Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

[Emberguard]

I was only commenting on the test running longer and it being understandable

There’s also another factor that likely contributed to why it won’t be this year (and yes, this is purely speculation on my part)


Thread 'Changelog for Versions 1.168 and 1.169'
https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.c...changelog-for-versions-1-168-and-1-169.12456/

Thread 'Changelog for version 1.195'
https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/changelog-for-version-1-195.14155/

Thread 'Changelog for Version 1.220 & 1.221'
https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/changelog-for-version-1-220-1-221.15249/


The last three years ^ (I’m not checking further back) the January updates have been lumped together “due to the holiday period”.

If they already know they’re not going to be able to pay it their full attention during a major updates release, particularly one they expect to be a sensitive topic for at least 1-3 seasons after it’s initial release, they’re probably going to want to delay it until they know they’ll be able to give it their attention for the entire duration of that time period where it might need close monitoring

 

[Owl II]

Why these fantasies that the composition of the leagues has somehow changed, if you can open the ranking and make sure that this is not the case? We counted the number of diamond guilds in July, after the second or third season. It was then 98 diamond guilds and 56 of them in 1000. The total number of diamond guilds currently is 98. And 54 of them are in 1000. Micro guilds still present in diamond also, and even in 1000 there is one at the moment where there is only one player! This is a closed system. The total number of guilds does not change. The LP for a place in the group remained the same. How? How can you expect matches to change? If someone is thrown out of the diamond or out of 1000 in the current season, he will not be replaced by a stronger one. He will be replaced by the same weak participant, because he will come from the lower league. Did you see anything new in this? Hasn't it been working like this for 3 years almost?

 

[xivarmy]

Why these fantasies that the composition of the leagues has somehow changed, if you can open the ranking and make sure that this is not the case? We counted the number of diamond guilds in July, after the second or third season. It was then 98 diamond guilds and 56 of them in 1000. The total number of diamond guilds currently is 98. And 54 of them are in 1000. Micro guilds still present in diamond also, and even in 1000 there is one at the moment where there is only one player! This is a closed system. The total number of guilds does not change. The LP for a place in the group remained the same. How? How can you expect matches to change? If someone is thrown out of the diamond or out of 1000 in the current season, he will not be replaced by a stronger one. He will be replaced by the same weak participant, because he will come from the lower league. Did you see anything new in this? Hasn't it been working like this for 3 years almost?

Indeed the numbers must remain the same. But which guilds are where amongst that number may change.

In platinum there are guilds with few members who can build, and guilds with many members who cannot. If you reduce the effectiveness of building (by nerfing sieges), you tilt that towards the guilds who didn't build anyways - who generally can handle more raw attrition and thus are more effective in a beach-situation than a guild that relies on their ability to build to take off once they get off the beach.

 

[Owl II]

Indeed the numbers must remain the same. But which guilds are where amongst that number may change.

In platinum there are guilds with few members who can build, and guilds with many members who cannot. If you reduce the effectiveness of building (by nerfing sieges), you tilt that towards the guilds who didn't build anyways - who generally can handle more raw attrition and thus are more effective in a beach-situation than a guild that relies on their ability to build to take off once they get off the beach.

1)It does not matter for the system as a whole which guild will play placeholder in the diamond seasons, which builds or the one who does not build. They will both be sitting on the beach to get back to where they should be next season.
2) If only it worked, then yes, it's very smart to punish those who worked on the treasury to equalize them with those who worked on their personal goals. It's very supportive of team gameplay. But I don't think it's that simple. For a team game is not only about buildings. This is a set of tasks.
3) I have a table somewhere with the top 500 guilds from beta for July of this year. I can provide it so that you can analyze how it has changed since then. To not make assumptions, but to rely on facts.

 

[xivarmy]

1)It does not matter for the system as a whole which guild will play placeholder in the diamond seasons, which builds or the one who does not build. They will both be sitting on the beach to get back to where they should be next season.
2) If only it worked, then yes, it's very smart to punish those who worked on the treasury to equalize them with those who worked on their personal goals. It's very supportive of team gameplay. But I don't think it's that simple. For a team game is not only about buildings. This is a set of tasks.
3) I have a table somewhere with the top 500 guilds from beta for July of this year. I can provide it so that you can analyze how it has changed since then. To not make assumptions, but to rely on facts.

This is not our work to do, but the developers. No amount of arguments here will change a thing. Even if you did win me over to your side, it would be meaningless. The same if I won you to mine wouldn't change a thing.

So the only reason to do such work is if it's of interest - and scraping a huge database for trends isn't something I'm up for atm (would also need info on all the players in those 500 guilds, and at least a few slices of season by season to see how the guilds are moving around as where a guild is at an instant in time isn't particularly telling).

