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Feedback Space Age Jupiter Moon (SAJM)

Zuckerberg the Horrid

Squire
davidsabratt said:
Proof that the Roman Empire had space travel. They built a colloseum ( AI Space Core) on Jupiter. Totally worthless
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I interpreted that as a direct troll from the game designers, telling us to stop bitching about the ****ty new GB by highlighting the most worthless GB in the game right in the centre of the test city

Edit: oops you mean the AI Core is a colosseum.. what I meant was that the test cities they gave us all had a high level colosseum built in the center, surrounded by multiple rings of watchfires
 

JosefD

Merchant
Yekk said:
How a company uses its resources (employees) is finite. Misallocating their time leaves them with no time to do what is important. Guild Perks as an example. It took many man-hours to create. Wasted time as they never used a focus group to access if their vision was what the players wanted or would accept. After version 2 they finally asked a small group for input. GB's are another example. Players are not allowed to suggest new GB abilities. We get a hunk of junk AI Core as a result...
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Correct - they are misallocating their time. Who needs things like Guild Perks or the event hub? They should have used their time to develop the new age instead. All these goofy things only left them time to copy-paste the age.
 
GateKeeper

GateKeeper

Baronet
It might have been suggested, or even listed on the DNSL, but the new GB, why not make it Age/Era select-able for guild goods? I know Inno stance on "Aging Up", but for seasoned players in any Space Age eras already most likely have a very high lvl arc, obs and 50% of those players might have a decent lvl Atom, need another GB for guild goods in Space Age eras? Make this GB age/era select-able, with a time lock, say 3 months at a time. We have a time lock on name changes, so lets get this on this GB.
 

crabbyoldman

Squire
Zuckerberg the Horrid said:
Players in later ages accumulate resources more quickly so I don't think this is an issue, would you prefer if everything was priced the same as bronze age? 3fp per tech?
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You missed the whole point. They reduced the amount of diamond rewards, negating the high level chateau I worked for. They continue to make things more expensive for those that pay to play and give less and less in return. The new GB is worthless for end game players such as I, just as the Flying Island was in Venus
 
CrashBoom

CrashBoom

Legend
davidsabratt said:
They reduced the amount of diamond rewards,
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then give exact numbers and don't just say: they reduced it :rolleyes:

SAV: story questline (all values I post are the base value. CF increases that): once 50 and once 150 (last quest, so it would take long for me to confirm that those are different in SAJM)
side quests: two times 50 and once 100
recurring quests: 20 diamonds each quest

SAJM ?
I already reached the 50 in story questline (quest 20)
and reached the first 50 in side quests

so to proove your point they reduced the amount of diamonds what are the diamonds in the last story quest and the other side quest diamond rewards ?
 

Zuckerberg the Horrid

Squire
davidsabratt said:
You missed the whole point. They reduced the amount of diamond rewards, negating the high level chateau I worked for. They continue to make things more expensive for those that pay to play and give less and less in return. The new GB is worthless for end game players such as I, just as the Flying Island was in Venus
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then maybe you shouldn't have buried your point with your rant about the tech costs.
 
drakenridder

drakenridder

Overlord
Perk Creator
CrashBoom said:
AI Core values at 58: x9 39.46%
(Himeji 58: x9 45.84%)

so most likeley it will end at x10 and 45%
(very unlikely but maybe even 50%)

not really very much:
an extra of 4.5 productions compared to the size of 3 synthesizers it already needs

and those goods are really only for tech tree (synthesized special goods can't even be used to produce goods of the same age in the colony)

and for that reason it should also be applied to the special goods on the map ;)
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When applied on the cmap it's at least somewhat useful.
Estimated lvl: 58
Bonus at lvl58: 39,46%
Estimated special goods prod AF/OF port / large space age deposit: 90

90 * 1,3946 boost = 125,514 ~ 126

Landing you at an additional 36 goods. Just decant for it's investment and justified as this also applies to the OF and AF ports. As they also typically are roughly producing around 90 goods a day or more. While those synthetic goods aren't even at an meaningful boost. Nevermind the requirement for 2x2 roads and 3x3 space for buildings to make use of this GB. It's very limited useful the way it is now: AF and OF decently useful as was promised in the announcement.

