Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

[Pericles the Lion]

Most people are articulating quite well the technical impact this change will have,

Correction. "Most people are articulating quite well the technical personal impact this change will may have.

 

[Owl II]

Divide Leagues into groupings... Taking the first 2 pages of Prestige ratings would be a good start. (Top 20 Guilds)
It gives 4 random season contests with 5 Guilds each to compete every season.
Having 8 Guilds in a single contest is asking for trouble if INNO wants to feed the weak.
The reason I use Prestige is because it has a direct relationship to Guild social participation in its calculations.

The majority of what INNO is seemingly trying to address are somewhat within those 20 Guilds.
That is approximately (avg. ~60 players per Guild) 1,200 players of which is probably at least 450 of the top 1,000 players in a world.
~125M for the top 1K player.

That's a lot of whales in battle against each other. It allows every other Guild to play their own game at their own pace in their own contests away from being totally dominated. It loses their argument for being locked out by dominant Guilds.

Someone can whip out a spreadsheet and give the exact numbers please.

I do not know the situation in other living worlds. I can say about our world the guild ranking does not reflect anything at the moment. Nothing at all. Strong guilds who care about GBG are in no hurry to spend their treasury on GvG in the lower ages. The free territory is seized by everyone who is not lazy, Often those who do not shine anywhere and do not interfere with anyone. They just sit quietly. I counted 6 guilds from the category of unfortunate on the 2nd page of the rating and 5 of them on the first. To be fair, there is only one guild on the third page that is more or less combat-ready. Another one is on the fifth page. And I didn't find anyone on the page below

I'm not sure it will work as it should. But perhaps weak guilds will think three times whether they need this sector on the GVG, if its capture entails getting into the death group I like this idea

 

[knarre sbeat]

If someone stops you from stepping in front of a moving bus, they are not denying you from evolving, but saving you from your worst actions

Sounds a bit arrogant to me. You assume the majority thinks theres a Bus coming, while i think the majority looking for heaven on the other side of the road.
And its not a Bus that hits me but pick me up so a can get there faster.
The GBG as it was, was nonsense.
One week you are friends with one Guild next week they deny you any sector.
Following week they are friendly again.
It didnt motivate old players, it demotivated them. Not all, but alot of them left.
Those who still play the GG do it, just to do it.
Most expeditions all Guildmembers finish Gex 64/64 rarely every Guildmember is active at GBG.
Saying GbG is the main reason to play FoE is in fact not true.

There are 20-30 Guilds that like to play GG alot or have it as there main interesst.
Maybe its 100 Guilds or 200. 200 out of 5000 and more.
Since GBG started, Greed has grown bigger or lets say, not staying behind.
GBG in its old form didnt help to raise Guild climate, rather the opposite.

Its been 2 years without any changes to alpha state?! Thanks to all the meta boys, i guess.
But now finally it's inevitable. Appreciate it @Inno. Looking forward to see it on live servers.
Hopefully the next Patch if needed, wont take that long ^^

 

[PackCat]

Correction. "Most people are articulating quite well the technical personal impact this change will may have.

only selfish people would do that. I try to base my analysis on facts, not feelings.
BTW, it is a violation of forums rules to edit/change the quote from another poster.

 

[DEADP00L]

only selfish people would do that. I try to base my analysis on facts, not feelings.

You are absolutely right, but re-read the comments!
The vast majority of posts are just imagining what might happen without knowing Inno's goal, instead of just posting what they see.
This state will automatically give rise to a larger test, on the live servers before another possible modification of Innogames.

I even go to the FR forum (charge to Juber to do the same here) to create a poll to find out if the majority of players (who speak out on the forums) want guilds to be grouped by capacity in GbG or via the random.

 

[PackCat]

Sounds a bit arrogant to me.

Its been 2 years without any changes to alpha state?! Thanks to all the meta boys, i guess.
But now finally it's inevitable. Appreciate it @Inno. Looking forward to see it on live servers.
Hopefully the next Patch wont take that long ^^

Coming from someone with 10K points in Iron Age, ranked 43 in a Guild of 50 members?
I can understand where your frustration comes from.
Not to discount your beta experience, but to suggest you know better than players with 10 years of experience is not an equal assessment.
It sounds like someone who is more jealous with their feelings, of the success of others, than having an interest in improving themselves.
Does it bother you the success of Guilds that fight strong together?

