Feedback Space Age Titan

[Daenerys Targaryen]

Or I can go to titan, but continue using SAJM units, even having less auto-battle turnover in gbg, but ge5 will have to go only in negotiations or else choose to abandon the ge5. I just find it discouraging sometimes because they give you 1 step forward and 2 steps back, then they give you 2 steps forward and 1 step back and in the end we stay the same

 

[zzaann]

It makes all kinds of sense. They wanted to make fighting more balanced (which i approve of, though i find this particular balance state repetitive of VF, which i don't approve of - i want a new experience). But they need a carrot so people feel a bit of pain is worth it.

If you sit in SAJM until Space Hub comes out, you'll still need all those titan goods if you ever want to catch up on the GBs. You could blitz Titan to space hub if you feel it's better while leaving event buildings in Titan era - but it'll still take time for you to catch up.

There's also many players for whom "how fast can i fight with full siege camps in GBG" is not the primary concern. Probably more than the ones who are worried about it.

But ultimately it's up to you - act how you think you'll have the most fun. If it's not the way they wanted you to act, perhaps then they'll make some adjustments.

In this case "more balanced" means "worst".

What is the reason to move in SAT? The new GBs? The 12 expansions to pay with diamonds?

There are no attack % that can fix a bad unit specs. Level the new GE to 50, pay 1 million goods, fill all the new expansions with top buildings and you will not get even close on the fight quality and speed you can have in SAJM.

Do you want more points? In previous era you can do A LOT of more battles, so more points. You can still fight in RQ.
Do you want to do the same as before but with more pain? Move on.

 

[Daenerys Targaryen]

Funny that I remember well at the time they released SAV and the power dragon was overflowing a lot of power they quickly nerfed it in a week, now here...

 

[xivarmy]

In this case "more balanced" means "worst".

What is the reason to move in SAT? The new GBs? The 12 expansions to pay with diamonds?

There are no attack % that can fix a bad unit specs. Level the new GE to 50, pay 1 million goods, fill all the new expansions with top buildings and you will not get even close on the fight quality and speed you can have in SAJM.

Do you want more points? In previous era you can do A LOT of more battles, so more points. You can still fight in RQ.
Do you want to do the same as before but with more pain? Move on.

1) I want new experiences primarily. Being in the same situation for over a year gets old. If it was just a new unit to combine with 7 rogues and hit autobattle I would be even more disappointed than I am that they just recycled old abilities *again*.
2) I couldn't give a rat's ass about points. I'd never play the RQ-fighting game.
3) As for GBG it's dead to me in my main world almost. It's never fun. I'm waiting for them to overhaul it primarily - hopefully to a state where people want to fight each other rather than play pat-a-cake. I mostly play GBG in new worlds these days. Furthermore, in interesting situations, I'm willing to fight on manual to reach higher attrition - and that seems likely to be fine in Titan because mortar's back to fight anything without flyers.

 

[CrashBoom]

Funny that I remember well at the time they released SAV and the power dragon was overflowing a lot of power they quickly nerfed it in a week, now here...

funny
that first correct values (the values before was a copy/paste of SAJM values) are considered as a nerf

 

[Daenerys Targaryen]

at the time

funny
that first correct values (the values before was a copy/paste of SAJM values) are considered as a nerf

There was no SAJM at the time

 

[drakenridder]

am that they just recycled old abilities *again*.

The issue is keen eye, it takes 1 of the 2 ability slots. If they do away with keen eye more interesting and new ability combinations can be explored. For example a unit with Rapid deployment + dragon breath or dragon breath + reactive armour, or rapid deployment + contact! or stealth + contact! Rapid deployment + rage. This are just a few potential examples. To negate the effects of keen eye they could double units specs, like they've done with SAM vs VF.

 

[zzaann]

1) I want new experiences primarily. Being in the same situation for over a year gets old. If it was just a new unit to combine with 7 rogues and hit autobattle I would be even more disappointed than I am that they just recycled old abilities *again*.
2) I couldn't give a rat's ass about points. I'd never play the RQ-fighting game.
3) As for GBG it's dead to me in my main world almost. It's never fun. I'm waiting for them to overhaul it primarily - hopefully to a state where people want to fight each other rather than play pat-a-cake. I mostly play GBG in new worlds these days. Furthermore, in interesting situations, I'm willing to fight on manual to reach higher attrition - and that seems likely to be fine in Titan because mortar's back to fight anything without flyers.

So for you the new age is perfect because it seems you don't use the most common and important features of this games and you are just bored and want to see something new whatever it is.

