New Balance to Daily Quests.

[DeletedUser9410]

I would like to see the daily quests and the rewards being reviewed
I feel it is totally unbalanced as in many cases the rewards offered are less than what the quest requires of you to do.
Here is a classic example.

The quest.

The reward.


As you can clearly see the quest requires you to spend 18 Fp, however the reward has 35% chance of giving 5 Fp back and 30% chance of 20 Fp back BUT only 20% of 50Fp and 15% of 100Fp.

How many people really believe that either of the higher 2 will be won?

How can we be asked to do something where the chances are great we will win LESS than we spent?
I feel this is badly balanced and needs to be looked at by INNO. I used to enjoy doing the DQ until i realized that most of the time we stand to lose more than we win, in any game or competition the player should at least have a sense of achievement after doing the requirement, NOT a sense of loss.
Please note: its not the quest itself i have an issue with, most quests are easy enough and can even be integrated with your normal daily routine, or even with any event that is being done at the time.
Its the balance of the rewards that's the issue.
There are quests where you have to gain sectors in the map or do X amount of GE, many quests you will spend Fp, Goods or lose troops, and in many of these the reward is sometimes 50% or 70% that you will win a few Fp or WORSE a Palm Tree, whilst there is a 10% or 5% chance of winning something "decent"
I for one will be very grateful if this is changed in a positive way, i'm hoping others will agree with me ( i realize perhaps some people will think its fine as it is )

 

[DeletedUser]

lol

spend FP is something that we do anyway

that is the easiest part of the DC and costs absolutely nothing

if you DON'T spend 18 FP then it would cost you FP


can I have those 5 FP reward a hundred times a day please for defeating an army and spending 18 FP

most quests are easy enough and can even be integrated with your normal daily routine

spending FP

 

[MagicMiam]

Hello,
The average you get from this chest is 0.15x100+0.2x50+0.3x20+0.35x5 = 32.75 fp !
Plus, "spend 18 fp" means you actually use them somewhere that benefits to you e.g one of your GB.

 

[DeletedUser9410]

Hello,
The average you get from this chest is 0.15x100+0.2x50+0.3x20+0.35x5 = 32.75 fp !
Plus, "spend 18 fp" means you actually use them somewhere that benefits to you e.g one of your GB.

Please can you explain this a bit more. Sorry, i understand average, but you dont get an average you get a set amount and the odds are great you will get the 5 fp.
Yes any active player probably will spend more than 18 fp a day ( i spend a lot more ) and to say, ok at least you get 5 fp back is all well and good, but i can do a few encounters in ge and get a lot more better rewards. Or post them on someones Gb and get a lot better rewards back.
And i understand that you guys are saying that many of these things you will do anyway.
But how many players are happy to aquire 5 sectors in the campaign map when they dont want to advance in it and win a palm tree or 5 fp ?
My point is why bother doing the Dq when most of the time you will far better rewards just by doing your normal daily routine.

 

[DeletedUser]

spend 18 Fp

The 18FP spend aint lost or thrown away, so no cost to u at all, u get those 18 FP by just logging in morning and evening if u dont use those FP from the bar then they are lost

 

[DeletedUser9410]

The 18FP spend aint lost or thrown away, so no cost to u at all, u get those 18 FP by just logging in morning and evening if u dont use those FP from the bar then they are lost

Yes i understand all that as i said originally, its NOT about the quest requirement, its about the reward. You dont do the DQ to win a few Fp, you do it for the other prizes, upgrades or new buildings etc.


Here is another, if a person does this they want to win one of the 4 main prizes, but there is a 40% chance of a ( lets face it, for most players ) useless palm tree.
Maybe im missing something here that someone can point out to me why its worth paying 234k coins or doing 55 X productions ( how many people can do that in 1 go ) for a palm tree * which we will get most of the time )
And BEFORE someone points out the obvious.. YES I KNOW you dont have to do it and you can just wait for a better one another day ( that might take a while )

 

[DeletedUser9410]

My reason for starting this discussion is that i feel personally either the rewards are not evenly balanced compared to the requirements or there's something here that i'm not seeing and hopefully someone can point out what it is and why its worth taking the chance of getting something good when the percentage is so low of that happening.

 

[DeletedUser7951]

, if a person does this they want to win one of the 4 main prizes

or they do it cos it was an easy daily and they don't care about that prize, the other option was probably worse.

My point is why bother doing the Dq when most of the time you will far better rewards just by doing your normal daily routine.

