Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

[TheAmazingCW]

Here's an idea

I voted yes: FoE was a build-a-city-game most of its time, and 2.5 years ago, it became more and more a click-to-win-game. I changed my city to this and placed a lot of 3x3 attack buildings (Winners Plaza, Botanical Rotunda, etc.) because earning extra FP in GBG was more important than the harvest from the city itself.
Why not change back again to the original goal? Life is about adaption to new circumstances, and this in not even life itself, it's only a game. No need for me to get upset.

why not just opt out of playing GbG and build your idea of a perfect city?

 

[sirblu]

Again this is not a majority decision?
Did you even ask for a vote on this or just go with the moaners.
Whatever you do it will not work, so leave it as it is.
Oh and bin gvg if you want to sort anything out.

The vote is still open - please see the first page

 

[Thunderdome]

Don't take me wrong it's not a critique , but i read you can affort 43% attrition (maybe higher i don't know, but that is not important)

But is that not the real gameplay to bring up your att/def so you can affort more attrition and do more normal fights without exploiting camps and go for free rides.

Oh none taken, mate. I am just placing my benchmark data to be compared with others. Clearly, a small player will not be able to get far towards this attrition value. Whereas, the bigger player will probably have a little bit of a difference but no difficulty to reach this and beyond. Hence why I said this "one size fits all" method should be reversed and better methods to be implemented in dealing with the current problem like others had suggested.

 

[GeniePower]

Story time.

Live US world, so no changes yet. 1000 LP Diamond league. My guild is the strongest guild on the server for both GBG as well as GvG. Our matchup this week:
2 guilds that are not capable of capping a single tile in less than 3 days
5 guilds that performed reasonably at opening

After initial opening I picked 2 to swap a half map with. Unfortunately I had a RL hickup after that so have not been online a lot since, but the rest of leadership added a 3rd swap partner to the mix less than 12 hours later.
So we have 3 guilds that have to swap 1/3 of the map.
I get that that leaves them generally with less than full support, but still. There's several freebies available for them and they have to be able to eat some attrition, right? These are 1000 LP guilds after all!
The map is stale and has been stale from the start of the season. If we get 2 flips per day, it's a lot! The map sits, and sits, and sits, waiting to be loaded by anyone. Whether swap partner or the 2 that are excluded, we no longer care! If just anyone would do anything, we'd be thrilled!
Sometimes, about twice a day, someone will come online requesting a tile to be swapped so they can have 4 instead of 3 camps so they can start loading their softlocks. 2 hours later that loading still hasn't happened. Meanwhile all timers are off. If anything opens, we don't care if it has 5, 4, 3, 2 or even 1 SC support, we're on it like wolves on prey. No one is ever attritioned out. No one ever shows up anymore because they gave up hope of ever having anything to hit.
The two that are supposedly being pinned down have free roam of the map whenever they feel like doing something, and we're happy when that happens because we'll have something to take back.
If this is our future, my guild is dead outside of the 8-9 pm window for GvG.

Now tell me what it will look like when these guilds don't even have freebies anymore. We'll swipe the map on Thursday and are done for the season. Tell me how SC support is a problem but league placement isn't.

 

[sirblu]

I think the issue here is that Inno is trying to stop the farming "Swapping" of sectors in GbG. Honestly, that was the best advantage of GbG because it added a competitive aspect to GbG that was sorely missing. And, Sector swaping usually only happens in the Platinum and Diamond leagues. It is rarely seen in the lower legues. While it is true that the larger Guilds mostly controled this, Smaller Guilds like mine were able to occassionally hold their own and get in a number of good fights to boost our Guild. Most of my Guildmates play on mobile so GvG to boost the Guild level was not available to most of them. Why not just do away with attrition altogether and make GbG more like GvG where your fighting power depends on your Guild Support Pool.

 

[jovada]

we don't care if it has 5, 4, 3, 2 or even 1 SC support, we're on it like wolves on prey. No one is ever attritioned out.

? Then i don't see what is the problem by limiting camps to -66.6% , it makes no change at all for you then.

 

[NandodeMC]

? Then i don't see what is the problem by limiting camps to -66.6% , it makes no change at all for you then.

That's the point, the map is still going to be theirs, they still won't have sectors to make battles

 

[Owl II]

1) How are beach dwellers worse off? They had little to no benefit of sieges before. And will get about the same benefit now. i.e. they might occasionally get 2 siege support, but 2 siege support isn't much worse than it was. They might have more time to actually take a sector before it goes into lockout again - so in that way they might benefit.