I think you missed the context of my message, which is that INNO needs to focus first at setting competitive matchups.
Only then can they tweak around the edges. Punishing one group of players to hand out welfare to others, does not seem like a valued exercise.
You are wanting a sledgehammer to punish and fix a problem the players did not create.
If you read through the many pages of comments, you will see many suggested alternative measures that does not simply punish success and promote weakness. One example being, changes to the structure of the map by displacing SC or make it harder and expensive to capture and hold the middle.

 

[PackCat]

You are absolutely right, but re-read the comments!
The vast majority of posts are just imagining what might happen without knowing Inno's goal, instead of just posting what they see.
This state will automatically give rise to a larger test, on the live servers before another possible modification of Innogames.

I even go to the FR forum (charge to Juber to do the same here) to create a poll to find out if the majority of players (who speak out on the forums) want guilds to be grouped by capacity in GbG or via the random.

I think in terms of sports matchups. Some college teams in basketball work out their schedule in advance to play against teams who are competitive to keep up their rankings. power rankings as it were. If the #1 team beats the #1263 team, it does not increase their ranking, but a #16 team playing a #1 team increases their ranking power just by showing up and goes astronomical if they win.

INNO has the data, so they know or have the ability to know how to matchup competitive contests between top GBG performers.

 

[knarre sbeat]

Coming from someone with 10K points in Iron Age, ranked 43 in a Guild of 50 members?
I can understand where your frustration comes from.
Not to discount your beta experience, but to suggest you know better than players with 10 years of experience is not an equal assessment.
It sounds like someone who is more jealous with their feelings, of the success of others, than having an interest in improving themselves.
Does it bother you the success of Guilds that fight strong together?

I think you missed the context of my message, which is that INNO needs to focus first at setting competitive matchups.
Only then can they tweak around the edges. Punishing one group of players to hand out welfare to others, does not seem like a valued exercise.
You are wanting a sledgehammer to punish and fix a problem the players did not create.
If you read through the many pages of comments, you will see many suggested alternative measures that does not simply punish success and promote weakness. One example being, changes to the structure of the map by displacing SC or make it harder and expensive to capture and hold the middle.

who tells you i havent deleted severall beta accounts already.
Also i been following the GBG thread from the start, not this one, the other. https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/guild-battlegrounds.10852/
So me and others waiting a long time for a change.

 

[Shalimar the Brave]

Finally, something that I can agree with. Maybe, now that checkerboarding seems doomed, the guilds that have not been allowed to participate will come out to play. If so, it will be good for the game.

Ask Commander for a screenshot of his map this season and see if you feel the same. The only reason the small guilds did what they did on our map last season is that I was actively managing them to the point of telling them when to walk up their sectors ‍

 

[PackCat]

CrashBoom said:
can someone explain me a simple thing:
why are the strong guilds bullying the weak ones

let's take my GBG on live (diamond 1000 LP guilds)
one of the strong team directly captured half of the map at the start of the season
including the starting sectors of 3 other guilds

why are they such bullys and don't even let them that sector ?

Owl II said:​

What weak ones? The Diamond League? 1000 LP? This is the elite of the server. What are the weak ones? There shouldn't be any weak guilds​

I almost could not stop from laughing... Guild is in Diamond League. Complains that another Diamond League Guild is taking their proposed section of the map.

Another contestant for a participation trophy?
I have a thought. He must be talking about our Guild.
We set specific rules this season. If a Guild does not build camps, they are not interested in exploration. Capture them!
If a team sits in their base, what does it matter what other Guilds do.
I hope everyone realizes, FOE is a war game with a few alliances once in a while, but other Guilds are not there to be your friend and helper, unless you have something to offer in return.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

only selfish people would do that. I try to base my analysis on facts, not feelings.
BTW, it is a violation of forums rules to edit/change the quote from another poster.

But you've gathered no facts pertaining to how this change has impacted your game.

I did not edit/change the original post. I reposted with changes which is not against the rules.

 

[DEADP00L]

Often I read that the whales (I hate this expression) will quickly get tired, no longer spend diamonds and that the treasuries of guilds will no longer be of much use.