I think most players do it when it fits into the daily routine, then there's those that does it for the challenge, not the prizes.

As for being high odds for he 5FP reward, a lot of people by lottery tickets and gets nothing. Yet they continue doing so week after week, year after year. Here you are guaranteed a prize without much input.

I'd still like to get rid of those insane produce xyz amout of 4/8h production. The 5-15 and hour I can live with, boring as they are. The others = skip.

 

[xivarmy]

i've won (and hope for) the 100 FP prize quite a few times. I view the chest as a weighted average and slightly more valuable than the 100% of 30 FP chest (35 FP if i remember right). It's one of the good ones atm, so I'd really prefer not to ask them to change the ones i actually like! And spending 18 FP isn't a penalty - it's not like i'm 'paying 18 FP', those FP are going into something I would've spent it on anyways!

About the only thing I'd like to see is new chests for some of the events that have come and gone since DCs were introduced. Of the set chests only cherry set still gets me motivated. Some people would like to see a chance to get their last upgrade for events that are now a year old and obviously not having the building as returning (forge bowl 2018).

The tasks are "fine". I do skip it sometimes because of them, but they're all reasonably doable if I'm motivated to do so with about 12 production buildings (something I've made sure I have in my live cities since DC went live).

 

[DeletedUser9410]

Thanks so far folks, this is what i was hoping for, other people's constructive views on it.

Some people would like to see a chance to get their last upgrade for events that are now a year old

This is another point about it that i have seen a few people comment on as well. More chances of upgrades for event buildings from previous events, instead of old buildings which i think most players wont use. As in the example above, i love the Oasis as well as the Fishing Hut. But i wont place them because there are better smaller buildings now. The only thing i would like there is the Tigers Den for the Attack boost it gives.

I'd still like to get rid of those insane produce xyz amout of 4/8h production. The 5-15 and hour I can live with, boring as they are. The others = skip.

I agree, some of the production requests really are insane.

 

[dpghost]

I would like to add the negotiate without the option for a fight
It is awful - I would choose to fight, but only negotiate is available

 

[DeletedUser9410]

Folks i need to apologize.

I DID look to see if there was a similar discussion but could not find one.
However by accident, i did this morning find one under the feedback thread.
That one was started in Aug last year, has 65 pages of comments ( i assume it was when DQ started ) and Inno has ( it seems ) turned a blind eye to it, so i think it's safe for one to assume it's not going to be changed any time soon and those of us who would like to see changes made need to accept that this is highly unlikely.
Thank you for your input i appreciate the comments made.

 

[DeletedUser9643]

Well, your example in your first post needs to be seen differently: In average you win almost 33 FP ((35*5 FP + 30*20FP + 20*50FP + 15*100FP) / 100 . So in this case you need to spend less resources than you get.
Of course there are other examples, where you get e.g. a few resources and need to solve a very complex negotiation. In this case the relationship does not fit indeed. I think it should be enough to skip those. There are not so many like them.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well, your example in your first post needs to be seen differently: In average you win almost 33 FP ((35*5 FP + 30*20FP + 20*50FP + 15*100FP) / 100 . So in this case you need to spend less resources than you get.

in that example he spends ZERO FP to the DC

he uses the FP in his normal game play

would be differently if the DC wants that the FP are paid to the DC

like coins/supplies that are paid in the DC
negotiations are also directly spend to the DC and lost
even goods to the guild treasury are for most players like they would give them directly to the DC (because in the treasury they are not needed)

but spending FP is normal game play and done anyway

btw in all calculations there should also be the big prize considered
so doing any DC gives 2 FP more on average
(1/7 * 30% * 50 FP)

 

[DeletedUser9410]

in that example he spends ZERO FP to the DC

he uses the FP in his normal game play

would be differently if the DC wants that the FP are paid to the DC

like coins/supplies that are paid in the DC
negotiations are also directly spend to the DC and lost
even goods to the guild treasury are for most players like they would give them directly to the DC (because in the treasury they are not needed)

but spending FP is normal game play and done anyway

This is how i see it as well.
In some instances you dont lose anything because you would have spent it anyway, But in others you do lose as the odds of winning a "decent" prize are so very low. Iv seen odds where you have to do 5 or more tasks ( including acquiring map sectors, ( something you wouldnt normally do as they might force you to advance too far ) giving DC coins and/or supplies, negotiating ( lost goods ) lots of 8 or 24 hr productions ( time consuming ) and the chance of winning the main prize are 5% but the chance of winning a palm tree are 70%.