2) It may affect somewhat the position of the guilds in the leagues - not because of what happens in diamond, but because of what happens in platinum to determine who goes to diamond. With an increased focus on which guild can handle the most attrition vs which guild can build lots of siege camps once they're out of the gate, it should encourage guilds that are more capable of doing their thing without buildings to be the ones that rise to be beach dwellers. One of the guilds I'm in definitely falls in the category impacted by this: we have an effectively endless treasury that lets us win platinum comfortably atm. But we are usually in the bottom half in terms of speed out of the gate in those rounds. Sometimes even being last in platinum on the first day - but winding up winning more often than not by the end. These changes may let an actually-stronger guild take the place instead and give us better matching to maybe more often get a fun, competitive round.

I didn't say it should be worse for them. Everything will remain the same for them. They will still sit on the sand and shout that life is unfair. Game is unfair And I think that all these precious metals of yours will be little affected.
Personally, I am not upset by the very of nerf. But it makes me very angry that instead of real balancing, they kick the active part of the players again. Not for the first time

 

[jovada]

Now tell me what it will look like when these guilds don't even have freebies anymore. We'll swipe the map on Thursday and are done for the season. Tell me how SC support is a problem but league placement isn't.

And where did those guild received the freebies???? Maybe your guild is one of the friendly and let them come to middle to have freebies , and if the big guild is stupid enough to take all map and does'nt allow others to fight they shoot in their own feet.

 

[GeniePower]

And where did those guild received the freebies???? Maybe your guild is one of the friendly and let them come to middle to have freebies , and if the big guild is stupid enough to take all map and does'nt allow others to fight they shoot in their own feet.

We're definitely not nice. When paired with another strong enough guild, we beach everyone else. But guilds we swap with get tiles and also freebies (tiles without attrition) because we set up a checker

 

[GeniePower]

? Then i don't see what is the problem by limiting camps to -66.6% , it makes no change at all for you then.

Correct. The change will let every season be like this where my guys refuse to log in. Where we don't spend goods, let alone diamonds, on camps.

It's Friday. Most of the time we swap half a map and by Friday we'd have around 80k hits guild wide. We now have full map so theoretically that should be 160k. It's 60k.

 

[Zuckerberg the Horrid]

I voted yes: FoE was a build-a-city-game most of its time, and 2.5 years ago, it became more and more a click-to-win-game. I changed my city to this and placed a lot of 3x3 attack buildings (Winners Plaza, Botanical Rotunda, etc.) because earning extra FP in GBG was more important than the harvest from the city itself.
Why not change back again to the original goal? Life is about adaption to new circumstances, and this in not even life itself, it's only a game. No need for me to get upset.

No-one forced you to redo your city towards attack

I've kept my top-5 city on a US server oriented towards daily FP, my attack has always been under 1000. For the longest time even in SAAB it was like 650 or so. I don't build stuff I find to be ugly (so I don't build a LOT..) and I couldn't really care less about this change's impact to my personal game since I barely touch GVG unless we need to race something, leaving things for others who enjoy it more and supporting them by helping on the non-free stuff.

You're advocating removing a playstyle just because you don't like it anymore. The game should have more playstyles. Enough people have already quit over the CF/RQ changes (I know 4 infinite CF's that quit! Vuxia, Boogiewoogie, ValkerieAnd, LeneJM, I swear there's another just in my own small circle but can't finger them right now) It sucks to watch friends leave the game in droves with every change because Inno decides their playstyle isn't worthy. Another new friend, Morbius, is quitting over the new GVG bugs that started on the last update and had previously quit years ago due to GVG bugs but then came back because he thought they were fixed. I on the other hand only play because of the friends I've made, my city is designed around helping others (on my team) grow, and I'm seeing people leave in droves. Soon nobody will be left. 5 years of gaming down the drain. Why not keep some of these playstyle choices around? Not everyone plays the same way you do.

 

[Owl II]

yeah, the ranking system also needs an overhaul, but that has been clear since 2 years... it just is not very easy to find a transparent solution for that and someone has to implement it...

my take on it: https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/jubers-gbg-suggestions.15503/post-135500

Obviously, it is technically easier to cut the SC than to solve the problem with the match guilds by groups

 

[Zuckerberg the Horrid]

Story time.

Live US world, so no changes yet. 1000 LP Diamond league. My guild is the strongest guild on the server for both GBG as well as GvG. Our matchup this week:
2 guilds that are not capable of capping a single tile in less than 3 days
5 guilds that performed reasonably at opening

After initial opening I picked 2 to swap a half map with. Unfortunately I had a RL hickup after that so have not been online a lot since, but the rest of leadership added a 3rd swap partner to the mix less than 12 hours later.
So we have 3 guilds that have to swap 1/3 of the map.
I get that that leaves them generally with less than full support, but still. There's several freebies available for them and they have to be able to eat some attrition, right? These are 1000 LP guilds after all!
The map is stale and has been stale from the start of the season. If we get 2 flips per day, it's a lot! The map sits, and sits, and sits, waiting to be loaded by anyone. Whether swap partner or the 2 that are excluded, we no longer care! If just anyone would do anything, we'd be thrilled!
Sometimes, about twice a day, someone will come online requesting a tile to be swapped so they can have 4 instead of 3 camps so they can start loading their softlocks. 2 hours later that loading still hasn't happened. Meanwhile all timers are off. If anything opens, we don't care if it has 5, 4, 3, 2 or even 1 SC support, we're on it like wolves on prey. No one is ever attritioned out. No one ever shows up anymore because they gave up hope of ever having anything to hit.
The two that are supposedly being pinned down have free roam of the map whenever they feel like doing something, and we're happy when that happens because we'll have something to take back.
If this is our future, my guild is dead outside of the 8-9 pm window for GvG.

