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GE in oceanic future - how? Battles are MUCH harder than in AF

Andi47

Overlord
I have the impression that in Oceanic Future the guild expedition (towards the end of level 2, and onwards) is damn hard - in some cases (even the last one of level 2) I need to negotiate, because it is almost impossible (without CDM, Aachen and Zeus all at level 60+) to win the battles.

Does anyone have any ideas how to fight and which units to use in the end of GE-level 2 and in level 3?
 

DeletedUser7779

Guest
I just completed level 3 earlier today (on live servers though, but i assume difficulty is the same?).
I did lose a little more rogues than usual but that was expected.
I used mainly AF troops.

Last 4 of lvl 3 I used 1/2 dragon drones and 6/7 rogues resp. (because there were lots of plasmas in defense)

Almost all of the rest i fought with 2 plasmas, 1 BF, 5 rogues. Plasmas are essential to hit enemy eels and plasmas. Starting with 2 of them ensures that you kill one of the enemy's before it's their turn to move.
Also, unlike others i do find BFs quite useful against the sub cruisers. 2 BFs kill a cruiser and only one of them takes 3 damage.
So in general my tactics was to kill the sub cruisers with BFs and the eels/plasmas with plasmas. The CRAPs...i leave last, i don't consider them as a threat ;)
 

Andi47

Overlord
I just completed level 3 earlier today (on live servers though, but i assume difficulty is the same?).
I did lose a little more rogues than usual but that was expected.
I used mainly AF troops.

Last 4 of lvl 3 I used 1/2 dragon drones and 6/7 rogues resp. (because there were lots of plasmas in defense)

Almost all of the rest i fought with 2 plasmas, 1 BF, 5 rogues. Plasmas are essential to hit enemy eels and plasmas. Starting with 2 of them ensures that you kill one of the enemy's before it's their turn to move.
Also, unlike others i do find BFs quite useful against the sub cruisers. 2 BFs kill a cruiser and only one of them takes 3 damage.
So in general my tactics was to kill the sub cruisers with BFs and the eels/plasmas with plasmas. The CRAPs...i leave last, i don't consider them as a threat ;)

Zeus, CDM and Aachen at level 60?
 

DeletedUser7251

Guest
Once again INNO make fun of their users.GE is impossible now.Good job. I'm one step away from quitting this stuff.

They gave us 10% attack but immediately increase GE too.But the increase came in attack and defense and the players got only attack.Frack you and your game.

Edit NormaJeane: 2017-05-12 - Corrected one inappropriate word ;)
 
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Tanmay11

Regent
the devs seem out of touch with the game tbh.
It is impossible to do lvl 3 without spending diamonds & to add to our miseries we now have a lvl 4 lol.
its as if they're assuming that all of us at the end of tech tree will push attack gbs to insane levels.
there's no point negotiating at higher lvls coz its pure gambling and no skill involved.
 

DeletedUser7779

Guest
the devs seem out of touch with the game tbh.
It is impossible to do lvl 3 without spending diamonds & to add to our miseries we now have a lvl 4 lol.
its as if they're assuming that all of us at the end of tech tree will push attack gbs to insane levels.
there's no point negotiating at higher lvls coz its pure gambling and no skill involved.

While I agree 100% with what you said about negotiating - that it's pure luck and no skills involved,
I disagree that you have to use diamonds on lvl 3.
I don't think my attack % is insane - 161 % with all buffs.. It is harder, yes, and I did lose more rogues than usual, i had to retreat a few times when the combo of troops I used didn't work well ... but in the end it's all doable without spending a single diamond.
If you have your attack GBs at lvl 10 (which is a more or less a must in OF) - that's already 90% + 20% from checkmate and speaker's corner + 30 % boost from tavern, that's easy 140%. 3 dragon drone barracks will give you additional 21%, so there you go - 161%....wouldn't call it insane, would you?

Also, I dont think that a difference of 10-20% matters that much. Much more crucial is to choose the right combo of troops. At the hardest encounters only 1 or 2 configuration will lead you to victory, so finding it out is the key imo.
 

Tanmay11

Regent
While I agree 100% with what you said about negotiating - that it's pure luck and no skills involved,
I disagree that you have to use diamonds on lvl 3.
I don't think my attack % is insane - 161 % with all buffs.. It is harder, yes, and I did lose more rogues than usual, i had to retreat a few times when the combo of troops I used didn't work well ... but in the end it's all doable without spending a single diamond.
If you have your attack GBs at lvl 10 (which is a more or less a must in OF) - that's already 90% + 20% from checkmate and speaker's corner + 30 % boost from tavern, that's easy 140%. 3 dragon drone barracks will give you additional 21%, so there you go - 161%....wouldn't call it insane, would you?

