Discussion General Discussions

[Grzechu Junior]

Regardless of others data mining, calculating, or whatever you want to call it, you are not allowed to use it.

and i will say again. Foe helper does not collect data which is meant in this article of terms and conditions...

 

[Sl8yer]

and i will say again. Foe helper does not collect data which is meant in this article of terms and conditions...

It does collect data. It even uploads/sends data from your Guild. Besides that, the T & C is not about what Helper does. Helper is not a player that has accepted the T & S. It is about what you as a player are allowed to use and that excludes Helper.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

This debate is silly. INNO makes the rules and enforces them at their sole discretion. Apparently, they have chosen to ignore the widespread use of FOEHelper. I'm sure that they have their reasons.

 

[planetofthehumans2]

So is this just moaning by app players?

Honestly, I've tried it and don't really like it. Its bulky, it opens boxes all over the screen, the info it provides doesn't really help me. I can neg better than the neg helper. I use foe tools for 1.9 - otherwise I can use a calculator. I'm never going to find the road incidents even if I know they're there, so that just makes me mad knowing it's there.

 

[CrashBoom]

Foe helper does not collect data

then how would you call the stats of one years (if you have it running for so long)

isn't that collected data ?

 

[Sl8yer]

6) Bots and scripts
It is strictly forbidden to use bots or scripts.
Examples:
- It is strictly forbidden to use bots or scripts that automatically collect your resources.
- It is not allowed to use click-bots or scripts that minimize your manual clicks.
- You may not use programs that mimic premium features or provide an unfair advantage.

https://zz0.forgeofempires.com/page/the_game/rules/

Definition script

4 computing : a sequence of instructions or commands for a computer to execute
especially : one that automates a small task (such as assembling or sorting a set of data)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/script

Defiinition bot

2 : a computer program that performs automatic repetitive tasks
3 : a computer program or character (as in a game) designed to mimic the actions of a person

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bot

Unfair advantage:

Any differences in external factors beyond the players themselves are unfair advantages or disadvantages, as they reduce the accuracy of the measurement. Breaking rules, superior hardware or software, and environmental distractions are examples of this.

https://www.tuni.fi/playlab/unfair-advantages/

 

[outoftheline]

It even uploads/sends data from your Guild.

Wrong. We don't store anything but city planning related data on the website anymore and in order to use the city planner you need to send the data to the website actively and create an account there.
The rest is stored locally in your browser and sent nowhere.

 

[-Alin-]

This debate is silly. INNO makes the rules and enforces them at their sole discretion. Apparently, they have chosen to ignore the widespread use of FOEHelper. I'm sure that they have their reasons.

It does keep players into game, some players without helper will not even bother to track aspects of the game or even play it, makes the game simpler, a time saver.

 

[-Alin-]

then how would you call the stats of one years (if you have it running for so long)

isn't that collected data ?

It doesn't collect it anywhere, just on Your browser, if You delete the cache or go play FoE on another laptop/browser, all data "stored" is gone.

 

[Emberguard]

The rules state:

The Community Management of the [Beta] version of Forge of Empires are the final arbiters of any rules dispute. Their interpretation of these rules is final.

That rule is written on every server, in relation to the server it's written on. So we can debate what is or isn't allowed, but in the end it'll come down to what the Community Manager of your server decides is or isn't a bot.

 

[DEADP00L]

Unfair advantage:

Any differences in external factors beyond the players themselves are unfair advantages or disadvantages, as they reduce the accuracy of the measurement. Breaking rules, superior hardware or software, and environmental distractions are examples of this.

So opening up the inspection menu available in browsers and dissecting information according to one's own computing abilities is also unfair?
If so, then any computer scientist must be banned from the game.
If not, FOE HELPER therefore makes it possible to put on the same footing those who have the knowledge to get this information and those who are much more limited.

Anyway, you can talk as much as you want Inno has taken a stand, even in this case you call his silence, because he knows FOE Helper very well and he communicates with the designers of this assistant.
So either you accept the situation, or you press charges against Inno if you think he is not doing his job properly.

 

[CrashBoom]

It doesn't collect it anywhere, just on Your browser, if You delete the cache or go play FoE on another laptop/browser, all data "stored" is gone.

so collected data which is stored on one location only isn't collected data

and if I copy that one folder to another laptop it is also there
so in that case all data is doubled

and I actually did that last December.
I copied my cache from my old computer to my new one

 

[Hiep Lin]

then ForgeDB and similar stats sites are also prohibited

ForgeDB and similar show what the game shows.
FOE helper shows what the game hides.

