Discussion General Discussions

[.Chris]

If it isn't a script, how can it read the info it provides?

Game rules say you are not allowed to have an unfair advantage. How can you not have an unfair advantage if Helper solves the negotiations for you and provides other benefits? If Helper isn't a script ,how can it predict coming productions?

We're gonna have to talk definitions first, I guess.
The FoEHalper is a Browser Add On, therefore it's a piece of software and you could be calling such software a script.
But when I (and Iassume most others including Inno) talk of a script then - and I have no experience with such things so I'm guessing here - they mean things like a clicker script that automatically does inputs (like clicking on a certain point on your screen for example) in the game for you.

The helper analyzes the information the server is sending to your browser and displys that information in a way that humans can comprehend it.
The helper is not predicting (I'm guessing we're talking about random) productions, the server is sending that information
Theoretically you could do that by yourself and analyze the data by hand - or input it into an excel sheet - or write a piece of code that does something with that data. Like solving all possible interations of negotiations and showing you the most likely/best way to play.

And where the helper is giving unfair advantages (negotiations in GBG come to mind) Inno enforces a removal.

 

[Grzechu Junior]

Was curious if somone will take this topic from ideas or not
Thansk God it was not me

And where the helper is giving unfair advantages (negotiations in GBG come to mind) Inno enforces a removal.

precisly.

 

[Sl8yer]

We're gonna have to talk definitions first, I guess.
The FoEHalper is a Browser Add On, therefore it's a piece of software and you could be calling such software a script.
But when I (and Iassume most others including Inno) talk of a script then - and I have no experience with such things so I'm guessing here - they mean things like a clicker script that automatically does inputs (like clicking on a certain point on your screen for example) in the game for you.

The helper analyzes the information the server is sending to your browser and displys that information in a way that humans can comprehend it.
The helper is not predicting (I'm guessing we're talking about random) productions, the server is sending that information
Theoretically you could do that by yourself and analyze the data by hand - or input it into an excel sheet - or write a piece of code that does something with that data. Like solving all possible interations of negotiations and showing you the most likely/best way to play.

And where the helper is giving unfair advantages (negotiations in GBG come to mind) Inno enforces a removal.

Yes Helper analyzes the information the server is sending you and presents it is a way that is usefull to you. It is something you can do yourself, but have you ever tried it? It will take a lot of time to do yourself what Helper does in seconds. Now let me give you an example. You have a high level Blue Galaxy. Helper will tell you exactly which wishing well will give diamonds, or which Pirate's Hideout will deliver 40 fp's. How is using Helper not an unfair advantage compared to players not using it? There isn't a full working app version.

Game rules clearly states: "You may not use programs that mimic premium features or provide an unfair advantage." Giving an unfair advantage is what Helper does. There is no denying that.

 

[Deleted User - 241425]

Game rules clearly states: "You may not use programs that mimic premium features or provide an unfair advantage."

With this same argument, should GvG be banned?

 

[zookeepers]

I don't use helper usually since playing mobile, but am checking if my Pirates Hideouts are producing FP or not beforehand collection everyday in order to double it by BG. Takes 10 seconds.

 

[Kronan]

How is using Helper not an unfair advantage compared to players not using it? There isn't a full working app version.

Game rules clearly states: "You may not use programs that mimic premium features or provide an unfair advantage." Giving an unfair advantage is what Helper does. There is no denying that.

Precisely. Mobile players have NO SUCH ADVANTAGE available, and therefore are 2nd class game citizens when it comes "inside information" like that. Geez, knowing what the building will deliver before it does is analogous to going back in time to 1986 and buying Microsoft Corporation stock - LOTS of it.

Welcome to being being a billionaire - trading on inside information.

 

[CrashBoom]

We're gonna have to talk definitions first, I guess.
The FoEHalper is a Browser Add On, therefore it's a piece of software and you could be calling such software a script.
But when I (and Iassume most others including Inno) talk of a script then - and I have no experience with such things so I'm guessing here - they mean things like a clicker script that automatically does inputs (like clicking on a certain point on your screen for example) in the game for you.

The helper analyzes the information the server is sending to your browser and displys that information in a way that humans can comprehend it.
The helper is not predicting (I'm guessing we're talking about random) productions, the server is sending that information
Theoretically you could do that by yourself and analyze the data by hand - or input it into an excel sheet - or write a piece of code that does something with that data. Like solving all possible interations of negotiations and showing you the most likely/best way to play.

And where the helper is giving unfair advantages (negotiations in GBG come to mind) Inno enforces a removal.

but isn't that the unfair advantage if the helper does it and not the player ?
because the player with the helper saves much time

I used that way (calculate with excel) to calculate my sniping before the helper existed
that took much more time.