And this is my argument. (A) Get RID of the palm trees and (B) even the percentages out more.

 

[DeletedUser9410]

Well, your example in your first post needs to be seen differently: In average you win almost 33 FP ((35*5 FP + 30*20FP + 20*50FP + 15*100FP) / 100 . So in this case you need to spend less resources than you get.

This i still dont understand. Where do you get 33 FP ? I only see 5, 20, 50 or 100. That says to me i have the chance of getting 1 of those. Not an average of those, but 1 of those specifically.

 

[DeletedUser9410]

Thanks to some of the comments i do look at it in a different way now, so i guess i will just work out which ones i like and do those and skip the others. I very much doubt that Inno will ever change it so will just have to live with it as it is.

 

[xivarmy]

This i still dont understand. Where do you get 33 FP ? I only see 5, 20, 50 or 100. That says to me i have the chance of getting 1 of those. Not an average of those, but 1 of those specifically.

The point is you're going to keep playing the game and doing DCs when they suit you. So the expectation value of the choice of that chest becomes relevant over time. Sometimes you get 100. Sometimes you get 5. On average you get a bit over 30.

 

[Emberguard]

@CaptainJackSparrow you get anything upto 24 FPs for free every 24 hrs. So spend 18 FPs doesn't cost you anything other then timing when you log on unless you open up FP packs

Lets say you only log in once a day - that's still only 8 FPs you'd need to supply yourself. If you guild town hall produces 2 FPs then that reduces it down to 6FPs. If you've entered a single event chances are you'd have at least 3 FPs from event buildings, more the further along you are in the game.


I do agree there are areas the DC could potentially be re-balanced in terms of what it needs for what it gives - however FPs are not one of them.

Now getting a DC chest that's 100% supplies and needing the most complex negotiation to obtain the prize, that's something that would have an argument for rebalancing. BUT it does also count towards the 7 chest counter, so it still gives /something/ for the return even if it's not in the immediate future.

This i still dont understand. Where do you get 33 FP ? I only see 5, 20, 50 or 100. That says to me i have the chance of getting 1 of those. Not an average of those, but 1 of those specifically.

Saying it's a average of X per chest is simply measuring your total FP income in the long run assuming you're going to keep doing that DC whenever it pops up. Individually you might be getting more 5s and 20s then anything. But that still leaves 35% chance of something better then the 30FP chest, and 65% chance of getting more then the 10FPs most chests produce.

So while the 30FP chest has a set value that's easy to determine, the average of the random is what we'd consider the value of trying at the random chest if we were always getting those two chests pop up


Let's say we get 100 chests of each

30FP chest: 3000 FPs

Random FPs (because there's a hundred chests and the percentage adds up to a hundred, each percentage point = 1 chest on average)
(100 x 15) = 1500
(50 x 20) = 1000
(20 x 30) = 600
(5 x 35) = 175
Total estimate: 3,275FPs / 100 chests = 32.75 (or 33FP average)

The chance is close enough that it's not going to make a huge difference which of the two I choose if they're both the chests of the day. If I'm skipping a lot of DCs because I deem the tasks too skewed in a aspect for my city to complete then I'd be better off going for the 30 so when i do complete it I've got a guaranteed amount - the random is only better if you're doing a lot of FP chests. if you're only doing a few over a long stretch of time then you're more likely to end up empty handed

or they do it cos it was an easy daily and they don't care about that prize, the other option was probably worse.

I think most players do it when it fits into the daily routine, then there's those that does it for the challenge, not the prizes.

As for being high odds for he 5FP reward, a lot of people by lottery tickets and gets nothing. Yet they continue doing so week after week, year after year. Here you are guaranteed a prize without much input.

I'd still like to get rid of those insane produce xyz amout of 4/8h production. The 5-15 and hour I can live with, boring as they are. The others = skip.

I prefer the 4/8hrs to the 5/15/1hr ones. I'm already producing 8 hr productions and 4 hr is easy enough to set up. 5mins? Zzzzz

 

[DeletedUser9410]

@ Emberguard, ah now i understand it better.
As i said earlier, i was sure i was looking at it the wrong way, now i see the bigger picture.
Still hope they re-balance it a bit in the future but at least i'm much happier now.
Thank you very much for the detailed explanation.
Greatly appreciated.