It's also not particularly important in that this is merely a potential secondary effect of the change. The point of the change being to ensure attrition does its job - it just may (or may not) come with additional upsides or downsides as the way players play changes. So the developers should find out what those are before adding additional changes (in addition to what presumably is the point of the test, that they're not in fact destroying participation levels in GBG with the change - number of players/guilds participating to some threshold they deem acceptable, not the number of fights by the top)

 

[Owl II]

This is not our work to do, but the developers. No amount of arguments here will change a thing. Even if you did win me over to your side, it would be meaningless. The same if I won you to mine wouldn't change a thing.

So the only reason to do such work is if it's of interest - and scraping a huge database for trends isn't something I'm up for atm (would also need info on all the players in those 500 guilds, and at least a few slices of season by season to see how the guilds are moving around as where a guild is at an instant in time isn't particularly telling).

It's also not particularly important in that this is merely a potential secondary effect of the change. The point of the change being to ensure attrition does its job - it just may (or may not) come with additional upsides or downsides as the way players play changes. So the developers should find out what those are before adding additional changes (in addition to what presumably is the point of the test, that they're not in fact destroying participation levels in GBG with the change - number of players/guilds participating to some threshold they deem acceptable, not the number of fights by the top)

That is, "no"? Ok, then all the arguments about who and where moved thanks to this wonderful nerf are empty chatter. Actually, this whole thread is filled with empty chatter. But there is no need to draw conclusions from scratch.

 

[kawada]

GBG seems to be lost forever and doesn't worth wasting time for further discussion.
I’ll be better be waiting for GE lvl 5, though Inno taught me to keep the expectations low.

 

[jovada]

I read a lot of contradiction again , everybody loose , no more camps are build etc....

Farmers doing 10.000 fights a season they loose fights
Normal active players doing 2000-3000 fights a season loose nothing cause they still can do that amount of fights , maybe easyer because whales are restricted now.
Guilds in lower era copper, silver and gold loose no fights , or they have no guildtreasury to buy camps or they just don't care and it's only a few individuals trying to farm.

No more camps are build ??? Is that a confession that the big farmers build them only for their own purpose and not for the guild ? Building no camps means that the normal active players from your guild are punished by the greedy (often the leaders of the guild) so they are not allowed to do 2000-3000 fights.

 

[Matt999]

I read a lot of contradiction again , everybody loose , no more camps are build etc....

Farmers doing 10.000 fights a season they loose fights
Normal active players doing 2000-3000 fights a season loose nothing cause they still can do that amount of fights , maybe easyer because whales are restricted now.
Guilds in lower era copper, silver and gold loose no fights , or they have no guildtreasury to buy camps or they just don't care and it's only a few individuals trying to farm.

No more camps are build ??? Is that a confession that the big farmers build them only for their own purpose and not for the guild ? Building no camps means that the normal active players from your guild are punished by the greedy (often the leaders of the guild) so they are not allowed to do 2000-3000 fights.

What data set are you using to determine that 2000-3000 fights a season is "normal"?

 

[jovada]

What data set are you using to determine that 2000-3000 fights a season is "normal"?

You see it in every big guild , a few whales, then active players 2000-3000 fights , and then the rest doing less fights.

And i say normal active players 2000-3000 fights , because that are the players who also fight with attrition and not only wait till they can fight without attrition

 

[HunZ95]

What data set are you using to determine that 2000-3000 fights a season is "normal"?

He has no data. actually he never said here that he could support the data, instead he has a delusion and explains everything with that. 75 players in a guild of 80 is completely stupid and they are only there that guild, so that the remaining 5 player have a lot of battles
It has been explained to him countless times how the gbg works in a top guild, but he doesnt really care about other peoples opinions, he thinks things can only happen the way he imagines.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

He has no data. actually he never said here that he could support the data, instead he has a delusion and explains everything with that. 75 players in a guild of 80 is completely stupid and they are only there that guild, so that the remaining 5 player have a lot of battles
It has been explained to him countless times how the gbg works in a top guild, but he doesnt really care about other peoples opinions, he thinks things can only happen the way he imagines.

All that he said was that every big guild has a few whales, some active players doing 2k-3k battles while the remainder do less. I've looked at about 100 top guilds and have seen the very same thing. So, you think that it's a "delusion". Let's take a look at your guilds just to see if circumstances are different there. What worlds do you play on?

 

[jovada]

He has no data. actually he never said here that he could support the data, instead he has a delusion and explains everything with that. 75 players in a guild of 80 is completely stupid and they are only there that guild, so that the remaining 5 player have a lot of battles
It has been explained to him countless times how the gbg works in a top guild, but he doesnt really care about other peoples opinions, he thinks things can only happen the way he imagines.