 

[CrashBoom]

ForgeDB and similar show what the game shows.

it collects data

and for example:
the game doesn't show in which guilds a player was last year

 

[Hiep Lin]

it collects data

and for example:
the game doesn't show in which guilds a player was last year

This is something everyone can know.
On the other hand if a building will give diamonds or not, or pf or not, nobody can know it in the normal use of the game.
Knowing the random production before choosing whether to use the galaxy is not normal. It's very close to cheating.

And saying that everyone can use the assistant doesn't make sense, it's like saying that everyone can cheat.
Anyone can use bots yet they are prohibited.

 

[zookeepers]

On the other hand if a building will give diamonds or not, or pf or not, nobody can know it in the normal use of the game.
Knowing the random production before choosing whether to use the galaxy is not normal. It's very close to cheating.

You can know these without use of helper or any other programs. All you need is FoE app or a browser.

• Whether the building is producing FP or not
• What the building is producing in addition to some FPs
• How much FP your building is producing

So, if you wish, you can know

• If your Pirate's Hideout is producing 40 FPs or not
• If your Druid's Temple is producing 25 FPs or not
• If your Crow's Nest is producing diamonds or not
• Whether your Crow's Nest is producing 20FP or 8FP

In contrast, I don't know a method to know the random production of cases below without analysing the hidden data.

• If your Wishing Well or Fountain of Youth is producing diamonds or not
  • but you can exclude FP production, so you can make it 2.0% -> 2.5% if you want.​

I can tell you how to do thit if you want, but maybe it's not appopriate to shout out loud in the forum.
...well, but I think it's quite well known.

 

[Sl8yer]

The rules state:



That rule is written on every server, in relation to the server it's written on. So we can debate what is or isn't allowed, but in the end it'll come down to what the Community Manager of your server decides is or isn't a bot.

I think that applies to game rules. Not to the Terms & Conditions. Those are the same world wide and if the Community Manager of the beta server has no problem with the use of scripts and bots he can and should adjust the game rules. Unless he has the strange believe that Helper gives a fair advantage.

 

[Grzechu Junior]

I can tell you how to do thit if you want, but maybe it's not appopriate to shout out loud in the forum.
...well, but I think it's quite well known.

how :O

 

[.Chris]

[...]these players want those rules to be broken for the sake of convenience by giving them their own special category. Same thing here with fragments. Doesn't matter that they're still items and thus belong in the tab that explicitly shows all items in the inventory. These players want to make up their own rules. If there's a disconnect, it's with them rather than the devs.

"It has always been that way" is usually not a good way to approach anything.
The game has evolved over time, the inventory management should still be subject to adaptation when the need arises, including rules.

The main inventory is still a catch-all that displays everything.

They're not items from a functional perspective anymore than say a blueprint is. And it would be insane to have up to 9 slots for every GB in your main inventory (Tower of Babel NW x 13). While fragments aren't there yet in quantity, they're heading that way. Fragments for this that and the other thing. Some of which may not return for quite some time (see: fragments of golden kits).

They're not items - they're fragments of items. You cannot do anything directly with a fragment until you have enough to make the item. The community suggestions have all essentially boiled down to move fragments somewhere other than the main inventory. Especially now that we have a dedicated tab to go find the fragments when we care (like we have a dedicated tab to view the status of our blueprints in a convenient fashion), it should not be a problem to filter them out of main inventory.

The main inventory should still display everything so you can have a place to search for everything that is connected to one search phrase.
BUT:
We have gotten to a point that there are so many items in the game - including those recent one where just one keyword is not enough to get you the desired results - that it is just overwhelming.

I am not a fan of the extra fragments tab (allthough it is a nice addition).
I would prefer to have checkboxes (possibly in connection with dropdown menues).
Checkboxes could in clude:

• Buildings
• Special / Event Buildings
• Consumables
• FPs
• GE
• Kits
• Fragments
• Settlements
• Boxes (Special Units, Units, BPs etc.)
• Drinks (Att/Def)
• Rush Items
• Residential Buildings
• Decorational Buildings
• Military Buildings
• Cultural Buildings
• Goods Buildings
• Production Buildings

Dropdowns:

• Age
• Sets

With these options there should be a way to configure the main inventory to each players individual needs and preferences.

I would guess, though, that this would mean a major redesign and recode of the inventory.
Would it be worth it? Yes, imho.
Do I think the devs will be able to focus on it? Probably not in the foreseable future.

If they do decide to implement it I would really hope they do so TOGETHER with the player base and not on their own

 

[Beta King]

I think:
they TOLERATE it because else they must ban too many players

Yes im sure everyone that uses the helper daily, even if it is banned, will continue to use it until they get banned into oblivion(me included). Who wants to math out every donation or use a website calculator. Helper cuts out some of the monotonous parts of the game that many people dont want to have to deal with when playing a game for fun. You must remember if it is no longer fun then most wont play and the crutch has been there far too long to take away now without a mass exodus.