Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

[TARS]

Clearly this player has been "cheating" with some sort of hack. How they can be in Industrial Era and currently battling Iron Age units in GBg? A real GBg encounter is always the same age units of the participating player.

I wondered that too. Maybe he jumped up after the GbG start?
I thought the attrition was capped at 150? The attrition in the video is completely insane.
But I realize in the video that it stays at the maximum 12000%.

 

[Juber]

And now enough off topic. Please go back to the topic of the actual change.

 

[MJ Artisan of War]

The 66.6 attrition change is totally horrible.... There... back on topic....

 

[CrashBoom]

the change is great.

can't wait to see it on live servers

 

[Kev-]

Abysmal idea whoever dreamt that up needs a P45 sort out your Guild selection so Guilds are more evenly matched and there is no issue.
Why pander to the few that shout and scream but are not willing to put the work in to elevate themselves to a position from which they can be a top Guild. As it is all Guilds if they can co ordinate fighters can use the support to extend junior members fights getting them the rewards to grow and feed there cities. Even lowly players if they co ordinate fighters and get a bunch on together at the same time can overturn the big hitters in the current format, once they are fight limited that will never happen. Some of these guys whinging need to step up get a decent GBG lead to co ordinate and put the effort in.

 

[Thunderdome]

And now enough off topic. Please go back to the topic of the actual change.

Okay, you start. Give us a solid reason why this change is necessary.

1. What created this change in the first place? "Imbalance" is not acceptable as this change has brought the "imbalance" by limiting the small to medium players more than your typical "He-Man/She-Ra" type of players.
2. Was it supposedly to affect a certain league, certain types of players, or everyone in all leagues?
3. At higher levels of attack power, certain things can be done with ease (just a small number of fights missing from the daily norm), does the Inno development team take into consideration that this might have a large impact on the smaller players (or players that are just starting to play the game) or ones that have a substantial attack power that can do GE?
4. Does Inno even play their own game to know what the impact might be at all levels (not just with a super-infinite resource account)?

I know some of us will answer this, but I want someone from the liaison portion of Inno to kindly answer these.

 

[Zuckerberg the Horrid]

the weak ones which didn't take the first sector in the first 15 minutes

in short again
guilds which don't even let other their starting sector deserve that cap

you do realize that for an 'elite' guild to take half (or all) of the map in the 15 minutes after the map opens, which is required in case there's another strong guild on the map that they could be competing with (since those first 4 hours are the only 'free' points you can get, they can completely change the competition), they have to plan attendance for the 3 days between the GBG seasons to make sure there'll be enough, and have leaders basically begging more people to commit until enough people have changed their work plans or agree (like me) to wake up at 5am?

If your guild can't be bothered to wake up at 5am PST or schedule an 8am EST poo right when they arrive at work, why should the stronger guild dilly dally around waiting for you to take the sector in front of your HQ, when the rest of your guild will be awake with you 4h later when it reopens?

Although your guild is too small and incompetent to understand, taking the sector in front of your HQ as quick as possible, before you waste your attrition trying, is the nicest thing that they can do. You will have more people awake when it reopens, and you'll have a chance to win camps off of your opponent when you eventually take it.

 

[-Alin-]

The 66.6 attrition change is totally horrible.... There... back on topic....

That's Something accentuated in the past years from InnoGames, are needed lots of feedbacks to redo or atleast the nerf they did to be "improved".
So I wonder if they really want to revert this anymore, but atleast they could do this:

I will be fine With 75-80% camps reduction, I will be able to do around 500+ fights a day if I am lucky with swaps, in this way If others from the same guild are showing up for swaps will have similar numbers to the ones at the top(+-1-2k), there will not be that discrepancy of fights between the first and the 20th, first having like 18k, second 14, third 11k and others 8k, 5k, 3k.
People will still be able to "farm" but not that exagerated as before, some of them having more fights than the others due to their higher stats, no more 2-3k fights a day from 100% reduction, in this way, the other people from that guild will "benefit too" from the sectors swapped, not only the "whales/grinders"-which had the advantage of more time for game or even the small players with lower stats (I know, this sounds greedy from me, but we worked too to reach the "top" and our stats) ...
Also reduce the round from 11 to 5 days, it will avoid the "burnout" for some players, leaders which will be around from time to time for coordination, that's one of the reasons some of my guildies don't want to coordinate or not play at all GbG like we used to do in the past.

