Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

[DEADP00L]

I will talk about my case only without sharing the other players, even if I know that I am not isolated.

My small guild consists of 20 members, including 15 fighters.
We play for fun, not to brag about being the best or even win huge amounts of rewards.
We refuse to merge so as not to lose our family spirit and our pleasure of playing together.

We have had these situations for two years:
- one in four GbG where we watch others having fun without being able to do much
- one out of four GbGs where we wait for other guilds to decide to take sectors
- and two out of four GbGs where we are facing fairly close guilds where we can finally have fun.

I'm not jealous of anyone, I just find it a shame that we can only have fun for 4 weeks every 2 months.
I would like my guild to stay in platinum, or even gold, but against guilds of the same abilities.
This nerf is not the right solution especially since according to MY analysis it is only intended to cap gains while restoring importance to attrition.
Nobody asked for this nerve but it should be noted that on Dunarsund, the medium and small guilds which find themselves with large guilds do not find themselves 24/7 faced with locks at the exit of their HQ.
So between only doing 30 fights per day (even if my city would allow me to do 3 times more) instead of the 0 before this nerf, it's still a step forward.

If the strong guilds had left the sectors in front of the HQ of the small guilds without blocking them, their checkerboard would have prevented tens, even hundreds of guilds from complaining, without questioning their superiority. I don't judge anyone, I only see the consequences of everyone's actions.
I'm not asking for nerfs against the stronger ones, nor help for the weaker ones, I just want more balance. And if Inno is not able to respond to my request, I would have found it normal for the big guilds to understand that their anti-game can only harm their earnings.

 

[Owl II]

I don't think guilds will be able to dominate in platinum anymore with this nerf, given the feedback from what you say about "soft" guilds.
So if they can no longer dominate in platinum, they will no longer have access to diamonds, so the diamond league would have fewer weak guilds.
I'm not prejudging anything, I'm saying it will take a few seasons to see if it works before we review the MMR system.

Do you have any idea who will take their place if amount of guilds and their strength have not changed?

 

[DEADP00L]

An idea yes, but totally useless to discuss probabilities instead of conforming to what we see.

 

[kawada]

but they earned the right to be there

and it is not your business to decide how they have play there

and who says: they cannot ?
for me it is: they don't want to

in live server, my friend and I are running a guild together, just two of us in the guild. Both are not active players anymore, just use GBG to get Himeji / Space carrier boosts and get some rewards
Normally, we’re in Platinum league, don’t build SC at all and take 1 sectors a day. A few times, it was enough to get to Diamond league And even spend 2-3 seasons there until we meet a bunch of strong guild in the season. Or we just purposefully didn’t fight to move back to platinum league

is it fair to sort league participants like that? Debatable
do we deserve to be in diamond league? also doubt so

 

[King Flush]

The sectors surrounding red and pink have no building slots. White and yellow are swapping everything in rings 1-3 as well as supported sectors in 4. But that wasn't the point. You cannot discern from the map the motivation, or lack thereof, of the beached guilds.

yes absolutely can put it down to effort, if not I ask you why is it even when we have allies on the map IE there are at least two big guilds on the map - there are some guilds that maybe only take a few sectors all campaign then there are others that come out fighting often are holding a handful of sectors they lose some they take some, occasionally even have guilds outside the alliance that properly race for sectors and at times they get there, they're all on even footings but some do alright some don't, please tell me why that is?

 

[DEADP00L]

There are as many ways to play FOE as there are players.
From this observation, there can be a multitude of underplaying in GbG:
- bitterness/weariness: by never being able to play, some guilds or some players give up
- holidays or IRL: we can't all be present every day on the game and with the same connection times as others
- the locations (I am currently experiencing it): when you have no possible location in the 6 sectors around the HQ and you have to perform 320 fights before benefiting from even a single SC, it can be tiring.
- MMR: some guilds do not want to evolve in GbG but the system is so badly done that they are often imposed unsuitable leagues.
- revenge: some guilds have been so restrained by others that they prefer to do nothing so as not to give additional fights to opponents.
- ....

I'm not criticizing you, @King Flush , your questions are interesting and prove that you seek to solve problems, but we all tend to believe that we have the best way to play and therefore that others do it badly.

 

[King Flush]

fair enough, it's unlikely we will ever agree on the nerf, but as I've said before, I haven't heard anyone from either camps who don't agree that the league system needs looking at to find a better way of doing things so surely the commonsense approach would be to look to indroduce something that seeks to rectify that problem than this which is obviously going to p1ss off so many players.

 

[jovada]

Well Whoopie! We should change all of GBG so some Guild, somewhere, conquers A sector. I'm sure everyone feels so much better now that you have explained everything.

Everyone ? no more players , of course the egoïstic not. And what a dumb reaction again , i explained nothing i only said there were a few positive reactions from smaller guilds.