Well, remember how hard it was to collect all the special goods in the past …?
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Well yeah and even with this GB that problem persist cause it doesn't work in space age Mars, not even on SAJM to solve that issue cause it's not applied on the cmap o_O
With this Great Building, you collect more special goods in the future for a certain amount of rounds!
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That's an false promise. Cause if this is true, it would also be applied to the space age cmap goods. Cause there we'll collect special space age goods in space ages and I don't know but this was an Space Age Jupiter's Moon GB, right? Not an Arctic Future or Oceanic Future GB? Cause at the moment it's mostly only useful in those ages until you're prom and ori stocks are satisfying for the rest of the game.
 

shadeshifter

Farmer
GateKeeper said:
It might have been suggested, or even listed on the DNSL, but the new GB, why not make it Age/Era select-able for guild goods? I know Inno stance on "Aging Up", but for seasoned players in any Space Age eras already most likely have a very high lvl arc, obs and 50% of those players might have a decent lvl Atom, need another GB for guild goods in Space Age eras? Make this GB age/era select-able, with a time lock, say 3 months at a time. We have a time lock on name changes, so lets get this on this GB.
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Actually, somewhere here came up the idea to make it like the Alcatraz: It produces Guild Goods from any Goods Production building you have in town. So, assuming your guild lacks Tomorrow-Era guild goods, you could build a "Smart Materials" factory and whoops, your AI core makes those guild goods. This would of course mean an adjustment, isntead of 2 of each goods of you era, make it 5 of the goods of which you have the factory in town per level. So, at lvl 10, it makes 70 guild goods, and then 5/level (420 at lvl 80, 520 at lvl 100). This is ofc way less than the Arc would give, but you can select the goods it makes. I also think it fits to the building lore-wise, as a superior AI would be able to create goods in whichever fashion you want it!
 

Markus Stormrider

Regent
my problem with the new GB is that the guild goods are barely better (or even worse) than the Observatory GB (which is smaller and MUCH cheaper :p). If they make the AI core give 3x or even 4x the current amount of guild goods, it would become a must-have building imho,
 

Yekk

Regent
iPenguinPat said:
I think the value of the special goods bonus is being a bit underrated because so many players giving feedback are on the other side of the AF to SAV grind. Yes there will be leftover charges in AF/OF; however, you'll still be able to reduce the amount of time to collect the required Orich by 20-30% depending on the level. For most players, that's a couple of weeks. Considering players are often willing to power level SC from X to 91 just to cut down on time spend in OF, i think it's fair to say a predictable reduction is much appreciated.

One thing i hadn't considered is how much players will appreciate the boost for synthesizers. When you sit in the max-age for months and up to even a year, it's easy to stockpile enough special goods for the upcoming ages. If you're starting from 0 for SAM, SAAB, and SAV goods and you're trying to race to SAJM asap, then you may not want to stay in each of those ages until you collect enough special goods to cover research for the following ages. (i.e. saving up 30k+ Mars Ore, or whatever the amount is, before moving to SAAB).

Having the option to age up and still produce a decent amount of Ore, Ice, or Carbon is actually still a major benefit for players making the FE -> Max age journey.

This GB doesn't really do much to address the needs of players in SAJM. The importance of the new GB being helpful/valuable to the players moving into the new age can certainly be debated.

As noted in my previous post, innogame knows that we're going to sell this GB to early age players anyways. This GB does actually fill the specific needs of the majority of players (i.e. not in top tier guilds + not fully developed + not at the end of the game). If I'm going to take a glass half full approach, I'd look at this as something to make a ton of "effective" FP from by selling it to early age players. We all know that early age players are going to want it far before it's useful to them. At least we can feel good selling it to someone rather than like we're ripping them off with the flying noob trap. We still get benefit from the GB by being in SAJM if we choose to play smart :)
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A better solution would have been to lower the Ore required by 20-30% huh? This new GB's second ability was done to fix a problem every other games does regularly. That is rebalancing an area of the game that was mis-thought, done to address what was a "problem" but now is detrimental to progression. Games rebalance as "problems" arise... Normally my way is done which does not hurt the majority of players. Only Inno would take something great and make it less so...
 
beelzebob666

beelzebob666

Overlord
Pathfinder
Spoiler Poster
The problem with the special goods boost simlpy is that the front runners do not have anything from it. Even if the boost was extended to work with the exploration sites as well... that would only shorten the time until the front runner has to wait for the next age to come anyway.