Also, I dont think that a difference of 10-20% matters that much. Much more crucial is to choose the right combo of troops. At the hardest encounters only 1 or 2 configuration will lead you to victory, so finding it out is the key imo.
you seem to be pretty lucky for never having to spend a single diamond on lvl 3.
the last four battles, especially 8th and 12th on lvl 3 are almost impossible for the average person with 110/90~% attack bonus.

a while ago i had 230%+ bonus with the strike team centers...and it wasn't so difficult, but you cant have the military buildings forever. you will have to delete them sometime to allow traz to produce the units you want like rogues. or make way for other buildings.
 
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DeletedUser7779

Guest
@redred did you try with 30% boost from tavern? That will get you to 165% for 24 hrs

@Tanmay11 what's the defense on those?
In general my strategy is to use BFs as much as possible because regardless of the enemy attack and your defense, they always take 3 damage and hence 4 hits to kill. I like using 2 BFs 2 plasmas or 1 BF 2 plasmas combo. Plasmas are good against cruisers (2 hit kill with my attack boost), eels because they ignore stealth and plasmas. Tbh i tried using sub cruisers instead of BFs a couple of times but that didn't work so well exactly because of the reactivate armor.
So again, it's more the combo of troops rather than the attack %. But tbh 110/90 is a little low for OF. Not saying impossible of course because once @midas89 showed us how to beat lvl 3 AF with 75%.
 

DeletedUser5663

Guest
Once again INNO make fun of their users.GE is impossible now.Good job. I'm one step away from quitting this stuff.

They gave us 10% attack but immediately increase GE too.But the increase came in attack and defense and the players got only attack.Frack you and your game.
Just because you are unable to properly use the troops and win, the game is at fault|? Obviously it is possible to beat it. Should the game be so easy even the worst players can win?
 
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RedRed

Viceroy
@redred did you try with 30% boost from tavern? That will get you to 165% for 24 hrs
Yes, the habit was to enable it for the 2nd part of 3rd level and 1st part of 4th (in AF; currently in OF I've done 12/16 battles in 3rd level, all with the boost enabled).

Do not misunderstand me, I'm not complaining the fact that the battles are harder. It's ok that difficulty increases with ages; even, the feedback might be biased because it is the first week against new troops and we almost still use F/AF troops to fight.
My 1st impression is just that difficulty of 2nd level has increased much more than the expected; majority of users were accustomed to fight 2nd round with autobattle and few losses or manual with less - now we have high losses even in manual (I repeat, might be just because we don't know enough the new troops, or even an unfortunate combination of troops, still there are many complaints on live servers).
 

DeletedUser7813

Guest
I have 138/128 on live and right now Im 50/48 (no negotiation and zero diamonds spent). some fights were difficult but overall its not much harder than AF expedition. You just have to think a little and you´ll be ok.
3rd part should be hard for almost everyone and 4th is suppose to be the hardest part of the game but hey if 1/2 of our guild can make it to 4th and beyond than it cant be that hard :)
 

Tanmay11

Regent
@zwucki
i dont know, not sure if i'll do much GE this week because of my poor net connection. but yeah since AF was released I tend to use BF most of the times too.
CRAB also is not bad because it ignores stealth and has quite good attack....only issue is range which dont matter if enemy doesnt have a lot of artillery units??
the other OF unit i used was eels. other ones seem useless.

But tbh 110/90 is a little low for OF
my current attack is 108/93, i had been focusing on arc(80), traz(43) and now frontenac(45). attack gbs after i finish with frontenac.
its really upto what you're priorities are.
 
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DeletedUser7779

Guest
CRAB also is not bad because it ignores stealth and has quite good attack....only issue is range which dont matter if enemy doesnt have a lot of artillery units??
Idk, tbh i'm not impressed by CRAPs, only good thing about them is that they ignore stealth. And if you happen to have bad terrain, they can't reach the enemy even on the second turn. I prefer BFs.
When lots of artillery in defense (maybe like 6+ total on both waves), i like using dragon drones because they're immune. I used that combo on last 4 battles on lvl 3.
@zwucki
my current attack is 108/93, i had been focusing on arc(80), traz(43) and now frontenac(45). attack gbs after i finish with frontenac.
its really upto what you're priorities are.
Yep that's true. Guess you priority was not GE. When lvl 4 was introduced on beta, i started pushing my CdM on live servers and got it to lvl 47. Therefore my Arc is quite low - lvl 32.