 

[jovada]

There is no strategy now, strong guild takes tiles then waits a day or more for the weak guild to MAYBE retake tiles. Fights are not at 66% because they are at the weak guilds. Everyone loses. The one guild in my current league that could trade tiles with us has been to the middle once. It ran out of attrition... The rest are not able to compete

What nonsens again , can you explain with the same guilds what different strategy there would be before the nerf ??? The only difference is that you can not abuse the 0 attrition.

 

[Yekk]

What nonsens again , can you explain with the same guilds what different strategy there would be before the nerf ??? The only difference is that you can not abuse the 0 attrition.

Yes... but you would not listen to or hear me. Losing fights for your guild is more important to you it seems. You use the word "abuse" way to much. This league would have been a very good one for your guild without the nerf. One strong guild, two others that would not want full split map flips then your guild is a very optimal placing. Instead of asking for ways to make this happen more often you want to punish others...

 

[PackCat]

Moreover, such a game is a hellish hell for both a weak guild and a strong one. It's lucky if there is a second strong guild and you can swap tiles with it. Even if this guild is enemy to you, you still swap tiles. That's the design. That's gameplay. But there is nothing worse when you have to wait half a day when your neighbors on the map slowly exercise their constitutional right to farming a little

Currently we are in a season where we are ready to close sectors at will, but have to wait hours upon end for other Guilds to close sectors (sitting @150+), or they risk losing their flag. It is not the job of the better Guilds to babysit and nurse them along, even though that is exactly what we are having to do.

 

[PackCat]

I will talk about my case only without sharing the other players, even if I know that I am not isolated.

My small guild consists of 20 members, including 15 fighters.
We have had these situations for two years:
- one in four GbG where we watch others having fun without being able to do much
- one out of four GbGs where we wait for other guilds to decide to take sectors
- and two out of four GbGs where we are facing fairly close guilds where we can finally have fun.

I'm not jealous of anyone, I just find it a shame that we can only have fun for 4 weeks every 2 months.
I would like my guild to stay in platinum, or even gold, but against guilds of the same abilities.
This nerf is not the right solution especially since according to MY analysis it is only intended to cap gains while restoring importance to attrition.
Nobody asked for this nerve but it should be noted that on Dunarsund, the medium and small guilds which find themselves with large guilds do not find themselves 24/7 faced with locks at the exit of their HQ.
So between only doing 30 fights per day (even if my city would allow me to do 3 times more) instead of the 0 before this nerf, it's still a step forward.

If the strong guilds had left the sectors in front of the HQ of the small guilds without blocking them, their checkerboard would have prevented tens, even hundreds of guilds from complaining, without questioning their superiority. I don't judge anyone, I only see the consequences of everyone's actions.
I'm not asking for nerfs against the stronger ones, nor help for the weaker ones, I just want more balance. And if Inno is not able to respond to my request, I would have found it normal for the big guilds to understand that their anti-game can only harm their earnings.

OK, some of your comment makes sense, but some do not.
I am in a power Guild in 2 worlds.
We have approximately the same ratio of enjoyment, not because we are locked in our base, but because the lesser Guilds do not put in an effort to fight and win & exchange sectors.

OK, so we let them win some sectors outside their base, because it is no fun for us owning the entire map either.
But, then they just sit there on their 1 or 2 won sectors, DO NOT build camps to progress, and have the nerve to complain when 4 hours later, another Guild captures their sector(s), like they own them for the entire season or whatever.

I think there are (2) main issues here.
1) INNO has created the condition they are trying to eradicate. They have placed all the 2 and 3 camp sectors near the middle.
If they spread the slots more evenly throughout the map, it would not create so much of a free-fest in the center.
Also, they could make the cost of buildings more expensive near the center. Currently it is easier to build in the middle, because it usually only requires the newest age goods which is is usually plenty since the higher ranked players also obtain the latest age and have more treasury support.

2) You have a crop of Guilds and Players who do not understand the game. Some or most do not take the time to read the forums, discuss with others, or learn the general strategies according to what has been place before them. They complain they cannot get out of their base, without making an effort to show up at the right time, or coordinate with their members. They blame the better informed and coordinated Guilds for their own ignorance.

note: The reason most Guilds are locked in their base, is usually because they (have shown) do not offer a benefit to the map at large. They win a sector but do not swap with others in a timely manner. They take hours to complete a task that should not take longer than 5-30 minutes. They are like the old grandpa driving slowly and trying to get into the roundabout. No one wants to let him in and be stuck behind him putting along 20 miles below the speed limit.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Currently we are in a season where we are ready to close sectors at will, but have to wait hours upon end for other Guilds to close sectors (sitting @150+), or they risk losing their flag. It is not the job of the better Guilds to babysit and nurse them along, even though that is exactly what we are having to do.

What do the other Guilds' GBG commanders say when you communicate with them?