Now the choice is at the people, If they prefer to grind or just move sectors like we did with madcheninternat in this round where we fought against them, but with the camps there, no one deleting them, no coordination at all, first came, first to take the sectors and "lock the others" then taking back the sectors and so on.

BUT a problem will still persist, moderate guilds and smaller/new players that reached somehow diamond will be again cornered due to the bad matchmakings, if 2-4 bigger guilds are there they will manage to swap the map in 4, but the other 3-4 guilds will just do whatever they can and look at the others.
Another league "Crystal" should work, I think, in which only the "Best guilds" could fight or swap there, the ones with huge treasuries and very active players.
In diamond and Platinum will play the moderate guilds with people pretty active and below these leagues the other ones, where they can improve their rewards or try to swap at their power.
Not sure how good is the idea with Crystal league, might have be missing something here.

 

[Zuckerberg the Horrid]

Matchmaking was originally League > LP > Random. Inno changed it to League > LP > Guild ID. Once people noticed and complained (and started predicting matches exactly) they returned it to League > LP > Random

actually worse, the current form is "League > Random" not "League > LP > Random"

another case of developers not playing their own game, once that League > LP > Guild ID bug happened, the person fixing it didn't know what the original situation was, didn't care to find a better solution, and probably didn't even know it was something that previously worked fine. Now there's so many 1000LP guilds that it wouldn't be as good, but it would at least be a lot better.

 

[jovada]

I always said a fair GbG should be 1 sector in every slot , everebody equal , strong guildes would still rule but that's normal if they are strong, but they would fights each other and not share the exploit together, the rewards should be earned and not exploited.

Addition instead of giving 175 125 and 75 points they should for example only gain 75 50 and 25 points, the lower points could be the same, that way it would take you more effort to reach next division and drop quicker if you can't keep up. This results that in a 1000LP you probably have always 4 strong guilds instead of two swapping or 1 imploring smaller to please fight, and it would be more fun for them.

 

[CrashBoom]

Addition instead of giving 175 125 and 75 points they should for example only gain 75 50 and 25 points, the lower points could be the same, that way it would take you more effort to reach next division and drop quicker if you can't keep up.

and no LP cap at 1000

 

[Kev-]

If you want to be really radical give all Guilds x number of jokers that can be played only after day one or x number of hours from the start. Plant that and the next sector would be Zero Attrition now that would really mix up things with the possibility of unexpected attacks coming from all directions and with careful planning anyone on the map could have there time in the centre. But above all else nothing will work if you don't sort the Guild selection process out.

 

[DEADP00L]

and no LP cap at 1000

Inno, do as for the arena with a discount of 10% between each GbG but remove this ceiling!

 

[Knight Roland]

Yeah, previous age probably 1 or 2 ages on average, not a whopping 5 age spread.

it takes months to prepare for a swoop through several ages. once fully prepared you can do it right after the GBG round started. i did it from post modern era to future in one go. Fighting with hovertanks against post modern units was fun while it lasted

 

[planetofthehumans2]

Plat leauge - top 10 strongest LP guilds in two battlefields. Cant go up to plat unless you get in the top 10 which is theoretically possible for the lowest two guilds to drop league.

Just waiting for inno to release a statement in the next 3 days now that GBG session is ending.

 

[delfire1]

Why not just make sure the largest guilds with the most high level fighters get a much easier time of taking all the rewards oh that's correct you just did !!!!!!!

 

[xivarmy]

That's Something accentuated in the past years from InnoGames, are needed lots of feedbacks to redo or atleast the nerf they did to be "improved".
So I wonder if they really want to revert this anymore, but atleast they could do this:

I will be fine With 75-80% camps reduction, I will be able to do around 500+ fights a day if I am lucky with swaps, in this way If others from the same guild are showing up for swaps will have similar numbers to the ones at the top(+-1-2k), there will not be that discrepancy of fights between the first and the 20th, first having like 18k, second 14, third 11k and others 8k, 5k, 3k.
People will still be able to "farm" but not that exagerated as before, some of them having more fights than the others due to their higher stats, no more 2-3k fights a day from 100% reduction, in this way, the other people from that guild will "benefit too" from the sectors swapped, not only the "whales/grinders"-which had the advantage of more time for game or even the small players with lower stats (I know, this sounds greedy from me, but we worked too to reach the "top" and our stats) ...
Also reduce the round from 11 to 5 days, it will avoid the "burnout" for some players, leaders which will be around from time to time for coordination, that's one of the reasons some of my guildies don't want to coordinate or not play at all GbG like we used to do in the past.