But don't talk to me that this era is balanced because it is not. Balanced means an equilibrium between an effort and a reward. There can be most challenging things but there must be some kind of reward for that.

OF was much better balanced. In FE I was doing att 80. When I hit 8 hoovers I was dead. In OF I was able to reach the same attrition and choosing the right units I was able to continue and reach attrition 100. So here the balance was more complicated fights, more losses but the reward was more battles because of higher attrition.

What's the balance in SAT? I watched that video many times and I see only pain and no reward. You can go with whatever you want but the result does not change. You get hurt badly always and as reward you reach attrition 100 instead of 130. Good deal.

 

[drakenridder]

SAM as it stands now is the most balanced space age. Practically every unit made sense and had some purpose somehow. None exceeded too much. Similar to OF. While some units were more situational than others, they all offered quite a bit utility. SAV offers similarly quite a bit of balance. Though power dragons were really strong. In few cases even the steel fists were usable. It's just unfortunate that SAAB got the worse and SAT being wacky in its current state. SAJM feels also less balanced but still offering some situational utility through every unit. Just much less.
SAT has so far a strange balance. Ranged could've been decent but gets wrecked by fast, light and artillery. Anything that doesn't fly gets wrecked by artillery and flying's range been compromised makes it very hard to say what's really countering what. My best guesses are range/light + art. when facing few flying units. Though it's hard to pull off.

 

[xivarmy]

So for you the new age is perfect because it seems you don't use the most common and important features of this games and you are just bored and what to see something new whatever it is.

But don't talk to me that this era is balanced because it is not. Balanced means an equilibrium between an effort and a reward. There can be most challenging things but there must be some kind of reward for that.

OF was much better balanced. In FE I was doing att 80. When I hit 8 hoovers I was dead. In OF I was able to reach the same attrition and choosing the right units I was able to continue and reach attrition 100. So here the balance was more complicated fights, more losses but the reward was more battles because of higher attrition.

What's the balance in SAT? I watched that video many times and I see only pain and no reward. You can go with whatever you want but the result does not change. You get hurt badly always and as reward you reach attrition 100 instead of 130. Good deal.

When I say balanced, I mean within itself - that it's not just 1 army that works against everything. This is far from the only spot in the game where attrition may go down for the same behavior between two ages.

i.e. in one world long ago I was hitting 70 attrition regularly in TE in a manner I was comfortable with and then when i went to FE it dropped to below 50 unless i ran away from defending hovers. And many people *like* FE - because of its simplicity in that "if hovers don't work, nothing does".

in my original main world when i moved from SAM to SAAB at release I had a similar experience - was passing 60 easily, moved to SAAB, struggled to hit 50. But the autobattle drones love SAAB too. Because nailstorms were the only good unit so if I ran into defending nailstorms near my limit and needed to win, I ultimately wound up using Mars flyers.

You just learn to cope with the new reality. You build more stats. You may never reach the heights you could've if you hadn't advanced. But you get new challenges. It's possible that I will use Jupiter units sometimes in Titan - both the grenadier when there's no artillery because contact is crazy and the flyer possibly if range matters more than AO and base stats. But at least the Titan flyer isn't a useless Hover Hammer It'll be an interesting counterpoint between higher stats and AO with inferior range or old-flyers with better range.

 

[CrashBoom]

at the time
There was no SAJM at the time

I talked about your

... now here...

 

[zzaann]

When I say balanced, I mean within itself - that it's not just 1 army that works against everything. This is far from the only spot in the game where attrition may go down for the same behavior between two ages.

i.e. in one world long ago I was hitting 70 attrition regularly in TE in a manner I was comfortable with and then when i went to FE it dropped to below 50 unless i ran away from defending hovers. And many people *like* FE - because of its simplicity in that "if hovers don't work, nothing does".

in my original main world when i moved from SAM to SAAB at release I had a similar experience - was passing 60 easily, moved to SAAB, struggled to hit 50. But the autobattle drones love SAAB too. Because nailstorms were the only good unit so if I ran into defending nailstorms near my limit and needed to win, I ultimately wound up using Mars flyers.

You just learn to cope with the new reality. You build more stats. You may never reach the heights you could've if you hadn't advanced. But you get new challenges. It's possible that I will use Jupiter units sometimes in Titan - both the grenadier when there's no artillery because contact is crazy and the flyer possibly if range matters more than AO and base stats. But at least the Titan flyer isn't a useless Hover Hammer It'll be an interesting counterpoint between higher stats and AO with inferior range or old-flyers with better range.

- SAM was an era where I did a bit lower attrition but the reward was faster fights because of 2 heavies and rouges could do everything and always. I'm fine with that.