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I have a question and, I assure everyone that I am not trolling. There has been a lot of discussion about improving the league match-up process. Let's say that INNO modifies the process so that only top guilds (maybe the top 16?) are pitted against each other. In practice, what will this look like? Eight strong guilds fighting each other for the entire map? Four 2-guild partnerships each swapping 12, or so, sectors every 4 hours? Seems, to me at least, that farming depends on the map having several weak guilds on the field every season.

 

[DEADP00L]

Some or most do not take the time to read the forums, discuss with others, or learn the general strategies according to what has been place before them. They complain they cannot get out of their base, without making an effort to show up at the right time, or coordinate with their members. They blame the better informed and coordinated Guilds for their own ignorance.

Have you seen a lot of them complaining here?
I'm curious to read the ones you point to on THIS forum.
It's Inno who wants to change the Captains, there's no point in attacking with an accusatory tone the players who find this change appreciable as if they were the ones who had wanted it and imposed it.

I thought you were present and informed on this forum, yet you continue to believe that the nerve of SC is to facilitate small guilds, while the goal is to stop endless farming!
Like many angry players, you get the wrong fight by targeting the wrong reasons.

The reason most Guilds are locked in their base is that the distribution of the leagues is wobbly!
But when considering grouping guilds by abilities, those same professional guilds don't want to always be pitted against each other. They take pleasure in being 2 strong by penalizing the 6 weak for their farming comfort.

 

[PackCat]

Everyone ? no more players , of course the egoïstic not. And what a dumb reaction again , i explained nothing i only said there were a few positive reactions from smaller guilds.

OK, everyone has tried to treat the "smaller" Guilds with kid-gloves.
I will say it. They are Ignorant! Not a slur, just they choose to be that way because they do not make an effort to understand the game, read forums, or discussion strategies with their Guildmates. There are many super smaller Guilds and many dumb big Guilds.

GBG has several premises: You must show up at a certain time (just like GVG) and coordinate your members to fight together.
If you do not show up, you do not have a right to complain... especially at season opening.
You must continually fight for new sectors, you cannot just sit on a sector and expect everyone to leave you alone.
If you are not going to contribute to the greater good of the map, then you are going to be ignored or blocked.

 

[jovada]

Yes... but you would not listen to or hear me. Losing fights for your guild is more important to you it seems. You use the word "abuse" way to much. This league would have been a very good one for your guild without the nerf. One strong guild, two others that would not want full split map flips then your guild is a very optimal placing. Instead of asking for ways to make this happen more often you want to punish others...

Again nonsens , every day we took 4 or 5 sectors , and every day you pushed us back to HQ so we had to start again with full attrition, so don't come and tell me it would be other without the nerf. And i don't speak of "abuse" to much, every fighter doing +10.000 fights in a season is an "abuser" even 1000 fights a day is waiting for others to do the heavy fights and then you to take 5 1/2 sectors with no attrition at all and maybe 1/2 sector to use your attrition afterwards.

 

[PackCat]

I have a question and, I assure everyone that I am not trolling. There has been a lot of discussion about improving the league match-up process. Let's say that INNO modifies the process so that only top guilds (maybe the top 16?) are pitted against each other. In practice, what will this look like? Eight strong guilds fighting each other for the entire map? Four 2-guild partnerships each swapping 12, or so, sectors every 4 hours? Seems, to me at least, that farming depends on the map having several weak guilds on the field every season.

Good question... NO one in particular wants to have weak guilds in their seasons. If you had 4 strong Guilds on a map, then usually they will divide up the map into 4 sections. If you have 1 super strong, and 2 medium strong, the strongest Guild can cut the map in half and swap with the other 2 with each controlling their side of the map.
I have had seasons, where we swapped the map with 4 other Guilds. The issue in not the swapping, but in the waiting for other Guilds to move along or close their sectors for the good of the map.

And the top 20 should fight in 4 (5 Guild) seasonal matches.
8 Guilds on a map is asking for complaints and INNO should know better. Should never be more than 5-6 Guilds on a map.

 

[jovada]

Good question... NO one in particular wants to have weak guilds in their seasons. If you had 4 strong Guilds on a map, then usually they will divide up the map into 4 sections. If you have 1 super strong, and 2 medium strong, the strongest Guild can cut the map in half and swap with the other 2 with each controlling their side of the map.
I have had seasons, where we swapped the map with 4 other Guilds. The issue in not the swapping, but in the waiting for other Guilds to move along or close their sectors for the good of the map.

And now can you explain why only swapping counts ? nothing to do with farming i suppose.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

OK, everyone has tried to treat the "smaller" Guilds with kid-gloves.
I will say it. They are Ignorant! Not a slur, just they choose to be that way because they do not make an effort to understand the game, read forums, or discussion strategies with their Guildmates. There are many super smaller Guilds and many dumb big Guilds.

This statement is preposterous. You have no basis for this claim. Except for the guilds to which you belong you have no way of knowing, first-hand, what other guilds are doing to manage their GBG experience. Your opinion displays prejudice, pure and simple.