Discussion The future for FoE ?

[Townjest]

Should Forge of Empires be for real fairplaying players or for cheaters ??
For too long cheaters has been able to keep playing, and taking away the enjoyment fomo real fairplaying players, who ends up quiting the game..
So when is it enough for Inno Games, when will they start to do some real stuff, and secure their own games future ??

Inno Games is doing somethings to prevent cheating for sure... But not the right steps !!
For example they made cooldowns on buttons, so you cant speed-click.. Okay, lets break that down on what is does.
For cheaters using scripts, its easy to time those cooldowns, and progam it into the script, so there is no disadvantage there..
For real players, the cooldown is a pain in the a.. So why punish the fair playing part of players ?

What could be done ? Inno could use pixel-loggers, which logs which pixels are getting used, and if there is a pattern.
For a real person it is impossible to hit the same pixel over and over again, and in the same rythm, over a longer period.
And that is what a script does !! You could program more diversity in which pixel is activated, but in the end, there emerges a pattern !!!

Thats pretty easy to do, yes it takes server power, yes be cause their a lot of cheaters!! So i think we would all trade a longer waiting time, over no cheaters ;-)
When we are talking about cheaters, they all use scripts, either homemade or a specific programme.. So to ban a specific programme is useless !! Cheaters can change programme.. So thats why a pixel-logger is perfect, be cause it doesnt do anything else than log the pixels activated, and then its very easy to see if there is a pattern

Cheating is relevant on Beta and in all of the other servers in all of the countries.. So where can fairplaying players unite to express their frystrations toward cheating ??
Sadly i dont know.. But here on Beta, we are represented by a lot of different countries, so here we could get feedback from a lot of servers, so Inno Games could see that cheating is a real problem, they need to address quick and hard !!!

They need to hit pause on developing new stuff, thats not keeping fairplaying players in the game, if cheating is continued..
So please Inno Games, Cheating is real, and happening right now, and takinging away the thrill for honest fairplaying players !!
- Dear Beta Moderators and Supporters, this post is not meant to be commented by you. But it would be fantastic if you would report future comments back to Inno Games headquarters, so they could see that cheating is a bigger problem, than they think ;-)

Dear honest fairplaying players. Please comment on how you experience cheating, where is it seen, in which part of the game, if you are getting tired of cheating, and much appriciated if you suggest ways of preventing cheaters to cheat !!!
Do not comment on WHO is cheating or which GUILD is cheating. That doesnt solve anything !!

Best Regards Freki

 

[Thunderdome]

Inno might as well rewrite their Terms of Service since they are directly or indirectly allowing such to happen. Whether or not it affects my gameplay, I cannot say because it is kind of difficult to tell who is a cheat and who is a fair playing player; for as long as I get my trades in, that is what matters.

But, out of curiosity, would this have anything to do with that tele-novela I was reading through global chat by any chance?

 

[Townjest]

I have written about cheaters in general in Gobal Chat, if thats what you mean ?
i havent responded to anyones claims or anything else.. I am not interresteted in WHO !! Im interrested in cheaters getting banned and thrown out of the game ;-)

 

[Fire Witch]

And that is what a script does !!

I want to clarify here: scripts do not click anything at all. You probably mean auto-clicker software.

There are measures taken against bots and scripts and they are constantly updated.

Please write a ticket about players who might break the rules, so support can look into it and also let us know if you come across any software or bots. Thank you

 

[Kranyar the Mysterious]

I want to clarify here: scripts do not click anything at all. You probably mean auto-clicker software.

There are measures taken against bots and scripts and they are constantly updated.

Please write a ticket about players who might break the rules, so support can look into it and also let us know if you come across any software or bots. Thank you

Well, we all know that is basically a load of cow pucky.

A few might get a temp ban, but everyone knows that for the most part Inno does nothing. Same with push accounts. I've never seen a single one that I've reported get deleted, they just keep on keeping on. After people see total inaction, they simply stop reporting. I know I have. It is a running joke in most of my guilds, even among those who admit openly to using bots.

Why should I waste my time reporting when I know you'll do nothing?

 

[Townjest]

Dear Fire Witch Beta Moderator !

Auto-clicker software consists of scripts !! try to google this "make scripts to auto click on pixels" and you will learn that an auto-clicker software can be made with scripts

There is a reason i asked Beta Moderators not to comment ! Be cause They and the Supporters will write "You need to report..." and "We/Inno is doing a lot..." But as you already can see, players are not a firm believer of that. And this post is NOT focusing on IF Inno is doing something !! But focusing on WHAT Inno is doing now, is not working !!!