As was said before, such a boost might be proper for an additional GB that is introduced in AF to make it easier for the runner ups to catch up, though.

The guild goods are an OK choice, but it is feels very expensive - the GB simply costs way more in comparison with other guild goods GB - it has a small footprint, but if the production was higher, that would make more sense - maybe up the production to 3 goods per level instead of 2 goods per level or something like that... On the other side, guild goods are a bottleneck for many guilds active in GBG and they would probably go to great length to increase guild goods production.
 

alm1983

Farmer
Inno wants to continue with the idea of this new big building that's fine, even though most of us players don't like it. But at least make a second great building that interests us.
 

Yekk

Regent
beelzebob666 said:
The problem with the special goods boost simlpy is that the front runners do not have anything from it. Even if the boost was extended to work with the exploration sites as well... that would only shorten the time until the front runner has to wait for the next age to come anyway.

As was said before, such a boost might be proper for an additional GB that is introduced in AF to make it easier for the runner ups to catch up, though.

The guild goods are an OK choice, but it is feels very expensive - the GB simply costs way more in comparison with other guild goods GB - it has a small footprint, but if the production was higher, that would make more sense - maybe up the production to 3 goods per level instead of 2 goods per level or something like that... On the other side, guild goods are a bottleneck for many guilds active in GBG and they would probably go to great length to increase guild goods production.
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Guild goods are a good second ability but only as the second spot. I have heard some say strong players level up GB's to quickly. Justifying Inno making new GB abilities weak. Very true but irrelevant. A new weak GB hurts everyone. The weaker playerss more than the strong. FP cost to level up matters. High age GB's need high age abilities.
 
iPenguinPat

iPenguinPat

Squire
Yekk said:
A better solution would have been to lower the Ore required by 20-30% huh? This new GB's second ability was done to fix a problem every other games does regularly. That is rebalancing an area of the game that was mis-thought, done to address what was a "problem" but now is detrimental to progression. Games rebalance as "problems" arise... Normally my way is done which does not hurt the majority of players. Only Inno would take something great and make it less so...
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I agree with you - simply rebalancing the cost makes way more sense. That is what a player focused gaming company would do. Does anyone hold the opinion that innogames puts players in front of profit?

Yekk said:
Guild goods are a good second ability but only as the second spot. I have heard some say strong players level up GB's to quickly. Justifying Inno making new GB abilities weak. Very true but irrelevant. A new weak GB hurts everyone. The weaker playerss more than the strong. FP cost to level up matters. High age GB's need high age abilities.
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We're at a point where it's obvious that end game players are not a priority for innogames. Forge of Empires is nothing more than a cash cow at this point and innos "creative" power has turned toward other new games (where they also recycle the successful aspects of Forge). They remove the parts of Forge that they don't want to maintain or deal with (i.e. GVG) to make those games better for them - not necessarily the players.

Notice that nothing coming out is focused around end-game players. Everything is built around getting new players from square one and moving to the end game. AF/OF has always been a hurdle that has discouraged players from aging up. Players camping in PE or FE limits inno's diamond sales per player because they max out on space and have less need to keep spending to fill their city up. It benefits inno to move more players from PE/FE to SAJM because there is more space to fill and therefore more reason to spend.

So as to end game players, we can choose to accept the model of getting players to build up as quickly as possible and be happy if that indirectly benefits us (i.e. guild leaders get more high end fighters). We can continue to be upset about copy/paste ages and bad GBs. We can quit.

One thing that I do not see happening is innogames doing anything significant that benefits end games players unless it benefits early/mid game players development more (and encourages them to continue to age up rather than camp). Do we have evidence to the contrary?

So with that said, my feedback is with from the frame of a competitive guild leader that gains more benefit from developing fighters faster than i get from adding 100's of attack or FP or Units. There's literally nothing to buff my city (and most end game players could say the same, I'm not a special snowflake) that would benefit the guild more than the younglings coming up faster and more effectively. I admit that's not everyone's preference - simply trying to offer a reframe that could make the game more enjoyable for some that are dissatisfied.
 

vdumitrescu20

Farmer
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