need to expect a level of teamwork and tactical execution not required before. Players that just jump on when they feel like it and dump attrition wherever they want will quickly become unwelcome.
If your in a dominating guild like I am that will take the whole map in 48 hours and then it will be stagnant the remaining 9 days waiting for someone to flip a tile(same as Ninjalin's screenshots/situation) then why in the world would you kick someone that is maxing their attrition every day when there are always some in every strong guild that wont even use their attrition every day. My guess is they will be the ones kicked and every guild has them regardless strength.
 
you ignore that it will still be easy to stuff guilds for the guilds that do so now. that will have players leaving.
The data is insufficient to support this conclusion.
you ignore that GBG plays a large part in a worlds economy...like the costs of everything right now? supply disruptions are real
Each world's economy worked fine before GBG was introduced (age of world not withstanding). Relative to this economy, at worst, the change will slow down the pace of running the tech tree and levelling GBs. This may not be a bad thing.

unless they fix the other mistakes GBG has we all lose. Which maybe just what Inno wants. If we leave maybe we will go to their new game where we start at scratch and they make more money.
The SC/WT change could set the stage for more adjustments, or not. That's up to INNO. We'll just have to wait and see, or not. That's up to each player.
 
If your in a dominating guild like I am that will take the whole map in 48 hours and then it will be stagnant the remaining 9 days waiting for someone to flip a tile(same as Ninjalin's screenshots/situation) then why in the world would you kick someone that is maxing their attrition every day when there are always some in every strong guild that wont even use their attrition every day. My guess is they will be the ones kicked and every guild has them regardless strength.
I think you may be applying pre-nerf tactics to the post-nerf world. Yes, @-NinjAlin- shared a screenshot showing that his guild captured all of R1/R2 and most of R3 on the Volcano map and was waiting for the other guilds to take them. This seems to be a poor tactical decision post-nerf. In order to achieve anything resembling pre-nerf swapping the dominant guild will need to leave some number of the R2 sectors open so that the other guilds have an opportunity to leverage them into lower attrition. Swaps probably won't be between the top two guilds in the future. More sharing will be necessary, I think. We'll see soon enough.
 

Yekk

Regent
The data is insufficient to support this conclusion.

Each world's economy worked fine before GBG was introduced (age of world not withstanding). Relative to this economy, at worst, the change will slow down the pace of running the tech tree and levelling GBs. This may not be a bad thing.


The SC/WT change could set the stage for more adjustments, or not. That's up to INNO. We'll just have to wait and see, or not. That's up to each player.
You do not play on beta... I do see you have been going bonkers leveling on your Arc on live. That means you agree with me more than the other side...


That said you are also wrong on players burning their att and thusly not being welcome in strong guilds. Beta has shown that to be just the opposite. GBG tile movement is like the tide with the nerf. There is no strategy just brute force movement. Best guilds fight more and retake what they lose. Very best do that all the way to the enemy's base.

Putting you back on ignore...
 

Yekk

Regent
Thats because it only makes sense in their own mind
It must be exhausting to them repeating the same thing over and over
So its time to post things that dont make any sense

The last resort of a person running out of arguments
I get it its easier to ignore someone then to defend repetitive ludicrous assumptions
My words are sound. You also do not play on beta. I do...

I have not seen any ideas from you on fixing GBG. Nothing that addresses the imbalances in how leagues are formed. Nothing that helps the weaker guilds.

Many ideas are here but you choose to attack those... My question is WHY??? Everyone knows GBG is busted. Yet you are against fixing it...The nerf is not a fix...3800+ posts here with the majority against this nerf.
 
My words are sound. You also do not play on beta. I do...

I have not seen any ideas from you on fixing GBG. Nothing that addresses the imbalances in how leagues are formed. Nothing that helps the weaker guilds.

Many ideas are here but you choose to attack those... My question is WHY??? Everyone knows GBG is busted. Yet you are against fixing it...The nerf is not a fix...3800+ posts here with the majority against this nerf.
Read the title of this thread and you will get the reason for your questions "why". Everything that you ask for is off topic. INNO never asked for suggestions about how to "fix" GBG beyond the SC/WT change.
 

Yekk

Regent
Read the title of this thread and you will get the reason for your questions "why". Everything that you ask for is off topic. INNO never asked for suggestions about how to "fix" GBG beyond the SC/WT change.
Juber ended that title that when he moved it here...

Your Arc went from 141 to the mid 150's since the nerf began. 2 months... Impressive Your guild on T will win its league tonight.

The real question is WHY they made the nerf. Not to stop bots. That is a very easy to do delay action done server side. Once a fight ends it would take a certain amount of time before a new json asking to fight again happens. Server load is my best guess as the nerf will not stop your guild stopping almost every guild in almost every league by teaming up then circling the 3's as you did early that league.
 

Yekk

Regent
Read the title of this thread and you will get the reason for your questions "why". Everything that you ask for is off topic. INNO never asked for suggestions about how to "fix" GBG beyond the SC/WT change.
they did ask about the nerf though...

back on ignore for you
 
they did ask about the nerf though...

back on ignore for you
Yes, they did, but the suggestions that you asked for are not aspects of the nerf.

BTW, the ignore feature only has value if the player initiating the ignore actually has the self-discipline to not "peek".
 

Owl II

Emperor
Yes, they did, but the suggestions that you asked for are not aspects of the nerf.