So Inno Games need to do some effective things to stop cheating, before all honest fairplaying players are leaving the game !
And i urge players to comment with ideas to help Inno Games about what they can do

And i urge players to comment on if the see cheaters, so Inno Games can see it a big problem

I want to clarify here: scripts do not click anything at all. You probably mean auto-clicker software.

There are measures taken against bots and scripts and they are constantly updated.

Please write a ticket about players who might break the rules, so support can look into it and also let us know if you come across any software or bots. Thank you

 

[Thunderdome]

I have written about cheaters in general in Gobal Chat, if thats what you mean ?

Thought it might be so, when I opened chat to see if anyone's still alive out there. I always play fair and had always tried to mind my p's and q's when playing. This means reading the Terms of Service (ToS) in its entirety, so that way when issues arise, I would be right there, quoting from such.

Just recently, I had to secure approval from Inno's staff since I operate a 4-AP network grid (one for lighting control, one for stuff at 2.4, one for stuff at 5.0, and a guest network that has a connection script running; the kind you get when you connect to a wi-fi network in public) and I was talking to people about the game that was played on my 4k monitor (along with other stuff) that got their interest in wanting to play (those poor souls).

If I have to jump through hoops to ensure nothing will happen to me when I play, why do cheats feel like they should get a free pass?

Why should I waste my time reporting when I know you'll do nothing?

Same question I had asked across many games that fell; only when a developer (or host) is ignorant to such happening that gets out of control.

 

[Kranyar the Mysterious]

So Inno Games need to do some effective things to stop cheating, before all honest fairplaying players are leaving the game !

The only thing that would restore trust in my opinion is to publish a list of the names in each world that have been perma-banned on a regular periodic basis. Not temp bans, only perma-bans. And Inno has said that they will never publish such lists, so therefore they will never have my trust on this issue, and unless I see something with my own eyes I will believe that whatever they are saying on the subject is a lie to sweep the issue under the rug. I would never expect them to discuss their detection methods or whatall.

That said, cheaters impact my game in a limited way, so I would never see myself leaving the game because of this issue unless it becomes rampant (and I don't think it is). I think that there are plenty of other issues that would drive me away first.

 

[MJ Artisan of War]

Although... thee more they allow/ignore it the more it grows towards rampant....

 

[Thunderdome]

The only thing that would restore trust in my opinion is to publish a list of the names in each world that have been perma-banned on a regular periodic basis.

So long ago, I remembered one game that had went to great lengths to list those that had scammed other players and/or had cheated by third party hacks, bots, and scripts. It was on for like a few months before the staff took it down, saying it violated the rights of said players and that they didn't need to be shamed.

To me, they lost that right the moment they committed the act... and I was glad to know who made it to such a list as it helped me to be a better player in avoiding those while interacting with those who don't do such.

 

[xivarmy]

So long ago, I remembered one game that had went to great lengths to list those that had scammed other players and/or had cheated by third party hacks, bots, and scripts. It was on for like a few months before the staff took it down, saying it violated the rights of said players and that they didn't need to be shamed.

To me, they lost that right the moment they committed the act... and I was glad to know who made it to such a list as it helped me to be a better player in avoiding those while interacting with those who don't do such.

There's legal issues potentially with name and shame policies I think. I don't know of a single company that does that anymore.

The most you might get is an announcement of a ban wave with numbers of accounts banned.

 

[Atokirina]

What could be done ? Inno could use pixel-loggers, which logs which pixels are getting used, and if there is a pattern.
For a real person it is impossible to hit the same pixel over and over again, and in the same rythm, over a longer period.
And that is what a script does !! You could program more diversity in which pixel is activated, but in the end, there emerges a pattern !!!

What about cheating via the app? Would there be anything you can think of to prevent that (I don't think a pixel logger would work there very well, or would it?)?

 

[BetaForumAccount]

What about cheating via the app? Would there be anything you can think of to prevent that (I don't think a pixel logger would work there very well, or would it?)?

App is actually way easier to detect. The app actually has more permissions on the phone and can detect scripts. I don't know if Inno does this, but it's certainly possible and way easier.

 

[Thunderdome]

What about cheating via the app? Would there be anything you can think of to prevent that (I don't think a pixel logger would work there very well, or would it?)?

I know auto-mouse clickers can be used with an app. I had used one to automate tasks while I am driving through Team Viewer on my tablet to my home system/server. Especially when I am on a series of road trips in the country that won't afford me the time to stop and fiddle with such but its fun to watch. And yes, I can drive safely as my office (workspace/station) is often mobile and I would plan out my routes and work orders. Only time I get to get behind my console is when I am done with a project and I had returned home.