Now tell me what it will look like when these guilds don't even have freebies anymore. We'll swipe the map on Thursday and are done for the season. Tell me how SC support is a problem but league placement isn't.

my guild just came off an 8 season streak of no competition,
to get the only other good GBG guild on our server

so our story is generally the same
but add that when we're in a competitive season, it looks to the small guilds like we are "swapping" even though we are not friends with any of the other big guilds on our server and generally wouldn't do that, we will swap with small guilds to make it easier on them to participate so that being paired with only small guilds doesn't completely bore everyone.
So in a season like our current one, we get small guilds reaching out to us asking to be added to our swap with the other guild..lol...
I think it adds doubt to the entire thesis.
Top tier competitive matches are currently based on who burns out or has poor execution- which guild can flip everything a few moments before the tick without forgetting, which guild can take all the 4th/5th ring high attrition sectors, which guild can ensure that everything gets flipped before the power tick after it opens so that they don't lose power to the other, and a LITTLE bit of strategy in sector ordering, to try to swap the tile orders on the other guild in hopes of getting them off the map for a few hours, and preventing that from happening to you.
Small guilds see this as swapping and farming.
Maybe some guilds actually do exclusively farm but at least on my server, everyone's at each other's throats.

 

[Owl II]

Please share your stories with them more often. Maybe they will stop cry about how greedy whales humiliate everything around

 

[kama]

You do not seem to have understood the current system...

The players in big guilds currently make less profits than the players in 20 member guilds, simply because there are not enough progress points available to fully use up their attrition potential.

Now big guilds finally will make sense again for the personal gain - only the big guild will be able to get to the center and make more fights on low attrition.

The GBG will now finally get closer to what they were intended to be from the get go - "not a 24/7 feature". And the endless farmerama will have an end.

Personally, I would be fine without the cap, or with a higher cap. The gains above 4 camps do not seem too big...

The only thing standing in the way of a proper ranking now are the given LP gains/losses such that guilds do not continue to be on a roller-coaster...

You are right about one thing..Big builds will have the advantage. Small guilds will be at a serious disadvantage now.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Obviously, it is technically easier to cut the SC than to solve the problem with the match guilds by groups

It seems that you are assuming that the SC nerf is INNO's response to players wanting better guild matchups. Maybe, but probably not. I'm inclined to accept the explanation that the nerf is what the announcement says it is, an effort to eliminate zero attrition from GBG. In which case what they are doing will accomplish that. Anyone that read "Who Moved My Cheese" understands that the next decision is (1) wait for the "cheese" to come back, or (2) go looking for new "cheese". I, for one, am in the latter camp.

 

[jovada]

Please share your stories with them more often. Maybe they will stop cry about how greedy whales humiliate everything around

Another statement that says nothing, it is not because one guild is clever enough to allow smaller guilds to do their battles (witch is in their own interest also cause they can do more battles by swapping with that guild) that 10 other guilds works 2 by 2 together to control everything and swap together to do all the fights and take all the profit because they ar to greedy to allow another guild to do some fights and have some profit.

 

[Sholp]

Very good change !
Farming FP and points will be killed.

 

[Donna a Macskabolond]

Another statement that says nothing, it is not because one guild is clever enough to allow smaller guilds to do their battles (witch is in their own interest also cause they can do more battles by swapping with that guild) that 10 other guilds works 2 by 2 together to control everything and swap together to do all the fights and take all the profit because they ar to greedy to allow another guild to do some fights and have some profit.

Looks like Jovada you haven't been around a lot in 1000LP.
In half of the seasons there is no chance for two guilds to dominate the map because there is no 2 strong enough guilds to dominate. I don't say it never happens but not that often as some of you claims. ONE guild can't dominate anything just swipe the map than wait. Sometimes for days for the other guilds to take some sectors back.

usually the biggest guild try to make alliances with some guilds for swapping. 1/2 map, 1/4 map, just 2-4 tile, anything just get something out of the other guilds. There were times when we have some kind of agreement with all the guilds in the group.
Beaching? Sometimes, when the group is strong enough for it. Begging? More often. And not the small guilds will beg

please before you start your speech about greed try to find out what really happens in your world in the diamond league.