BTW, the ignore feature only has value if the player initiating the ignore actually has the self-discipline to not "peek".
Yeah.. Let's write down the lack of self-discipline in the list of your advantages:D
I don't understand this metaphor. If the "harvest" takes longer to "ripen" how can the top guilds take as many "beds" (sectors??) as before? This makes no sense. With zero attrition, in order for a top guild to take the same amount of "beds" as before it will need to have about 50 active strong fighters playing daily and be matched up with at least one other guild with similar strength. Possible but very unlikely.
That's not the only thing you don't understand. A broad outlook hinders, probably. Medicine is powerless here.

To the metaphor: a bed - in the sense of a garden bed. There is a fixed number of garden beds on any map. There can't be more or less of them. It is important how many times a day you will harvest. Tops will not share beds. They will just harvest less often. It's all.

For a better understanding: I could say not "beds", but "plots". But the imagination of nerf supporters does not extend so far. They just want a small garden bed for themselves and don't want to think where it grows from
 
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Yeah.. Let's write down the lack of self-discipline in the list of your advantages:D

That's not the only thing you don't understand. A broad outlook hinders, probably. Medicine is powerless here.

To the metaphor: a bed - in the sense of a garden bed. There is a fixed number of garden beds on any map. There can't be more or less of them. It is important how many times a day you will harvest. Tops will not share beds. They will just harvest less often. It's all.

For a better understanding: I could say not "beds", but "plots". But the imagination of nerf supporters does not extend so far. They just want a small garden bed for themselves and don't want to think where it grows from
Maybe you should skip the metaphors. So, what you are saying is that that the dominant guilds will capture the same number of sectors as before the nerf but that they will swap them less often than they did before the nerf. I agree, but this has been said dozens of times before in this thread. Nothing new here.
 

Yekk

Regent
Yeah.. Let's write down the lack of self-discipline in the list of your advantages:D

That's not the only thing you don't understand. A broad outlook hinders, probably. Medicine is powerless here.

To the metaphor: a bed - in the sense of a garden bed. There is a fixed number of garden beds on any map. There can't be more or less of them. It is important how many times a day you will harvest. Tops will not share beds. They will just harvest less often. It's all.

For a better understanding: I could say not "beds", but "plots". But the imagination of nerf supporters does not extend so far. They just want a small garden bed for themselves and don't want to think where it grows from
I agree. He misses how the rebalance is anything but that. This thread is about how the nerf might/may/will affect players on live. Without Inno's input we can only guess at their reasoning on why it is needed but how it will play is another thing all together.

Does it allow every guild on a map in 1K to get tiles? No, 2 strong guilds can easily stuff the ones they see as undesirable.
Does it give more fights to most players? No, as most players do not do GBG. Even in top guilds some are just farmers.
It does not help the economy of a world. Absolutely not. Total rewards go down not up. A reality of less fights.
 

King Flush

Marquis
yes it is definitely more tactical to switch sectors every 4 hours with (almost) no attriton
compared to thinking where and when to invest the limited fights players now can make

with that nerf will guilds that took the map in the first minutes in past on the first day still do that and get their attrition already high in the morning
or will it actually more tactical to wait and take the sectors later

so with the nerf the tactical side isn't going to finish. it will start :rolleyes:
yea there will be loads of tactics when on for 15 mins tops to get attritioned out, you live in a dream world and think have a pretty poor understanding of GBG
 

King Flush

Marquis
Each world's economy worked fine before GBG was introduced (age of world not withstanding). Relative to this economy, at worst, the change will slow down the pace of running the tech tree and levelling GBs. This may not be a bad thing.
The whole things were fine before GBG point I've heard before to suggest the game will still be enjoyed after the nerf is a bit like saying surgery was fine in the middle ages when amputations were done with a saw and no anaesthetic but wouldn't wish to return when things are better now, this whole thing is a major step back, not a good one.
 

Thunderdome

Emperor
In my absence, the guild I am a part of had done their GBg. Some weeks they had it good; others they had it rough. It's pretty much a numbers game as well as how much strength they have as well to be able to capture sectors the fastest before the attrition gets to the max point.

Would I say this nerf changed the game, from my point of view? Yes, it did because without any SC/WT, my attrition would be maxed after 50 fights (which is 1/3 of the progress bar of 160). With only 66.6%, it's just a relative 50% chance of having attrition rise up or just stay the same (that's the way I see it in my eyes); I would get about 60-80 fights in. At full 100%, it would have been smooth sailing at no attrition increase; or "sky's the limit" runnings.

Here's my thing, though. How could anyone attain thousands of fights each day via normal means? It takes me about a 15-20 second run to auto a battle because I have to check on my troops to replace the ones that needed to be swapped out as well as going to the rogues department and doing the same. In 50 fights, I would have gone through 10 to 15 minutes of my time by clicking buttons and boxes and swapping troops before I get tired and get out of GBg to do something else. To even get one thousand fights, you would have to spend 3.5 to 5 hours just on GBg alone if there were not any sectors to be locked up.

Again, I will mention that the rewards do not come each time (I wish it did so it will make doing such under this new change much more rewarding for those who have limited max attrition values) so "farming" of such is irrelevant.

For those that can "farm" thousands of fights before this nerf happened, they are running a bot or some script, which is something that Inno should have focused on and not throwing a monkey wrench into something that everyone else wants to partake in, especially the lower ages who are in good guilds that are in the diamond league.

I foresee a day where I will be released from the guild I am in as I am pretty much working for a well known company in the world and had placed my emphasis on working hard and making a great deal of money. For now, I will do as much as I can when able to.
 
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