Now the choice is at the people, If they prefer to grind or just move sectors like we did with madcheninternat in this round where we fought against them, but with the camps there, no one deleting them, no coordination at all, first came, first to take the sectors and "lock the others" then taking back the sectors and so on.

BUT a problem will still persist, moderate guilds and smaller/new players that reached somehow diamond will be again cornered due to the bad matchmakings, if 2-4 bigger guilds are there they will manage to swap the map in 4, but the other 3-4 guilds will just do whatever they can and look at the others.
Another league "Crystal" should work, I think, in which only the "Best guilds" could fight or swap there, the ones with huge treasuries and very active players.
In diamond and Platinum will play the moderate guilds with people pretty active and below these leagues the other ones, where they can improve their rewards or try to swap at their power.
Not sure how good is the idea with Crystal league, might have be missing something here.

The problem with the "another league" is that without changes almost all the diamond guilds (including the yoyo ones) will just move there instead. Their current math clusters guilds around the boundaries (0 and 1000). moving the upper boundary higher wouldn't change much.

They have to change the calculation method if they're going to thin out what constitutes a guild that belongs in the "top" groupings. Predominantly, more groups need to lose points - so that every group gold or above say is trying to push some of its constituents down on average.

It doesn't even have to be a big tweak to have dramatic results. Something like "all places -5 in gold, -10 in platinum, -15 in diamond" would probably half-or-more the number of guilds in diamond in the long run.

 

[knarre sbeat]

The Watchtower and Siege re-balance is neccessary imo, limiting fights per player opens oppertunitys for other players that wouldnt make the 3 minute window for a attrition free sector. Most of the times players left in my guild without the oppertunity to do even 1Fight with full attrition, becouse there are just no open sectors and if they open, you have 2-3 minutes max.
Really looking forward to see it change for the better.

 

[PackCat]

who tells you i havent deleted severall beta accounts already.
Also i been following the GBG thread from the start, not this one, the other. https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/guild-battlegrounds.10852/
So me and others waiting a long time for a change.

I agree that something needs to change, but punishing EVERYONE because INNO doesn't want or know how to suppress cheaters, is unfair to everyone.
A better solution would be to limit fights to 500 VP per day. That would be acceptable to 95% of the crowd. The other 5% are just greedy pork and they are not going to agree to anything that hinders their 1000+ VP per day. Also, INNO has a responsibility to make map opponents more competitive and not match a strong fighting Guild with a bunch of weak Guilds that could not find the center if they were the only Guild on the map. There are too many non-attacking Guilds in Diamond. It should mean something or create a special group (Crystal?) that only has the top 20 competitors in it. Have 4 groups of 5 contestants each season. Rotate it around. If a diamond Guild proves itself strong and worthy, promote them and bounce the lowest performer in crystal.
Make it cut-throat competition among peers. IF they want to swap sectors and share prizes, that is no one else's business. No more complaining from weak Guilds about other Guilds/Players who prepare to fight and they could play much better with less powerful Guilds in their grouping.

The current idea is not going to help anyone. It is certainly not going to help the Guilds that sit in their base and do not build camps. They will not even notice or benefit from capping SC attrition, which is shortsighted and taking the easy fix for INNO while handicapping everyone who fights.
This will not balance anything. The whales will still find a way to get their points even if they have to write a negotiation script to do the same as the fight one does already.

The Main reason weaker Guilds are locked in their base, is because they usually have a history of being erratic, and cannot be trusted to work with the map. They simply want to be disruptors and screw up the map for EVERYONE. It is much easier to contain them than to get them to cooperate.
With the change if it goes live, will be even worse on weaker players/Guilds.

Whether INNO likes it or not, at the end of the day GBG is about winning resources such as goods, FP, slim diamonds, and a few units, etc.
If they want to take that away, it will drive away lot of the interest.

 

[PackCat]

Good for you but did you do it out of benevolence or selfishness? Because, otherwise, there would have been less sectors to swap for rewards.

That is the other problem for stronger Guilds.... they have to hold hands and direct the weaker Guilds to do the right actions that help them.
They do not mind helping the weaker Guilds, but now it is like back-stabbing to only go after the strong Guilds and not punish the weak Guilds for being inactive and not working hard to win.