- SAAB honestly I skipped, got all the ice needed with diamonds and moved immediately to Venus.

- SAV: Probably the best era for fighting, +20 attrition respect SAM with the same %, very fast battles, at low and mid attrition with power dragons and on high attrition with 8 energy cannons. Awesome.

- SAJM: More complicated than Venus. At high attrition you must swap units. If there are too much artillery you go with 8 fast. If there are 8 heavies you go with 8 artillery. Reward: much more space to fill that can bring to some points of more attrition.

- SAT: with the current stats, for "me" is an era to skip. I'm full of packets of pf, will not be a problem to buy the goods in the next months just to have those 3 GB leveled to 20, maybe.

 

[Daenerys Targaryen]

- SAV: Probably the best era for fighting, +20 attrition respect SAM with the same %, very fast battles, at low and mid attrition with power dragons and on high attrition with 8 energy cannons. Awesome.

I even miss SAV heheheh Best space age, only sinned for not exploring flying floating buildings and a floating city hall as they tried to do with gb.

 

[xivarmy]

- SAT: with the current stats, for "me" is an era to skip. I'm full of packets of pf, will not be a problem to buy the goods in the next months just to have those 3 GB leveled to 20, maybe.

That's fair. And yes, it's always disappointing when you're near the end and the most recent era is one that's not "your flavor" - I think during SAAB was when my highest era city got converted to a diamond mine - not all SAAB's fault, but it probably contributed some that I really didn't like it.

Sometimes I mind those eras less when i'm not stuck there. i.e. I was very unhappy in OF when it was the last era (no GBG at the time, so that wasn't even a consideration - but I was wishing to be back in AF - at least in part because the hover tank was even stronger in OF than in AF and there was a lack of challenges at the time to try and motivate me to using other armies so GE4 was simply the "hover tank shuffle" which was easy, repetitive, and tedious). But on my "new main" when it passed through OF I actually enjoyed my time there.

One thing I learned though from playing the "should I move up?" game with other players experiences in my first world is that it's highly unreliable. People told me to move to FE from TE and I hated it and wished I'd stayed in TE. People told me not to move to AF, and I ended up loving it when I eventually did.
When OF came out I was finally at the end and was no longer asking the question anymore - not that I would've trusted the response I got from others anymore. I've moved up at release (and either regretted it or loved it) for every era since on that original world of mine.

Currently my new main is in VF, and was already planning to move to mars. I'm now making plans to run it to Titan fast because of the GBs, but the SAJM diamond mine will move up first just to be sure it's not intolerable. But even if it is, it's in the long run just another flavor to pass through

 

[mcbluefire]

The past ones on live have launched a day or two before a new season - tempting people to move up and need the new goods for buildings the upcoming season with no stockpile. Whether that's a plan or a coincidence.

Actually they've been very sporadic on how they've released ages in comparison to GbG start:
SAM: Tuesday 5/28/2019 - no GbG in the game as of yet.
SAAB: Thursday 4/23/2020 during a GbG season.
SAV: Thursday 4/15/2021 just moments before GBG opened and yes....it was a few days of SC limiting.
SAJM: Monday 4/25/2022 3 days prior to GbG opening. My guild had no issue being ready for GbG.

 

[-Alin-]

At least I was able to beat full auto the first 12 fights, kind of, the 11th fight of level 5 I was beaten once and I went manual on that fight for the second time which I won.
No camps built. 13th fight is tough, could not beat it yet with my not so high stats, I will try again with several blue potions later and see what will be, The last fight of GE V can be beaten easily because it doesnt have flying units, so going with 8 artilerries with their mortar ability is easy win.

Combos used, 6 flying with 2 rogues, 8 artilerries against fights that doesnt have flying units and 8 flying units, other combos mean insta death, you will be wiped out instantly.

Spoiler: GE

 

[zzaann]

That's fair. And yes, it's always disappointing when you're near the end and the most recent era is one that's not "your flavor" - I think during SAAB was when my highest era city got converted to a diamond mine - not all SAAB's fault, but it probably contributed some that I really didn't like it.

Sometimes I mind those eras less when i'm not stuck there. i.e. I was very unhappy in OF when it was the last era (no GBG at the time, so that wasn't even a consideration - but I was wishing to be back in AF - at least in part because the hover tank was even stronger in OF than in AF and there was a lack of challenges at the time to try and motivate me to using other armies so GE4 was simply the "hover tank shuffle" which was easy, repetitive, and tedious). But on my "new main" when it passed through OF I actually enjoyed my time there.