For diamond expenditure, I repeat it is not our problem, it is Inno's problem, which has all the tools to monitor and rectify if necessary.
But for the weariness of the players very present in GbG, don't you think that this is a way for Inno to make them understand that FOE is not limited to GbG?
Between daily challenges, growing events, PvP arena, EG, GvG, settlements, and management/participation within their guild, there's plenty to keep you busy all day. .

Focusing only on GbG is as relevant as criticizing pacifist players for not exploring the combat part.

I know that without their exploitation in GbG some will no longer gain thousands of FP per day, but is it that smart to spit on 500 FP daily with this update?
Threatening to go on a hunger strike because you are deprived of sweets is not very mature!

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I even go to the FR forum (charge to Juber to do the same here) to create a poll to find out if the majority of players (who speak out on the forums) want guilds to be grouped by capacity in GbG or via the random.

Good idea but don't we already know the answer to this (or did know at least)? For a long time, clear up to the time that INNO stopped matchmaking based on guild ID last year, players were complaining about the matchups and wanted them random based on LP. Maybe I'm mistaken.

 

[Beta King]

Haven't really put too much thought into this, so it's just a "shower thought", but what if there would be some sort of diminishing return (DR) for rewards? Those who are not familiar with DR, it simply means that you get less-and-less rewards for doing the same action. It can be implemented in a "step-by-step" way (e.g. 10FP for X amount of battles/negs, than just 5, 2, then 0), or simply a "sudden death", so from 100% to 0% in rewards. That way farming / chessboarding would be quite meaningless, pretty fast, assuming the DR limit isn't too high. Wonder how many would show up to fight if they get nothing from it, fighting just for the guild, like in GVG.

Thats exactly how the castle system is set up, many points for for first fights of the day and tapering down. As long as the player ranking points would still stack up like they normally do i would be ok with this idea.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I think in terms of sports matchups. Some college teams in basketball work out their schedule in advance to play against teams who are competitive to keep up their rankings. power rankings as it were. If the #1 team beats the #1263 team, it does not increase their ranking, but a #16 team playing a #1 team increases their ranking power just by showing up and goes astronomical if they win.

INNO has the data, so they know or have the ability to know how to matchup competitive contests between top GBG performers.

The Conference makes the schedule, not the team.

 

[DEADP00L]

players were complaining about the matchups and wanted them random based on LP

All is said :

Let's detail the possible cases in GbG:
1 strong guild + 7 weak guilds = the strong guild is bored
2 strong guilds + 6 weak guilds = 2 guilds trade lots of sectors while 6 watch.
3 strong guilds + 5 weak guilds = 3 guilds trade slightly less sectors while 5 watch.
4 strong guilds + 4 weak guilds = 4 guilds trade very few sectors while 4 watch.
from 5 strong guilds = no more people can make thousands of fights

Would you agree to group together all the strong guilds always together, without coming in 6 months to say that it's boring to always have the same opponents?

 

[Gunder Gunderson]

the weak ones which didn't take the first sector in the first 15 minutes

in short again
guilds which don't even let other their starting sector deserve that cap

why didnt YOU take your first sector?

and what are you complaining about, you can take the sector in 4h.

If Guilds can not take their first sector in 10 min, they are not interested in this part of the game.
Dont complain, enjoy pvp, gvg, building your city, whatever...

Why dont you let players that actually have fun with GBG, just have fun?

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Ask Commander for a screenshot of his map this season and see if you feel the same. The only reason the small guilds did what they did on our map last season is that I was actively managing them to the point of telling them when to walk up their sectors ‍

Good for you but did you do it out of benevolence or selfishness? Because, otherwise, there would have been less sectors to swap for rewards.

 

[Shalimar the Brave]

Good for you but did you do it out of benevolence or selfishness? Because, otherwise, there would have been less sectors to swap for rewards.

The point is, those guilds would not have been particularly competitive without help, regardless of the reason the help was given. To get more guilds to participate takes more than just muzzling the big guilds.

 

[Shalimar the Brave]

Good idea but don't we already know the answer to this (or did know at least)? For a long time, clear up to the time that INNO stopped matchmaking based on guild ID last year, players were complaining about the matchups and wanted them random based on LP. Maybe I'm mistaken.

Matchmaking was originally League > LP > Random. Inno changed it to League > LP > Guild ID. Once people noticed and complained (and started predicting matches exactly) they returned it to League > LP > Random