Blablabla yelling and shouting , but you know what i said is the truth, no matter that you say i don't know how a big guilds works.

Typical reaction of a profiteering player that sees his endless farming in danger.

 

[HunZ95]

All that he said was that every big guild has a few whales, some active players doing 2k-3k battles while the remainder do less. I've looked at about 100 top guilds and have seen the very same thing. So, you think that it's a "delusion". Let's take a look at your guilds just to see if circumstances are different there. What worlds do you play on?

no difference on my server.
the phenomenon that Jovada is talking about, this does not exist in small guilds.
Last time I played in a guild with 10 active people I got over 10,000 battles, most members got to 40 attrition maximum, and my guildmate had more battles than me. Who did we use? The remnant 8 players who only came to play in the evening after work/school? Let's stop joking.
and in the top guilds, those few players collect many battles at night, but the statistics pages count the 2-round battles as 2 battles, so these are also quite distorted data and do not reflect reality.
Of course, he always says nonsense, instead of digging a little deeper into things and thinking about what can be achieved with up to 10 players without tricks, evasions or uses. It's easier to always rely on the easiest excuse and set players with a lot of battles as greedy who will surely only achieve something by taking advantage of others.

 

[HunZ95]

Blablabla yelling and shouting , but you know what i said is the truth, no matter that you say i don't know how a big guilds works.

Typical reaction of a profiteering player that sees his endless farming in danger.

You don't know how it works, you prove it with every post you make. But you really have no idea about how GBG works, at least not about how to play effectively there as a team.
There is nothing in danger, everything has been built up to all the necessary levels for a long time, that's why I'm not going to lean on my sword because Zeus gives 2% less or more attack value.
On the contrary, it seems to you that the whole gbg is only about making a profit, because once you did not mention anything else on the subject apart from this thing.

 

[jovada]

On the contrary, it seems to you that the whole gbg is only about making a profit, because once you did not mention anything else on the subject apart from this thing.

Try to be correct and not telling lies everytime.
I only am against the profiteering selfish players doing 10.000 fights a season, they never do a step aside to let other members also do 10.000 fights from time to time , no they profit season after season.
I never was against active players doing 2000-3000 fights ,

 

[jovada]

Last time I played in a guild with 10 active people I got over 10,000 battles, most members got to 40 attrition maximum, and my guildmate had more battles than me. Who did we use? The remnant 8 players who only came to play in the evening after work/school? Let's stop joking.

Yes also typical , 2 or 3 players moving to a smaller guild so they can do a lot of battles , leaving that guild again when the treasury is empty hahaha.

 

[HunZ95]

Try to be correct and not telling lies everytime.
I only am against the profiteering selfish players doing 10.000 fights a season, they never do a step aside to let other members also do 10.000 fights from time to time , no they profit season after season.
I never was against active players doing 2000-3000 fights ,

anyone can fight 10,000 battles if they have invested enough time and have teammates, rather than wanting to achieve anything alone.. But everyone decides for themselves what fits into it or not.
So it is unnecessary to set that the one who has fewer battles is oppressed. They dont allow the 4-5 camp sector to be hit? How could anyone ban it? And even if they tried to ban him, what player in their right mind would tolerate it?

 

[HunZ95]

Yes also typical , 2 or 3 players moving to a smaller guild so they can do a lot of battles , leaving that guild again when the treasury is empty hahaha.

didnt win, I cant fight as much as in a top guild.
I switched because of a challenge, because GBG can be basically boring, I basically support changing GBG, but at the same time, I cannot support a nerf that causes a decrease in playing time and makes certain guilds impossible. And this would happen to my current guild as well, if the change is introduced.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

no difference on my server.
the phenomenon that Jovada is talking about, this does not exist in small guilds.
Last time I played in a guild with 10 active people I got over 10,000 battles, most members got to 40 attrition maximum, and my guildmate had more battles than me. Who did we use? The remnant 8 players who only came to play in the evening after work/school? Let's stop joking.
and in the top guilds, those few players collect many battles at night, but the statistics pages count the 2-round battles as 2 battles, so these are also quite distorted data and do not reflect reality.
Of course, he always says nonsense, instead of digging a little deeper into things and thinking about what can be achieved with up to 10 players without tricks, evasions or uses. It's easier to always rely on the easiest excuse and set players with a lot of battles as greedy who will surely only achieve something by taking advantage of others.

I don't know why you quoted me, evaded my comment, then submitted a response that had nothing to do with what I posted.