One thing I learned though from playing the "should I move up?" game with other players experiences in my first world is that it's highly unreliable. People told me to move to FE from TE and I hated it and wished I'd stayed in TE. People told me not to move to AF, and I ended up loving it when I eventually did.
When OF came out I was finally at the end and was no longer asking the question anymore - not that I would've trusted the response I got from others anymore. I've moved up at release (and either regretted it or loved it) for every era since on that original world of mine.

Currently my new main is in VF, and was already planning to move to mars. I'm now making plans to run it to Titan fast because of the GBs, but the SAJM diamond mine will move up first just to be sure it's not intolerable. But even if it is, it's in the long run just another flavor to pass through

I start to play in 2020 so everything was here when I born

What I learned is that many players had a different feeling while fighting and crossing the eras and that depends by own red stats. If you don't have stats enough high for the era you suffer because the attack and defending bonus agains other units are too relevant. When I was in PE with 200/200% I was forced to use the ranged units because the defending boost of 30 + 30 depending on the terrain. When I got 300% attack the relevance of these bonus decreased and I started to be able to use tanks in every battle.

I just hope inno will buff some units like the fasts or nerf bit the artillery in SAT.

 

[xivarmy]

I just hope inno will buff some units like the fasts or nerf bit the artillery in SAT.

Mostly what I think the age needs if it was going to get a tweak is a better anti-fast. Which for the moment falls to rogues (possibly with jupiter harpoons).

In-age all you've got against 8 fasts is better-stats and stupid-ai-wastes-its-first-hit-on-rogues. The heavy is heavily handicapped as all heavies since SAAB have been. And the light still needs you to have really good stats for the force field 2 to be reliable (keen eye doubles before force field, so you have to reduce the base damage taken to say at least 3 (*2=6-2 = 4) to be "tanky". The ranged having a meaningless ability since it only exists to counter the heavy that gets blown up by fasts and artillery before it might hide anyways.

When you don't have to beat fasts, you can just use artillery. So if there's a good answer in-age to what to do with defending fasts, I think it'd be pretty well rounded. Short of switching the heavy to "stealth on plains" instead of rubble though, I don't see simple tweaks to make it happen. And I suspect if the heavy stealthed on plains people might mind that too (now 2 units counter the artillery, the heavy still sucks because of a lack of range but is just annoying without using the ranged unit that kinda sucks against everything else, and fasts now have to worry about heavies). It'd be interesting, but perhaps a bridge too far considering people are objecting to "it's not just one unit on auto" even

 

[drakenridder]

The problem the devs have created by nerfing heavies into canon food, is that no suitable fast-counter unit exist. Heavies used to tank fast's first wave of attacks and punished them after. With 3 range, stealth on rare terrain, little movement and above all else too little defence specs/lack of good defensive ability, they're unable to fulfil their role as a good anti-fast unit.
If the devs would buff the SAT heavies to get their range restored to what was in SAM + buffing their defence specs + good defence terrain bonus on plains, they're making a good chance to be a serious fast-counter. Another option is to swap out stealth for contact! + range restored to what was in SAM + better defence specs. This way fasts would once more have something to fear them for, not laugh at them and shut them down with 1-2 shots. Even octopods of OF are more scary for fast than TAS' heavies.

Example:

TAS heavy: range 8, ability contact! Stronger defence specs
Counter: art. + ranged, they're out ranging their contact!
Countering: fast, if they're attacking the heavy likely survives and hits back really hard, even when using SAJM's fast

Ranged countered by: fast

 

[zzaann]

The problem the devs have created by nerfing heavies into canon food, is that no suitable fast-counter unit exist. Heavies used to tank fast's first wave of attacks and punished them after. With 3 range, stealth on rare terrain, little movement and above all else too little defence specs/lack of good defensive ability, they're unable to fulfil their role as a good anti-fast unit.
If the devs would buff the SAT heavies to get their range restored to what was in SAM + buffing their defence specs + good defence terrain bonus on plains, they're making a good chance to be a serious fast-counter. Another option is to swap out stealth for contact! + range restored to what was in SAM + better defence specs. This way fasts would once more have something to fear them for, not laugh at them and shut them down with 1-2 shots. Even octopods of OF are more scary for fast than TAS' heavies.

Example:

TAS heavy: range 8, ability contact! Stronger defence specs
Counter: art. + ranged, they're out ranging their contact!
Countering: fast, if they're attacking the heavy likely survives and hits back really hard, even when using SAJM's fast

Ranged countered by: fast

This doesn't sound well. Don't give inno worst ideas than those they already have.