 

[Sl8yer]

With this same argument, should GvG be banned?

Is GVG a third party software, or a program not presented by Inno?

I don't make the rules. Inno does and since they do, they should uphold them.

 

[Deleted User - 241425]

Is GVG a third party software, or a program not presented by Inno?

It is therefore much more serious because consciously Innogames confers an advantage between players.
How do you want them to be credible afterwards by asking a third-party service to do what they don't do?

 

[.Chris]

Game rules clearly states: "You may not use programs that mimic premium features or provide an unfair advantage." Giving an unfair advantage is what Helper does. There is no denying that.

The game runs on different platforms which - while being similar - are not exactly the same. @DEADP00L already mentioned GvG as the most glaring "advantage" for PC players; the ability to play the game from anywhere and at any time is the most glaring example for mobile players.
If one restricts oneself to only one of the options to play the game you will have to live with the respective disadvantages.

The question then becomes what should be considered "unfair".
The helper is - theoretically - available to every player and as such I personally do not consider it to be unfair as long as Inno is fine with the features it provides.

but isn't that the unfair advantage if the helper does it and not the player ?
because the player with the helper saves much time

I used that way (calculate with excel) to calculate my sniping before the helper existed
that took much more time.

Should the use of excel be banned as well since it is an external software that does calculations for you?
And should you be banned from using a calculator?
Or pen and paper?

 

[CrashBoom]

Should the use of excel be banned as well since it is an external software that does calculations for you?
And should you be banned from using a calculator?
Or pen and paper?

does those tools calculate automatically without your work

and does those tools give you the result in 0.0 seconds

and don't forget to ban me for using my brain
because Arc sniping can be simple math: level 48 for example costs 2480. half calculated in head 1240
damn I got banned because I can calculate with my head

oh wait. everybody must calculate to know how much to donate.
even the people who don't snipe and donate 1.9
so everybody who is donating must be banned

The helper is - theoretically - available to every player

practically NOT

because in your "every player" assumption there are 100% browser players and 0% app players

 

[.Chris]

does those tools calculate automatically without your work

and does those tools give you the result in 0.0 seconds

Where to draw the line then?

• FoEHelper
• Online Arc Calculator
• Excel
• Calculator
• Pen and paper
• Calculations in your head

practically NOT

because in your "every player" assumption there are 100% browser players and 0% app players

That's why I said theoretically; not using a PC is an individual choice and choices have consequences.

 

[Deleted User - 241425]

Instead of taking your beak because you both have reasons, don't you think that if Inno accepts FOE Helper it's mainly because it saves them from coding to integrate these calculations into the game for everyone?

 

[CrashBoom]

Where to draw the line then?

that is a very easy question
between automatically and manually

 

[CrashBoom]

don't you think that if Inno accepts FOE Helper it's mainly because it saves them from coding to integrate these calculations into the game for everyone?

I think:
they TOLERATE it because else they must ban too many players

 

[.Chris]

that is a very easy question
between automatically and manually

The online Arc calculator then?

 

[CrashBoom]

The online Arc calculator then?

I don't know that

but sounds like you must fill it manually to get the result

 

[.Chris]

Pick one from the list.
Usually you have to pick a building and pick a level.

Point is: The only thing the helper does to further help you is to know which building and which level you want calculated and what is already invested in it.
Please don't get me wrong, I agree that it was/is harder to do it in excel or in your head but that doesn't make it unfair.

If Inno thinks that a tool is fine to use than it is fine to use.

 

[CrashBoom]

The only thing the helper does to further help you is to know which building and which level you want calculated and what is already invested in it.

it only shows how much I need to donate to snipe a place and what the profit will be

no numbers needed to typed in elsewhere

time to get that information from the helper 0 seconds

and how long would I need to fill all needed information somewhere else ?

Please don't get me wrong, I agree that it was/is harder to do it in excel or in your head but that doesn't make it unfair.

don't get me wrong: I am using the FoEhelper

why: because it is not forbidden

but still I believe it is an unfair advantage compared to all players not using it

 

[Deleted User - 241425]

it only shows how much I need to donate to snipe a place and what the profit will be

But with software that "sucks up" the data, you can easily make your own Foe Helper.
That's what I did before FOE Helper was officially tolerated by Innogames.
My own homemade software tells me how much to put for a snip just as it tells me which of the finished productions have diamonds or FPs.
No hacking, just data extraction in the same way that it is possible to do a simple copy-paste, when you know where to look for the right information.

But we all veil our faces, Inno simply refuses to waste time to code his game better and then prohibit any external help, especially since some are totally undetectable. Better if the majority use FOE Helper, there is only one site to monitor.