My 1st impression is just that difficulty of 2nd level has increased much more than the expected; majority of users were accustomed to fight 2nd round with autobattle and few losses or manual with less - now we have high losses even in manual (I repeat, might be just because we don't know enough the new troops, or even an unfortunate combination of troops, still there are many complaints on live servers).
Agreed. First week is always harder because we're still not used to the new troops and we don't know what combos to use. I remember when AF troops were rebalanced i had a hard time the first week but then it got to normal. And yes, i was not autoing lvl 2 this week and still lost some. But i like the challenge :) like mentioned above, fighting GE requires some skills and strategic positioning/selecting troops unlike negotiations where it's just pure luck and 0% skills ;)
 

Andi47

Overlord
Idk, tbh i'm not impressed by CRAPs, only good thing about them is that they ignore stealth. And if you happen to have bad terrain, they can't reach the enemy even on the second turn. I prefer BFs.
When lots of artillery in defense (maybe like 6+ total on both waves), i like using dragon drones because they're immune. I used that combo on last 4 battles on lvl 3.

It is possible to win against 7 eels with Dragons?

Do not misunderstand me, I'm not complaining the fact that the battles are harder. It's ok that difficulty increases with ages; even, the feedback might be biased because it is the first week against new troops and we almost still use F/AF troops to fight.

This is because OF units are almost not usable in the attack formation:

* Sub-Cruisers: Well, thy are good in almost the same situations when Surrogates are good (lots of Surrogates, Recons, and a few Dragons in the Deff), but they have no chance if the deff has more than one or two heavy units.
* Eels: They seem to be good in the deff, but I have not yet found any use for them in Attack (maybe except if the attacker is lucky to get very bushy terrain).
* CRAPs: Well, they are good against a deff with eels-only, but otherwise they are total crap: With their too short range they have no chance to reach the enemy before they are half-dead (or even completely dead) - and their reactive armor is weaker than the reactive armor of BFs. (you need 4 shots to kill a BF, but only 3 shots to kill a CRAP)
 

podkap1970

Emperor
It is possible to win against 7 eels with Dragons?
yes it is, if 6 of them are close each other (pairs), just retreat if not
not sure you need some attackpower for it

i use on most my fights 2x cruisers and 6 rogues, (not in the first round)
last 3 battles 3rd round you can't or you lose many units or even lose the fights
4th level first 2 fights same 2 cruisers 6 rogues

than i use goods, i'm not in the mood to go in with diffrent units and see if the rogue exchange in this unit or in that unit i need
for this is the GE not more good enough to waste my time in there

2nd GE week in a row, i lost a lot more as i won
only doing this for the guild, not for my personal interests, because 4th lvl is not even close to be worth, time and goods
we are in same situation, as before lvl 4 got implemented, even less players doing it
and i thought we get a positive change
 

DeletedUser7251

Guest
Just because you are unable to properly use the troops and win, the game is at fault|? Obviously it is possible to beat it. Should the game be so easy even the worst players can win?

This tells me you dont understand the game.I wont extend this conversation cause for me is pretty clear what level you have in the game. You are not smart enough.

Just an example:tell me how you beat 1st wave 8 c.r.a.b and 2nd 8 eels with 180% bonus. Its out of question using diamonds or negotiation.
 

Andi47

Overlord
With your super-high GBs (with 215/195% I guess that you have Zeus, Aachen and CDM around level 80, and you write yourself that your Orangery is level 80), it might be easier - but with "normal" level "Battle-GBs" (Zeus, Aachen, CDM at level 10 or 12) level 3 of GE is VERY hard, some battles (especially with many eels) are next to impossible (as you write - even with your super-high LGs)

And I agree, the CRAB is seriously underpowered. Too low range, and weaker reactive armor than the BF.

BTW: There is one more unit which is underpowered: The OF Champion has 10 more attack than the AF champion (in relative numbers, that's only 6% more), all other stats are exactly the same. An come on: ONE point more "chivalry" and "call for duty"?? Well, if we assume that almost everyone in OF has his "Battle GBs" at least at level 10, the units have effective attack and defense values around 400 to 500. And it makes almost no difference whether the value is 487 or 788. So ONE additional point is absolutely ridiculous.
 