Now, I don't do such for gaming. Takes the fun out of it. I just don't see how others see that as "enjoyable". You're done with a few clicks, then what? That's what I thought. Sorry, not this gent. If I am playing a game, I would play it for its entirety; else might as well just sign up, put it down, and go do something else since it is playing for you and you aren't good enough a player to really play.

There's legal issues potentially with name and shame policies I think. I don't know of a single company that does that anymore.

Yep, that's what they were crying about EXCEPT that the account isn't theirs; it's the gaming company/hosting service's property. A company can legally name the account they announce because it's their property, but they cannot release private details like email addresses (in the event the email is the user name, they will mask part of it), phone numbers, real names, etc. that links to a real person in the world, living or dead. This is why most gaming spots will tell users when they register for an account that said account user name must not contain any form of private information.

App is actually way easier to detect. The app actually has more permissions on the phone and can detect scripts. I don't know if Inno does this, but it's certainly possible and way easier.

Being that I used apps on my devices for work or entertainment purposes, I hardly pay attention to see if such will detect other things in use. I use TV to go into my computer to do some maintenance at a certain time when I am not home physically. On the entertainment side, I would watch movies I kept on the Plex server or turn on the PS4 controller to connect to an emulation system (Playstation or Super NES) to play some offline video games. And this is when I am done with work for the day. For me, driving is the best part (and yes, I had replied on the forum while doing so via voice dictation) because I don't have to deal with people after I am done... just the open road ahead of me in my roving office.

I am hoping Inno does take measures in combating these cheats. However, my trust and faith towards them wanes off very quickly because of things not being done.

 

[xivarmy]

Yep, that's what they were crying about EXCEPT that the account isn't theirs; it's the gaming company/hosting service's property. A company can legally name the account they announce because it's their property, but they cannot release private details like email addresses (in the event the email is the user name, they will mask part of it), phone numbers, real names, etc. that links to a real person in the world, living or dead. This is why most gaming spots will tell users when they register for an account that said account user name must not contain any form of private information.

Pretty sure that even user names are "too personal" to be used without permission under europe's laws now (i.e. the idea that someone could tie that username back to a person through data analysis).

 

[Thunderdome]

Pretty sure that even user names are "too personal" to be used without permission under europe's laws now (i.e. the idea that someone could tie that username back to a person through data analysis).

This warrants an interesting read and knowledge as I am a very curious gent now.

 

[Emberguard]

And Inno has said that they will never publish such lists, so therefore they will never have my trust on this issue

There’s legal reasons they won’t.

Pretty sure that even user names are "too personal" to be used without permission under europe's laws now (i.e. the idea that someone could tie that username back to a person through data analysis).

Oh definitely. Particularly as Facebook friend suggestion algorithms keep popping people up that I only knew by Forge of Empires Username, but recognised immediately when the Friend Suggestion came up.

You‘d have to keep the game 100% separate from everything for your username to not be a potential identifier of what your real name is. Don’t join the Facebook Group, don’t add Friends from Forge of Empires, don’t post on any Social Media in relation to the game, only then can you not be identified - and that assumes you weren’t already identifying by that username prior to playing the game. Anyone I grew up with probably still uses the same Usernames now that they used in Highschool, and would therefore be identifiable by Username.

Heck, so many times players post something in their username, then post the exact same thing in their real name. Sometimes within the same hour and then you’re reading it going “didn’t I just read this 5 mins ago?”

 

[MJ Artisan of War]

But.... aside from names, they could post weekly or monthly how many cheaters were caught and punished....
For instance..

337 Accounts flagged for Violations this week... .
153 Accounts Suspended
160 Accounts Removed
24 Accounts Under Review

 

[Pericles the Lion]

But.... aside from names, they could post weekly or monthly how many cheaters were caught and punished....
For instance..

337 Accounts flagged for Violations this week... .
153 Accounts Suspended
160 Accounts Removed
24 Accounts Under Review

Respectfully, do you think this will prove satisfactory? INNO now claims they investigate cheating and we all are aware of a limited number of suspensions (and perhaps even expulsions). If they are not believed now then how can a weekly/monthly report make a difference? IMO, if INNO takes this step there will be players demanding more detailed information. "Give a mouse a cookie and he'll want a glass of milk". I play a clean game, think cheating in this game is silly but have yet to see how others' cheating has any impact on my game. Nobody in-game is complaining, only here in the Forum and on Global. For me, it's much ado about nothing.

 

[DEADP00L]

Do you still believe in the communication and transparency of Innogames?
I'm going to hurt you, but do you know that Santa Claus doesn't exist?
And for the tooth fairy?