DeletedUser7779

Guest
Your example is very good! BUT, in total, the GE became easier now than it was in AF. Only the Eels causing problems, every battle which doesn't contain Eels is ridiculous, i didn't lose a single unit on the last encounter against 250% boost, never ever before could i do the same, i've always lost a lot (the same happaned at every encounter where were no Eels).
To understand the problem, look at the stats! 35 movement, 10 shooting range, and hiding skill. The terrain is always good for it. No other unit can move so much, the dragon drone has almost so high numbers, 32, but it's range is 1. Usually the artillery units ignore the hiding skill, but the Eel has bonus against them, and starts first, so if there're 8, they will definately turn the 6 rogues (in GE i always use 2 normal units + 6 rogues), and kill 1 e.g. plasma immediately! Because of the high boost in GE, and the Eel's boost against artillery, you must be very lucky to kill an Eel with two shots (my boost is 215/195% now, so i can say, quite high)! So your 7 plasmas only could kill 3 (with huge luck), the 5 remaining will kill 2 of your plasmas etc. You won't have enough units against CRABs in the second wave because the CRAB got reactive and the orangery won't affect.
I think i don't have to explain how impossible is to solve the encounter with dragon drones, maybe they could win the first wave with less casualies than plasmas (again with luck if the Eels move good for them), but there's no chance to win against CRABs with them, especially because the Orangery wouldn't affect.
(Some of us were complaining about the Orangery when it was inroduced, it definately must affect on units from it's own age, and on units from higher eras too!)
The fact is, there's no chance to solve the encounters where're 8 Eels in one of the two waves, because only the CRAB could fight against them well, but we still will lose at least 2 (if the terrain is good, the CRABs numbers are ridiculous) and there'll be a damaged one for the second wave too, so our chances to kill 8 of them with 6 are very low, even with my lvl 80 Orangery (the Eels will deinately kill our 2 unattached CRABs not some which turned from rogues in the most cases, now i'm talking about a lucky case when we could keep one unattached for the 2nd wave, if we use more than 2 CRABs, the Eels will kill one by the first step because only 5 must hit rogues and 3 can immediately shoot a CRAB, so it's a worse sollution).

To summarize, the era is very imbalanced again, the GE became easier than it was in AF, and that's not normal, especially because the Orangery doesn't affect on the half of the units at the most encounters (i wrote, i use 2 plasmas at all the last encounters where the enemy contains 4 plasmas and 4 CRABs), and i could still win all these encounters without losses!!! On the other hand, where we fight against 8 Eels in one of the waves the encounter becomes impossible without healing, and some others where're some Eels we must be very lucky too (i had some other problems with the habbits of theenemy AI, because the enemy units won't attack our rogues in every case even if they could reach all of them not just one)

I'm always talking about the fact that the game must be hard, challanging, but now i have to say, the balance is gone again and the game is not hard, it's easier than before, and there're some impossible encounters which can't be solved with good strategy and a little luck! The Eel must be changed somehow!

+1 suggestion, if we can get the 5 types of goods in the first part of an era, why can't we get the 5 types of units? That doesn't mean that we can't get more units in the 2nd, 3rd part (we had 2 heavy units in AF, so why not?). I think if we would get the 5 types in every 2nd part, the game could keep the balance, the old units doesn't have to be strong enough to fight against the new ones, and no rebalance needed later...

That's quite an interesting encounter, unfortunately we didn't unlock lvl 4 this week, so I had no chance to test it.
Just a thought though: wouldn't 2 BFs 6 rogues work? Eels would need 4 hits to kill a BF on first wave, the question is how many hits would a BF need to kill an eel? Eels have a range of 10 and BFs - 12, meaning you can place the BF far enough so it's out of the eel's range and thus make it move out of stealth mode. Of course we need a little luck with terrain, if it's full of bushes it won't work. If we lose only 2 units on first wave, there's a very good chance to win 2nd, as 8 CRAPs would need 8x3=24 hits to kill, our 6 BFs will also need 6x4 = 24 hits, but since the rogues have to turn to BFs first, that's 4 or 5 additional hits. Math says it should work ;)

Edit: just thought of something else. Maybe 1 dragon drone, 1 BF, 6 rogues. Hope that more rogues turn into drones on first wave. If they don't retreat and try again...it will happen eventually. Let the real drone die, so only 1 BF and rogues are left for 2nd wave? 1 BF 5 rogues will kill the 8 CRAPs on 2nd wave.
 
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